Can Percom or ATR8000 use 1.2MB 5.25" drives?

[erichenneke]

I have a Fujitsu M2553K03B 1.2MB 5.25" drive that I'd like to use in my Percom AT88-S1PD or attach to my ATR-8000.

 

Does anyone know if a drive like that is supported by either the Percom or the ATR-8000?  

 

One issue I see is that there are no physical jumpers on the Fujitsu M2553K03B to set the drive number.  So not sure how to tell the Percom (or ATR-8000) that it should be drive 1 or 2, etc. 

 

I searched around and couldn't find anything on this topic so thought I'd post the question.   Appreciate any insights. 

 

Thanks!

-Eric

 

[BillC]

22 minutes ago, erichenneke said:

I have a Fujitsu M2553K03B 1.2MB 5.25" drive that I'd like to use in my Percom AT88-S1PD or attach to my ATR-8000.

 

Does anyone know if a drive like that is supported by either the Percom or the ATR-8000?  

 

One issue I see is that there are no physical jumpers on the Fujitsu M2553K03B to set the drive number.  So not sure how to tell the Percom (or ATR-8000) that it should be drive 1 or 2, etc. 

 

I searched around and couldn't find anything on this topic so thought I'd post the question.   Appreciate any insights. 

 

Thanks!

-Eric

 

I doubt that either a PERCOM or ATR8000 can use 1.2MB drives at full capacity, though they may if it can be configured to 720KB mode.

The only Atari FDD interface I am aware of capable of accessing HD disks at full capacity is the Black Box Floppy Board.

 

Here is a link to a manual for the Fujitsu M255xk series, it shows images of different PCBs but the Revision 3 image appears to indicate the configuration jumpers are fixed rather than adjustable.

https://www.manualslib.com/download/1612393/Fujitsu-M255xk.html

[moonlight_mile]

I think I have read somewhere that you can use it with the atr-8000 and you need to format it as an 8inch drive. (77 tracks). I think that gives you close to 1meg on the disk but I have never done it. 

[erichenneke]

On 5/7/2021 at 5:56 AM, moonlight_mile said:

I think I have read somewhere that you can use it with the atr-8000 and you need to format it as an 8inch drive. (77 tracks). I think that gives you close to 1meg on the disk but I have never done it. 

Would love to know how you really go about doing that step by step.  I assume I'd need to boot off a different disk/drive first with mydos and configure the 1.2MB drive that way first?  I haven't used a lot of drive combos other than standard 5.25" DD drives with the PERCOM or ATR8000 in the past, so this is new to me. 

[moonlight_mile]

Would love to know how you really go about doing that step by step.  I assume I'd need to boot off a different disk/drive first with mydos and configure the 1.2MB drive that way first?  I haven't used a lot of drive combos other than standard 5.25" DD drives with the PERCOM or ATR8000 in the past, so this is new to me. 

Like I said I have never done it but my guess would be, boot into spartados 3.x or sdx with a regular drive. Then run either xinit or format and choose the 77 tracks and it should work.

At least that is how I would go about it if I was to do it.

I am not 100% on the mydos side of format but I think you would have to manually set the drive parameters as a 77 track drive before formatting it.

[+Nezgar]

On 5/7/2021 at 4:56 AM, moonlight_mile said:

I think I have read somewhere that you can use it with the atr-8000 and you need to format it as an 8inch drive. (77 tracks). I think that gives you close to 1meg on the disk but I have never done it. 

I can confirm, as I did this myself with an ATR8000, at least with a 1.44MB 3.5" mech BITD using SpartaDOS 3.2 XINIT or SpartaDOS X - formatting as Double side, double density, 77 tracks. Not sure how a 1.2MB drive would differ.

 

The ATR-8000 didn't support any highspeed SIO, so it took bloody forever to read or write 1MB of data to such a disk. Plus dont ever forget to remove a disk from a drive when you power the ATR-8000 on/off or it will blast away whatever sector(s) happen to be under the head. I was spoiled by the speed of an MIO+hard drive by that time so quickly moved on.

[DavidMil]

There is a gentleman here in Houston that hooked up an an 8" drive to one of his ATR8000's and he said that he used a calendar to record

the data transfer rate.  Sometimes we learn things the hard way don't we Nezgar...

 

DavidMil 

[Dr Memory]

You can indeed use 1.2 MB 5.25" floppies on an ATR8000.  We used to call them 8" emulators for reasons lost to time.  I used to use 4 of them on my 8 bit BBS.

 

Alas, the only detail I remember about getting them to work was that I had to use mydos.  I think it may have been a special version of mydos - like one that came with the ATR8000 - but I'm sure you can just Google for it and download it nowadays.

[moonlight_mile]

Funny thing. The 2nd Atr I got a few months ago. It came with cp/m (and I think Atari) 8inch disks!

