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1K3 games in 1 GB image = 1 GB hard disk space


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 This is something I'm working on in last 3 weeks, or better said in last 13 years. So, putting  all those hard disk adaptations which I released in last 13 years, and are available on 8bitchip site. There are diverse images with plenty of games online. This one aims most of games on small storage size. Yes, that's 1 GB - as limit of Basic ACSI hard disk protocol, or as limit of internal ACSI-SCSI adapter what was by factory in Atari Mega STE and Stacy. In those times that was pretty large capacity.  Of course, today it's far from being impressive or expensive, but still, for Atari SW it is plenty of space.

So, I worked on putting as much as possible games (hard disk adapted, installable) in 1 GB partition - yes, that's possible with my iTOS. Knowing that it will need some changes by older game adaptations. Changes are done with common files D15R*.FIC - which are some kind of DLL files. For easier usage, I included them with every game DL. But there is simple way that all it can access it from one location:  C:\GAMEX - what is mentioned in instructions too. So, if disk space is tight, users just can delete it from game's DIR, and it will be loaded from that System DIR. And it is same with files HAGA, HAGE ...  Can save plenty of space, like over 100 MB in case of 1300 games.

I copied games with removed those above mentioned D15R*, HAGA and like files into single 1 GB partition. And after did it for about 70 % if was clear that will not fit more than 1250 (rough estimation) .  While sum of all file sizes, when all it is copied in is not over 850 MB. Why ? Because  so called slack - FAT filesystem  (FAT16 in case of hard disks) means that there is minimal size what some shortest, short file will take on drive - and it is in this case 16 KB - like for 1 byte long file.

And that means a lot in case if Atari SW, where we have  lot of short files.  Btw. it is less with smaller partitions, so it is 8 KB in case of 256-511 partition under iTOS, or 128-255 MB under regular TOS 1.04-4.02 .   So, I decided to try with 4x 255 MB partitions. And it worked - much more fits. Actually about 1350 games.

That's not all what is on DL page  (little over 1400), but I discarded very long variants (like Xenon 2 with audio tracks (32 MB), some older not so compatible  ones ...) .

That minimal size is called cluster, and is 4 KB instead 16 KB with 4x smaller partition size - gain is about 150 MB in this case.

 

It looks like: 1k3g1GB.thumb.png.7571aeaf6163228ce3ef1319f4163a7f.png

 

And I used possibility to give custom drive names - here  obviously they are composed of begin letters of file name DIRectories. Total 27 (letters + 0 for those starting with number) .  And there is some free space in each partition for state saves.

Hey, where is letter F ?  This is done in Steem Debugger, where F is GEMDOS drive, so G is letter for fourth logical drive. On real Atari it will be F .

For those who already got iTOS from me here is DL of not complete image:  http://atari.8bitchip.info/TestMe/Gamit4pFin1.zip

166 MB. Only last partition. 369 games. Works with all decent ACSI adapters on ST, STE (no TT, Falcon support), Steem with Pasti, Hatari . Even if partition sizes are only 255 MB it needs iTOS - only with it it all fits in 1 GB space (planned 1350 games) . And there are updated DLL like files  for it in C:\GAMEX .

Some may ask: why iTOS ? Look upper 1 line. Beside it, this was needed to be done 3 years after solving real FAT16 in iTOS - now old game adaptations using TOS 1.04 GEMDOS part in RAM are compatible with iTOS and it's more efficient partitions - it is now actually iTOS core in RAM.

Plus, this was good chance to finally put together image with all those  D15R*, HAG* system files present only in shared DIR, according to original idea, and to my rational attitude ?

Final image will be DL-able soon at MediaFire.

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Great work!  An amazing achievement to put all the adaptations you have done for 14 years on one image.

 

Btw, iTOS is highly recommended.  There are many improvements over regular TOS -like having the TOS 2.06 AES (desktop) in TOS 1.04 ROMs with no hardware adapter needed. 

 

You can see it here:  http://8bitchip.info/atari/tosimprgu.html

 

 

Edited by TheNameOfTheGame
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TOS 1.04i or original one go normally in 6 28 pin EPROMs . If want 2 chip version that needs 32 pin EPROMs . What 2 chip v. goes in 28 pin sockets is with factory mask programmed ROM chips, where no programming pins, so can have less pins for 1 Mbit capacity.

