Can Percom or ATR8000 use 1.2MB 5.25" drives?

[Dr Memory]

It may be that another version that says "ATR8000 RS232 Version" would work, don't know, sorry.  If it doesn't, I recommend tracking down the one I suggested as I know that for sure worked on an ATR8000 with 1.2MB drives.

 

Mathy's MyDos page has it:

 

https://www.mathyvannisselroy.nl/mydos.htm

https://www.mathyvannisselroy.nl/mydos318.arc

 

Some other versions on that page that might be helpful as well, like the builders.  For example, this one claims to be able to build the 3.18 ATR8000 version:

 

https://www.mathyvannisselroy.nl/bm301318.arc

 

I never used that - don't think I had it back in the old days, but it's a different era now. 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Dr Memory
added info

[+Nezgar]

On 5/13/2021 at 11:01 PM, erichenneke said:

Still not working.   It spins, makes a bad noise, and then gives Error 133.

Maybe stating the obvious, but are you using known good HD media? (Not DD media). Usually 1.2MB HD disks have no hub ring.

[erichenneke]

On 5/23/2021 at 2:11 AM, Nezgar said:

Maybe stating the obvious, but are you using known good HD media? (Not DD media). Usually 1.2MB HD disks have no hub ring.

Wow. This is a "smack my forehead moment".

I had never thought about the actual media needing to be anything higher than DD because, well, I never associated HD media with Atari 8 bits before.

Totally makes sense of course!

And, yep, it works fine with 1.2MB HD media.

Duh!

Thank you for stating the obvious. Sometimes it needs to be stated!

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by erichenneke

[glurk]

erichenneke-

Hey, could you please post some specifics on HOW you got this to work?  With the Percom or the ATR8000?  Or both?  What settings?  What DOS? and etc., etc. etc...  This could be helpful to other people too, if it were explained a bit more.  I know it would be helpful to me, LOL!!

 

Thanks!

 

[erichenneke]

5 hours ago, glurk said:

erichenneke-

Hey, could you please post some specifics on HOW you got this to work?  With the Percom or the ATR8000?  Or both?  What settings?  What DOS? and etc., etc. etc...  This could be helpful to other people too, if it were explained a bit more.  I know it would be helpful to me, LOL!!

 

Thanks!

 

Yep, no problem...

 

Using the ATR8000

Attached the Fujitsu M2553K03B 1.2MB 5.25" drive to the ATR8000

The M2553K03B has a soldered jumper in place for DS1 as the default (which identifies it as drive 2 to the Atari setup).  I just left it that way and referenced it as drive 2. 

Then I used MYDOS 4.50 

and the following...

DOS option "O" (change config)

Drive Number: 2

Remove Drive: Y

DOS option "O" (change config)

Drive Number: 2

Remove Drive: N

Is drive configurable? Y

High capacity drive: N

I drive double sided? Y

Tracks/side? 77

Step rate:  3

Then I formatted a HD floppy in drive 2 (the Fujistu M2553K03B attached to the ATR8000) 

It shows 3991 free sectors after formatting. 

See photos...

 

 

 

 

 

[erichenneke]

9 hours ago, erichenneke said:

Yep, no problem...

 

Using the ATR8000

Attached the Fujitsu M2553K03B 1.2MB 5.25" drive to the ATR8000

The M2553K03B has a soldered jumper in place for DS1 as the default (which identifies it as drive 2 to the Atari setup).  I just left it that way and referenced it as drive 2. 

Then I used MYDOS 4.50 

and the following...

DOS option "O" (change config)

Drive Number: 2

Remove Drive: Y

DOS option "O" (change config)

Drive Number: 2

Remove Drive: N

Is drive configurable? Y

High capacity drive: N

I drive double sided? Y

Tracks/side? 77

Step rate:  3

Then I formatted a HD floppy in drive 2 (the Fujistu M2553K03B attached to the ATR8000) 

It shows 3991 free sectors after formatting. 

See photos...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just adding one more screen shot which also shows the MyDOS version details at the top...

 

 

By the way, I copied a bunch of file content to one of these HD floppies and it seemed like a bottomless pit that would never fill up!  Almost like having a hard-drive. 

But it does take a while of course.   

 

Wish I would have had one of these back in the day when I ran my BBS... it would have been terrific for making a TON of files available for download without requiring a super expensive hard-drive.  I remember the HD-capacity floppy drives were just coming out around the time I was running my BBS, but of course they weren't exactly cheap at that time either!   

 

 

 

 

[Bee]

I have a 10mb scsi floppy and 20 disks.  It was good for it's time but was buggy.  Meaning it worked or failed on boot, from the same media.  I think I had it set up on an A8, an ST and an Amiga.

 

 

[erichenneke]

OK, I do have a different, but related question back to Percom drives. 

 

I looked around in other threads and other information (and went through the manuals multiple times) and still having this issue.

 

I have a "set" of Percom RFD drives (a mother/controller drive unit and the slave drive unit).  Both units still have their original full-height 5.25" floppy drive mechanisms in them (both are full height).

RFD40S1 (main mother/controller Percom unit)

RFD40A1 (Percom slave unit)

 

Generally, I have them working now for the most part, but something is not right.  It seems they are functional, but something isn't connected or configured quite right. 

 

I have them set up where the mother/controller drive is drive 1 to the atari, and the slave is drive 2.

I have the terminator chip REMOVED on the mother/controller unit.

I have the terminator chip INSTALLED on the slave unit.

I have the back dip switch block (on the rear portion of the mother unit controller card) set to 4=off, 3=off, 2=on, 1=on  (per the manual, this should be DD default for both drive 1 and 2, and also make the controller drive default to drive 1).

I have the jumper chip on the slave unit drive mechanism board set with the proper pins to identify it as location 2.