I posted a pic of them on one of the other atr-8000 threads.

I actually use the 720k 3.5 inch drive that came internal to my STF and an old Mitsubishi 360k (the ones with the push button to release the disk) on my Atr.

I have at least 4 dead drives that are used as bookends. If anyone wants them just let me know. All you have to do is pay for shipping.

I really would love to find the white face Mitsubishi 720k 5.25 drives. That is what my bbs ran on for a very long time. But I think I have seen 1 of those pop up on eBay and it was in unworking condition. I have a enough bookends. Lol.

Oh by the way if anyone has an extra blanking plate from a Percom drive (the metal piece to covert the circuit board) I would be interested in it. My RFD44-s2 is missing one.

I know it was taken off for ventilation (it had. Monster size noisy fan bolted to the back) but I am not running my drives for more than an hour or so, so heat really isn’t that big of a concern.

[Dr Memory]

Looks like I was using MYDOS 3.18, ATR8000 RS232 Version.  So it was a special version.  Worked fine.

 

The ATR8000 allowed me to use the four 8-inch emulators, an Epson printer (old school dot matrix) and a US Robotics modem.  The modem was freaking expensive for the time but supposedly had a lifetime guarantee, where they would keep upgrading me to new versions.  Naturally, they totally abandoned that and vanished when the BBS scene died.  Anyway, just wanted to provide the details on the MYDOS version needed.

[ACML]

I used MYDOS to format the 1.2MB 5 1.4" as 77 track DSDD disks yielding about 1000 KB.  It thinks its an 8" floppy.

 

[Kyle22]

The ATR-8000 is a beautiful and under developed machine. Easy changes in the EPROM could enable UltraSpeed SIO. Also, the RS-232 speed can be improved, as well.

 

[erichenneke]

7 hours ago, ACML said:

I used MYDOS to format the 1.2MB 5 1.4" as 77 track DSDD disks yielding about 1000 KB.  It thinks its an 8" floppy.

 

The 1.2MB 5.25" drive that I have doesn't seem to have any easily adjustable jumpers to select the drive number though.  That's the piece I'm still a bit unsure about now.   

 

Drive is a Fujitsu M2553K03B.  I do see some ref designators on the PCB silk screen markings for DS0 - DS3, but no jumper terminals or jumper blocks.  It looks like a solder bridge is set on DS1 position as the "permanent" default.  If I hook that up to the ATR-8000 as-is, would that show up as the 2nd drive to the Atari/MyDOS? 

 

 

[glurk]

erichenneke-

Yeah, that is set up as DS1 (drive select 1) and the master should be DS0.  I just got done desoldering and resoldering pads like that on a 3.5" drive which has no jumpers, and I was lucky to have on that even has the pads.  Your drive that can be set as 0, 1, 2, or 3 by switching that solder bridge.

[erichenneke]

Ok, so i connected the 1.2M 5.25" drive to my ATR 8000 and it seems to show good signs of life.  It spins up, and responds(spins) to MYDOS commands attempting to access drive D2:

 

However, I am not sure exactly how to configure this thing.

 

Should I use option P to set density on drive D2?

 

And when I select option O to Chang Config., it asks me...

Remove Drive (I assume answer is No)

Is Drive Configurable (I assume answer is Yes)

Is Drive High Capacity (I assume answer is Yes?)

Then it asks for the size in Sectors.   What's the answer here?   

I know everyone in this thread said 77 tracks should work, but it isn't asking me for tracks, it is asking me for sectors.   What's the answer?

 

Then it will want to know the step.   Not sure about that answer either.

 

Can someone tell me the exact step by step way to use MyDos to configure this thing?

 

It seems I am close, but as-is when I try to format D2: using the I option in MyDOS the drive spins momentarily and then I get error 133.  So clearly I don't have it configured properly yet.

 

Thank you!

-Eric

[moonlight_mile]

I could be wrong but I think I read Atari uses 18 sectors per track 18*40 tracks =720

So I would think it would be 18x77 (x2 if double sided)

1386 per side?

That would be my guess. Or boot up Sparta dos in an emulator and try formatting a 77 track disk image with xinit.

[ACML]

I think a DSDD 8" is 26 sectors per side per track, 77 tracks and 256 bytes per sector.

 

That means there is 52 total tracks (26x2 sides) * 77 tracks * 256 bytes/track = 1025,024 bytes

 

[a8isa1]

On 5/7/2021 at 1:54 AM, erichenneke said:

I have a Fujitsu M2553K03B 1.2MB 5.25" drive that I'd like to use in my Percom AT88-S1PD or attach to my ATR-8000.

 

Does anyone know if a drive like that is supported by either the Percom or the ATR-8000?  