So, in case of ST it needs intermediate 32 pin sockets for 2 chip version. + extra HW in case of 2.06, 2.14 - because different address space of that version.

It's usually 1 GAL chip and some soldering.

Easier solution is to use 4x 27C512 EPROMs, which are 28 pin. But it needs additional GAL logic too.

See how it looks here: http://8bitchip.info/atari/tosimav.html

Section  "Solution for TOS 2.14 or original 2.06 with 4x 28 pin EPROM chips - no need for intermediate socket, so will remain low. "

 

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Dang.

 

My Mega ST4 has the 2 chip version and the other 4 ROM places are

not socketed.  Probably above my meager soldering skills without

doing damage.

 

I'll follow your link and look it over though.

 

Thanks.

 

PS Would it be easier just to convert the Mega ST to use 6 chips

instead of 2 and then order your 6 chip set?

 

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16 hours ago, DarkLord said:

Dang.

 

My Mega ST4 has the 2 chip version and the other 4 ROM places are

not socketed.  Probably above my meager soldering skills without

doing damage.

 

I'll follow your link and look it over though.

 

Thanks.

 

PS Would it be easier just to convert the Mega ST to use 6 chips

instead of 2 and then order your 6 chip set?

 

Most of Mega ST-s, which belly I saw were with 2 TOS ROM chips - no wonder, it was 1987 and later. But there are soldering pads near, where can set it to 6 chip mode. And no sockets, yeah. But it is still simpler to add 4 sockets, which all cost under 1 $ than doing 'conversion' to 32 pin. Plus takes no extra space like some board solutions.   To add that I ship EPROMs 27C512, which are double capacity, so place for 2 TOS versions/variants. Max v. is TOS 1.04, and of course that's is what in now minimum for decent work with mass storage.

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I've been trying these games out under Steem SSE 4.1.0 and most of them are working really well.

 

There are many, many games and a menu of some sort would be nice.

 

There is one over on the atari-forum that might work (it runs from the AUTO folder), but maybe you are making your own menu program in the iTOS ROM?

 

https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=295296#p295296

 

 

Also, games that save their progress like Dungeon Master, Captive, Knightmare, etc. - can these be saved to the hard disk or do they need a floppy drive and floppy?

Edited by TheNameOfTheGame
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On 5/10/2021 at 8:18 AM, TheNameOfTheGame said:

I've been trying these games out under Steem SSE 4.1.0 and most of them are working really well.

There are many, many games and a menu of some sort would be nice.

There is one over on the atari-forum that might work (it runs from the AUTO folder), but maybe you are making your own menu program in the iTOS ROM?

https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=295296#p295296

Also, games that save their progress like Dungeon Master, Captive, Knightmare, etc. - can these be saved to the hard disk or do they need a floppy drive and floppy?

I made some simple game starting program for AUTO folder in past. Did not use it for looong time. Need to look at it. Hardest part is to make game list - what must have title of game and location on disk. For some 1300 games that's plenty of typing, editing.

In any case, those who like that Paradize menu - just use it.

Game starting menu in iTOS ? Will see about it, but not so soon.   And there are some games which must be started from Desktop, since use AES/GEM, so usual AUTO run is not good.  Or maybe to go on AUTO run via DESKTOP.INF ?  User selects game, it is written in DESKTOP.INF file, and will be started practically from Desktop .

 

In most of games their internal saves go to hard disk, in own subdir FILES usually. If it is not solved, that's mentioned in README.TXT . Then can save (and not only then) game state save - usually key F9 be older - it exits, but game is kept in high RAM. By running GXUT*.PRG, or in this case link to it (short file with extension LNK) can permanently save that state, even writing short comment in it. And of course may play 'game in RAM' . Here to mention: recommended to click on 'Free RAM' box to restore normal RAM state - otherwise some games may not start properly.

Newer system HAGA works little different - there is separate key for saving current state - usually * on Numpad.  / exits to Desktop, with normal RAM state.

Later ones were tested without floppy drive connected to Atari. Some older may not work without floppy drive, but nothing is written to floppies.

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18 hours ago, 8bitguy1 said:

I keep meaning to ask, because the value looks so good here, do these iTOS upgrades work with the MiST?  Specifically the MISTERY core run in STe Mode...(Happy to be tester if needed).

Certainly work with MiST . TOS 1.62i , or if it is set to ST mode then 1.04i . 2.16, 2.14 works too, for sure.  I say it with confidence, because everything what is changed, added works with regular Atari machines. Works in emulators too. To add here: without Steem Debugger it would be much harder to do all those changes in FAT16 .