 

If I boot up using a 1050 drive for example, and then swap my IO cables to the percoms, everything seems to work pretty well.  Meaning that the first Percom drive (mother/controller drive) works when you reference drive 1 and the second Percom unit (slave drive) works when you reference drive 2.   Ok, great, that seems to work as it should.

 

BUT, if I reboot my Atari system with the Percom mother/controller connected to SIO cable as drive one and the slave Percom unit as drive 2 (with a formatted bootable disk in Percom drive 1 of course) thing go bonkers.  It boots for a little while and sounds/seems normal, but then after the first pause it does something weird, it starts spinning BOTH Percom drives at the same time and seems like it is trying to read from both of them concurrently. The booting sounds start to sound terrible, and clearly something is not right, and it will just stay in this loop forever with both drives spinning, sounding bad, and grinding every once in a while.  It never gets to DOS or READY prompt, and it also never gets an error.  It just keeps spinning both drives and trying to read (seemingly both drives concurrently) and keeps sounding bad and grinding, forever. 

 

Does somebody have a working RFD "set" like this (with an RFD40S1 mother/controller unit and RFD40A1 slave unit) that they could check out all the dip switches, terminator chips, and jumpers on both units and tell me what they are set to exactly?  I am convinced I still don't have something right with the terminator chip, or the dip switch block on the main controller unit, or the jumper chip on the slave unit, or maybe even the jumper chip on the mother/controller unit mechanism.   I don't know. I've tried to follow the manual exactly and other info I've found, but there are still some things that don't seem crystal clear so good chance I still have something wrong. 

 

That would REALLY help if someone could share that info from a known working "set" of Percom RFD drives.

 

Thank you!!!

-Eric

 

 

[Kyle22]

On 5/17/2021 at 6:51 PM, Defender II said:

My brother used a brand new 1.2MB drive when they first came out on his ATR-8000 in the eighties. He also used 5.25" quad-drives and 8" drives. I don't know what DOS he used, but remember that he ran some CPM software as well.

 

 

@Defender II Do you remember if your brother had MAG/Base 3 database for CP/M? I had it BITD and lost it. I have been looking for that for YEARS.

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Kyle22
Typo.

[glurk]

erichenneke-

I have a Percom drive (RFD44-S1) and a "similar" setup, with a PC-style 3.5" drive as the slave drive (set to DS1, as they usually are).  Must use a STRAIGHT cable, no twists!  Both work A-OK, DSDD and all.  Like you, I also managed to put a ton of files on one 720K 3.5" disk.  Here is what works for me.

 

On the master drive, I have all 4 DIP switches set to ON.  Contrary to the docs, but it works.  On start-up, the slave drive must be powered on FIRST, then the master.  Then power the computer.  I also use MyDOS, and set the 3.5" drive to 80 tracks, double-sided, step rate 1.

 

This is all working perfectly for me.  Maybe try all 4 DIP settings to "ON".  Also, my master drive has a shunt, which is like a hardwired DIP switch with no switches, and the only connections are DS0 and HM.  Which is Atari D1: and HM is motor control.

 

The Percoms seem to "motor-on" all attached drives normally, no way around that, I believe.

 

See if this works for you.  Much of the documentation seems to be error-prone.  This setup is what worked for me.

[moonlight_mile]

I spent a pile of time getting my Rfd-44 working a few years ago. Went through a lot but it boiled down to the 6809 went bad. I think it was a heat issue as shoe we had it before myself drilled holes in the back of the case and mounted a noisy fan on the back along with removing the blanking plate.

So if the motor dip switch doesn’t work look into one of the chips.

[erichenneke]

9 hours ago, glurk said:

erichenneke-

I have a Percom drive (RFD44-S1) and a "similar" setup, with a PC-style 3.5" drive as the slave drive (set to DS1, as they usually are).  Must use a STRAIGHT cable, no twists!  Both work A-OK, DSDD and all.  Like you, I also managed to put a ton of files on one 720K 3.5" disk.  Here is what works for me.

 

On the master drive, I have all 4 DIP switches set to ON.  Contrary to the docs, but it works.  On start-up, the slave drive must be powered on FIRST, then the master.  Then power the computer.  I also use MyDOS, and set the 3.5" drive to 80 tracks, double-sided, step rate 1.

 

This is all working perfectly for me.  Maybe try all 4 DIP settings to "ON".  Also, my master drive has a shunt, which is like a hardwired DIP switch with no switches, and the only connections are DS0 and HM.  Which is Atari D1: and HM is motor control.

 

The Percoms seem to "motor-on" all attached drives normally, no way around that, I believe.

 

See if this works for you.  Much of the documentation seems to be error-prone.  This setup is what worked for me.

thanks, will try that.  Eventually I want to put a 3.5" in the mix anyway, but first I'd like to see it all working correctly in the "stock" state before I introduce new modifications. 

 

[erichenneke]

11 minutes ago, moonlight_mile said:

I spent a pile of time getting my Rfd-44 working a few years ago. Went through a lot but it boiled down to the 6809 went bad. I think it was a heat issue as shoe we had it before myself drilled holes in the back of the case and mounted a noisy fan on the back along with removing the blanking plate.

So if the motor dip switch doesn’t work look into one of the chips.

thanks, will look at that too.  Hoping nothing is actually "wrong" with the drives and I just have something in the configuration/settings it doesn't like.  Going to exhaust that first. Good to know though.

[Defender II]

On 7/25/2021 at 10:29 PM, Kyle22 said:

@Defender II Do you remember if your brother had MAG/Base 3 database for CP/M? I had it BITD and lost it. I have been looking for that for YEARS.

 

Not as far as I remember. He still has some original ATR8000 CP/M disks that he can't read since he sold the drive they recommended.