 

One issue I see is that there are no physical jumpers on the Fujitsu M2553K03B to set the drive number.  So not sure how to tell the Percom (or ATR-8000) that it should be drive 1 or 2, etc. 

 

I searched around and couldn't find anything on this topic so thought I'd post the question.   Appreciate any insights. 

 

Thanks!

-Eric

 

Yep, 1.2 MB drives on the ATR8000 format to 4004 sectors.  

 

I tried to write a procedure to make it  easy to setup a 1.2 MB drive but the ATR8000 is so quirky in a single drive configuration that I didn't come up with instructions for all the things that can and often do go wrong.  Below is basically what happens if the process goes smoothly.

 

I'm using FujiNet in this example because nothing else I still own wanted cooperate, not SDrive-MAX (homebrew), SIO2PC cable, swapping drive mechs

 

It's easier if one is able to change the drive the drive select but hopefully this will work for your situation

 

Leave the drive and the ATR8000 powered off. Boot Atari w/ MyDOS 4.53/4 using FujiNet.  My was plugged directly into the ATR8000 because cables won't stay plugged into the fujinet 1.0 passthru SIO port.

 

While the Fujinet is still attached use MyDOS option O - Change Config.   Use it twice (because it works more reliably).  Once to remove drive 1 then again with the 1.2MB drive parameters which are:

 

Drive Number: 1

Remove Drive: N

Is drive configurable? Y

High capacity drive: N

I drive double sided? Y

Tracks/side? 77

Step rate:  3

 

When I hit enter I should se under the MyDOS title the following:

 

Disks 1S=

 

'=' signifies a double sided disk.  'S' signifies Single density.  Disk is not formatted yet so 'S' is assumed

 

UNPLUG FUJINET.  Power up disk.  Insert diskette.  Power up ATR8000.

 

I try to change density with command 'P'

 

'P' and then '1,D' which is drive 1, double density

 

If it works then great but ften the density won't change.  This seems to be one of those ATR8000/MyDOS quirks.  I go ahead and format the disk.

 

If it formatted in single density I use the 'P' command again.  Density should change this time.  Format the disk again.

 

If while formatting I hear the stepper motor has a regular cadence then all is well.   If there's one sound and very long pause before the next sound then something is not right.  Probably have to start over

 

If formatting, in double density, is successful then write DOS to the disk, MyDOS option 'H'

 

Test by booting the computer.  No need to reset the ATR8000.

 

Hang onto that disk.

 

Note: I had to unplug my FujiNet 1.0 during the process. With FujiNet version 1.4 and up perhaps one can just switch it off.

 

Configuring a drive is much easier if the drive select of the ATR8000's drive can be set to DS1 (aka D2:).    Usually I can just set the drive parameter and format.   No issues at all or far fewer issues at least.

 

Well, that's it for my re-visit to setting up a 1.2 MB drive on the ATR8000.   Eric, I hope it works for you as well.

 

Regard,

 

SteveS

[erichenneke]

8 hours ago, a8isa1 said:

Yep, 1.2 MB drives on the ATR8000 format to 4004 sectors.  

 

I tried to write a procedure to make it  easy to setup a 1.2 MB drive but the ATR8000 is so quirky in a single drive configuration that I didn't come up with instructions for all the things that can and often do go wrong.  Below is basically what happens if the process goes smoothly.

 

I'm using FujiNet in this example because nothing else I still own wanted cooperate, not SDrive-MAX (homebrew), SIO2PC cable, swapping drive mechs

 

It's easier if one is able to change the drive the drive select but hopefully this will work for your situation

 

Leave the drive and the ATR8000 powered off. Boot Atari w/ MyDOS 4.53/4 using FujiNet.  My was plugged directly into the ATR8000 because cables won't stay plugged into the fujinet 1.0 passthru SIO port.

 

While the Fujinet is still attached use MyDOS option O - Change Config.   Use it twice (because it works more reliably).  Once to remove drive 1 then again with the 1.2MB drive parameters which are:

 

Drive Number: 1

Remove Drive: N

Is drive configurable? Y

High capacity drive: N

I drive double sided? Y

Tracks/side? 77

Step rate:  3

 

When I hit enter I should se under the MyDOS title the following:

 

Disks 1S=

 

'=' signifies a double sided disk.  'S' signifies Single density.  Disk is not formatted yet so 'S' is assumed

 

UNPLUG FUJINET.  Power up disk.  Insert diskette.  Power up ATR8000.

 

I try to change density with command 'P'

 

'P' and then '1,D' which is drive 1, double density

 

If it works then great but ften the density won't change.  This seems to be one of those ATR8000/MyDOS quirks.  I go ahead and format the disk.

 

If it formatted in single density I use the 'P' command again.  Density should change this time.  Format the disk again.