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 Here is 1 GB image with practically all game hard disk adaptations I done in last 14 years. Still needs testing - because that's most time consuming now, I really can not do it all myself in reasonable time.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/z7k5lddkcuv5q3c/Gamit4pFt1.zip/file

About 650 MB. About 1350 games .

Before start to DL, note:  this works only with iTOS . Don't even try with regular TOS versions, EmuTOS, MagiC . Even if latest 2 actually support DOS type FAT16 partitions,  what is used here, but they just are not enough compatible with regular TOS, use more RAM ...

 

First idea was to do it with single 1 GB partition. But when I was at about 80% of adding games it was clear that will not fit.  What ? Hey, it is 1 GB image, so what is the problem ?   Slack is the problem. Larger partition size - more space taken by files. Will not go in details here, all it is described on some sites, pages. Just to say that going on 4 partitions instead 1 resulted in about 150 MB + space.  And in case of regular TOS, gain would be only half of that. In case of TOS 1.00-1.02 only quart of that.  Additionally, 4 partitions gave chance to use those names by disk icons for something useful -  see pic in first post.

 

This was also good chance to make for the first time compilation where DIR  C:\GAMEX is really used .

http://atari.8bitchip.info/GamexUsage.html

Quote from page above:  "Saving some disk space : as you may see, there are files D15R_*.FIC in many of adaptations. So, normal is that we can save some disk space by storing them in some common DIR and read from there. Support for it is in latest adapts, and from now on will be in all. What to do : create DIR GAMEX on partition ? .  Copy latest (and only them, not some old versions) files called:  D15R_HH4.FIC, D15R_F4.FIC, D15R_5H.FIC, D15R_5F.FIC  in that DIR.  Then may delete mentioned files from later game's directories. It may save several MBs. If after that game works not, you may always copy back files from ZIP archive ."

 

And gone further - common file GXUT276.PRG instead all those GXUT*.PRG versions in game DIRs. But, since it must be started from game's DIR, I used TOS-es INSTALL APPLICATION feature , and short files GXUT.LNK to launch C:\GAMEX\GXUT276.PRG .

The result is that there is about 10-15 MB free space in all 4 partitions, so can do state saves .

 

This image is with special driver, what will load common file D15*.FIC from C:\GAMEX even if game code missing that part. Because early adaptation do not have it, idea came little later.  For instance AGE .  And there is likely about 30-40 such totally. However, there are some don't like it - Simulcra, Sapiens. They use some RAMdisk tricks. To make them work, I made little proggie (removes that special driver extension), what need to run before game START. Best to copy it in game's DIR.

2SHUTIL.ZIP

 

Time to make YT video ...

 

 

 

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On 5/8/2021 at 11:51 AM, ParanoidLittleMan said:

 This is something I'm working on in last 3 weeks, or better said in last 13 years. So, putting  all those hard disk adaptations which I released in last 13 years, and are available on 8bitchip site. There are diverse images with plenty of games online. This one aims most of games on small storage size. Yes, that's 1 GB - as limit of Basic ACSI hard disk protocol, or as limit of internal ACSI-SCSI adapter what was by factory in Atari Mega STE and Stacy. In those times that was pretty large capacity.  Of course, today it's far from being impressive or expensive, but still, for Atari SW it is plenty of space.

So, I worked on putting as much as possible games (hard disk adapted, installable) in 1 GB partition - yes, that's possible with my iTOS. Knowing that it will need some changes by older game adaptations. Changes are done with common files D15R*.FIC - which are some kind of DLL files. For easier usage, I included them with every game DL. But there is simple way that all it can access it from one location:  C:\GAMEX - what is mentioned in instructions too. So, if disk space is tight, users just can delete it from game's DIR, and it will be loaded from that System DIR. And it is same with files HAGA, HAGE ...  Can save plenty of space, like over 100 MB in case of 1300 games.

I copied games with removed those above mentioned D15R*, HAGA and like files into single 1 GB partition. And after did it for about 70 % if was clear that will not fit more than 1250 (rough estimation) .  While sum of all file sizes, when all it is copied in is not over 850 MB. Why ? Because  so called slack - FAT filesystem  (FAT16 in case of hard disks) means that there is minimal size what some shortest, short file will take on drive - and it is in this case 16 KB - like for 1 byte long file.

And that means a lot in case if Atari SW, where we have  lot of short files.  Btw. it is less with smaller partitions, so it is 8 KB in case of 256-511 partition under iTOS, or 128-255 MB under regular TOS 1.04-4.02 .   So, I decided to try with 4x 255 MB partitions. And it worked - much more fits. Actually about 1350 games.

That's not all what is on DL page  (little over 1400), but I discarded very long variants (like Xenon 2 with audio tracks (32 MB), some older not so compatible  ones ...) .

That minimal size is called cluster, and is 4 KB instead 16 KB with 4x smaller partition size - gain is about 150 MB in this case.

 

It looks like: 1k3g1GB.thumb.png.7571aeaf6163228ce3ef1319f4163a7f.png

 

And I used possibility to give custom drive names - here  obviously they are composed of begin letters of file name DIRectories. Total 27 (letters + 0 for those starting with number) .  And there is some free space in each partition for state saves.

Hey, where is letter F ?  This is done in Steem Debugger, where F is GEMDOS drive, so G is letter for fourth logical drive. On real Atari it will be F .

For those who already got iTOS from me here is DL of not complete image:  http://atari.8bitchip.info/TestMe/Gamit4pFin1.zip

166 MB. Only last partition. 369 games. Works with all decent ACSI adapters on ST, STE (no TT, Falcon support), Steem with Pasti, Hatari . Even if partition sizes are only 255 MB it needs iTOS - only with it it all fits in 1 GB space (planned 1350 games) . And there are updated DLL like files  for it in C:\GAMEX .

Some may ask: why iTOS ? Look upper 1 line. Beside it, this was needed to be done 3 years after solving real FAT16 in iTOS - now old game adaptations using TOS 1.04 GEMDOS part in RAM are compatible with iTOS and it's more efficient partitions - it is now actually iTOS core in RAM.

Plus, this was good chance to finally put together image with all those  D15R*, HAG* system files present only in shared DIR, according to original idea, and to my rational attitude ?

Final image will be DL-able soon at MediaFire.

Genius! This is awesome!

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Just finished game selection and start menu program. It took more time than expected, and I used little unusual way - it works via editing DESKOP.INF or NEWDESK.INF for TOS 2.06 - what results in opening window with game's DIR in Desktop - then can start game, or maybe something not so popular - reading README.TXT for game ?

Opening game's DIR is essential because state saves, which must be done in that DIR, and sometimes there are multiple launchers.

 

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On 5/8/2021 at 12:51 PM, ParanoidLittleMan said:

 This is something I'm working on in last 3 weeks, or better said in last 13 years

Man, I hate it when 13 years feels like 3 weeks.  Or 3 weeks turn into 13 years!

 

This is awesome!  Thanks for doing all that you do!  It's about time I set at least one of my STs up and give it some love... especially after I stubbed my toe on one this morning hard enough that I started to bleed all over...

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Here is YT video of finished game menu, updated iTOS, in action:  

 

So, 1339 games in 1 GB hard disk space - that's possible because iTOS more efficient hard disk space usage and that I made support for reading shared common files from 'system' DIR, so no need to keep copy of them with every game. 4 smaller partitions make slack lower too. 1 GB limit is because older ACSI adapters. New driver and iTOS integrated driver work now with Basic ACSI (1 GB limit) and ICD extended ACSI (UltraSatan for instance) - thanx to special code.

Still, one big task is yet to finish: edit all game titles in game list - so far only 0, A, B, C begin letters are done.

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On 5/12/2021 at 11:23 AM, ParanoidLittleMan said:

 Here is 1 GB image with practically all game hard disk adaptations I done in last 14 years. Still needs testing - because that's most time consuming now, I really can not do it all myself in reasonable time.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/z7k5lddkcuv5q3c/Gamit4pFt1.zip/file

 

File has vanished, sadly. Could you re-upload please? (And yes, I already bought your fabulous iTOS)

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Yes, I deleted it. Because working on many  updates in last week - iTOS self, game menu PRG, and most time consuming  - updates of game adaptations self. When all quality games (and I started with such ones, I think) which are not up to today standards (state saves, easy start) will be updated, I will upload now compilation, still 1 GB .

Size matters - in my case that must not mean that more/bigger is better.  You know, parking with smaller car is usually easier - just want to point that everything is context sensitive ?

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