 

If while formatting I hear the stepper motor has a regular cadence then all is well.   If there's one sound and very long pause before the next sound then something is not right.  Probably have to start over

 

If formatting, in double density, is successful then write DOS to the disk, MyDOS option 'H'

 

Test by booting the computer.  No need to reset the ATR8000.

 

Hang onto that disk.

 

Note: I had to unplug my FujiNet 1.0 during the process. With FujiNet version 1.4 and up perhaps one can just switch it off.

 

Configuring a drive is much easier if the drive select of the ATR8000's drive can be set to DS1 (aka D2:).    Usually I can just set the drive parameter and format.   No issues at all or far fewer issues at least.

 

Well, that's it for my re-visit to setting up a 1.2 MB drive on the ATR8000.   Eric, I hope it works for you as well.

 

Regard,

 

SteveS

really appreciate the help, but still not working for me!

 

My 1.2MB drive is already set to DS1 ( D2: ) in terms of the defaulted "jumper" settings.  So it is spinning up and attempting to do stuff as drive D2:

 

That said, I still just get an Error 133 each time I try to format the drive. Even after removing it with option O in MyDos 4.5, and adding it back in with Option O and configuring per your setting you provided.   Still not working.   It spins, makes a bad noise, and then gives Error 133.

 

Also, just to be clear, I am booting MyDos off of an actual floppy disk in a 1050 drive as D1: 

 

The only other disk drive I have connected is the 1.2MB 5.25" drive connected at the end of a cable on the ATR 8000 (my cable only has one connector on each end, one connected to the ATR8000 and the other connected tot he 1.2MB 5.25" drive) which is set on the drive mech as DS1.

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by erichenneke

[ACML]

On 5/10/2021 at 12:15 AM, erichenneke said:

T

 

By looking at your photo, the resister termination block appears to be there (just right of DS jumpers).  I remember that the resister termination block has to be only on the last drive in the ATR-8000 chain.  What's the FG, J2 and L1 blocks for?  DS1 should be D2: I guess.  Maybe some of the empty solder pads are for components that were needed for the ATR-8000 BITD and the new drives just left them off.

 

 

[a8isa1]

6 hours ago, ACML said:

By looking at your photo, the resister termination block appears to be there (just right of DS jumpers).  I remember that the resister termination block has to be only on the last drive in the ATR-8000 chain.  What's the FG, J2 and L1 blocks for?  DS1 should be D2: I guess.  Maybe some of the empty solder pads are for components that were needed for the ATR-8000 BITD and the new drives just left them off.

 

 

That drive is configured for use on a PC.  IBM originally set both floppy drives to DS1 and used a *flip* in the cable for the second drive.

 

You could desolder the holes and install dip switches. 

 

The ATR8000 designates the drive with DS0 selected as Atari D1:

 

-SteveS

 

p.s. The drive after the flip in the cable was probably the first drive on a PC.  (It's been a long time.  Memory sketchy)

Edited May 14, 2021 by a8isa1

[erichenneke]

By looking at your photo, the resister termination block appears to be there (just right of DS jumpers).  I remember that the resister termination block has to be only on the last drive in the ATR-8000 chain.  What's the FG, J2 and L1 blocks for?  DS1 should be D2: I guess.  Maybe some of the empty solder pads are for components that were needed for the ATR-8000 BITD and the new drives just left them off.
 
 

FG is related to DC grounding. I'm going to try to connect it and see if it makes a difference. I know the ATR8000 manual is clear that only devices that can be grounded can be used with the ATR8000. So MAYBE this is relevant, worth a try.

I'm not sure what J2 or L1 do.

Sent from my E6533 using Tapatalk

[Dr Memory]

On 5/13/2021 at 10:01 PM, erichenneke said:

Also, just to be clear, I am booting MyDos off of an actual floppy disk in a 1050 drive as D1:

Are you using the specific version of MyDos I described in an earlier post?  That was the only one I was ever able to get working properly on my ATR8000, back when I had it.  That would be "MYDOS 3.18, ATR8000 RS232 Version".

 

[Defender II]

My brother used a brand new 1.2MB drive when they first came out on his ATR-8000 in the eighties. He also used 5.25" quad-drives and 8" drives. I don't know what DOS he used, but remember that he ran some CPM software as well.

 

 

[erichenneke]

2 hours ago, Dr Memory said:

Are you using the specific version of MyDos I described in an earlier post?  That was the only one I was ever able to get working properly on my ATR8000, back when I had it.  That would be "MYDOS 3.18, ATR8000 RS232 Version".

 

Actually I was using MyDOS 3.116 ATR8000 RS232 Version, and I also tried 4.53

 

I'll hunt down that specific MYDOS 3.18 ATR8000 RS232 Version and give that a try. 

 

-Eric