Anyone remember Electronic Games magazine???

[zzip]

Electronic Games was my monthly must-read magazine.

 

Especially under Katz/Worley/Kunkle-   They had a way of communicating the passion for gaming.   When they left suddenly, the tone of the magazine changed.   The new staff had more of that "critic snobbishness" about them that people hate about critics.   Then a couple of months after that, the name of the magazine changed its name to "Video Games and Computer Entertainment", and the layout was much less appealing and fun than the old. EG.   Then a couple months later it folded and became just a page or two in Video magazine.

 

Anybody know why Katz/Worley and Kunkle left?   Were they pushed out?  Did they see the writing on the wall?

[high voltage]

In the UK I also found out about the USA Computer Gaming World magazine.

That also was awesome. reading about the games for Apple ][, Atari 8 bit Computer and Commodore 64 and later PC.

Edited May 10, 2021 by high voltage

[Atari_Bill]

2 hours ago, zzip said:

Electronic Games was my monthly must-read magazine.

 

Especially under Katz/Worley/Kunkle-   They had a way of communicating the passion for gaming.   When they left suddenly, the tone of the magazine changed.   The new staff had more of that "critic snobbishness" about them that people hate about critics.   Then a couple of months after that, the name of the magazine changed its name to "Video Games and Computer Entertainment", and the layout was much less appealing and fun than the old. EG.   Then a couple months later it folded and became just a page or two in Video magazine.

 

Anybody know why Katz/Worley and Kunkle left?   Were they pushed out?  Did they see the writing on the wall?

Totally agree.  As soon as the name/format changed, I lost all interest in the mag.  

[+sramirez2008]

I had a nice collection EG magazines on a bookshelf in my room.  Sadly, they "disappeared" after I left for college. ☹️

[sprazzi]

Here in Italy we had "Video Giochi" magazine, first issue came out on Xmas 1982 to enormous success and still cherished today.

 

Interestingly enough this magazine of ours "borrowed" at least two covers from american EG:

Edited May 12, 2021 by sprazzi

[MrMaddog]

On 5/10/2021 at 10:06 AM, zzip said:

Electronic Games was my monthly must-read magazine.

 

Especially under Katz/Worley/Kunkle-   They had a way of communicating the passion for gaming.   When they left suddenly, the tone of the magazine changed.   The new staff had more of that "critic snobbishness" about them that people hate about critics.   Then a couple of months after that, the name of the magazine changed its name to "Video Games and Computer Entertainment", and the layout was much less appealing and fun than the old. EG.   Then a couple months later it folded and became just a page or two in Video magazine.

 

Anybody know why Katz/Worley and Kunkle left?   Were they pushed out?  Did they see the writing on the wall?

Yeah, they said that when the focus of the magazine was switched to computers (after the Crash) they couldn't use the words "video games" anymore and had to call them "simulations". 

[Rhomaios]

On 5/9/2021 at 7:34 AM, scotty said:

Archive.org, Digital Press and a few others have every issue archived in PDF form.   I read EG RELIGIOUSLY.  Even after the video game crash of 83, I still would keep reading and drooling, never realizing that I would have all the old consoles and computers mentioned in there (with the exception of the Apple 2), I have everything else in real hardware, and emulation.   LOVE IT.

 

RetroMags, too, which I'm surprised is still up. I thought it was shut down some years back.

[Gamemoose]

I didn't see it back when it was store shelves as I honestly never looked (I was in the 7-9 age bracket around that time and read what mags my Dad brought home: Rainbow, Hot CoCo and the occasional Starlog). I didn't discover video game magazines until after the crash when I stumbled across issues of Joystik at the library. I was trying to figure out how to play "Raider of the Lost Ark" on 2600 and was looking for any video game books. No EG though.

 

I didn't actually read an issue of EG until the early 2000's when I found scans online. 

[fultonbot]

On 5/9/2021 at 5:05 PM, schuwalker said:

Guilty...  I still have the majority of issues I owned bitd, still missing some from the year '84 - which I thought the magazine switched to more computer related material.

That was for about 4 issues in 1985, then it went kaput!

[fultonbot]

I loved this mag with all my kid sized-heart.    I never understood why it had to go away.  Such a short-sighted move by the publisher.
I managed to interview both Bill Kunkel and Arnie Katz in the 2000s, I still have the unpublished audio of the Arnie Katz interview.

[zzip]

17 hours ago, fultonbot said:

I loved this mag with all my kid sized-heart.    I never understood why it had to go away.  Such a short-sighted move by the publisher.
I managed to interview both Bill Kunkel and Arnie Katz in the 2000s, I still have the unpublished audio of the Arnie Katz interview.

Did they tell you why they left?

 

What little the magazine said was they were affected by the crash too, and that's why they went bi-monthly for a time in 84.  Then after they switched to monthly-  I can only imagine the financial troubles persisted..  which probably explains the change in editorial team.   Changing the name to Video Games & Computer Entertainment made some sense because computers had become a much bigger factor in gaming, and the term "Electronic Games" was already kind of outdated because as I remember, we called those LCD/LED handhelds of the late 70s/early 80s "electronic games",   The stuff we played on consoles was "video games".   On the other hand "Electronic Games" was a magazine brand people recognized on the newsstand, they may not have recognized VG&CE and the name change may have backfired.  

 

The layout of VG&CE changed drastically from EG too.   columns were denser (probably to save paper).  There was much less artwork (again takes up space, and full color printing is expensive, so the fewer pages that require full-color the more they save.   I think they may have switched to a cheaper paper too.    The magazine felt a lot less fun to read.    If it hadn't folded, there was a chance I wouldn't have renewed my subscription

[fultonbot]

57 minutes ago, zzip said:

Did they tell you why they left?

 

What little the magazine said was they were affected by the crash too, and that's why they went bi-monthly for a time in 84.  Then after they switched to monthly-  I can only imagine the financial troubles persisted..  which probably explains the change in editorial team.   Changing the name to Video Games & Computer Entertainment made some sense because computers had become a much bigger factor in gaming, and the term "Electronic Games" was already kind of outdated because as I remember, we called those LCD/LED handhelds of the late 70s/early 80s "electronic games",   The stuff we played on consoles was "video games".   On the other hand "Electronic Games" was a magazine brand people recognized on the newsstand, they may not have recognized VG&CE and the name change may have backfired.  

 

The layout of VG&CE changed drastically from EG too.   columns were denser (probably to save paper).  There was much less artwork (again takes up space, and full color printing is expensive, so the fewer pages that require full-color the more they save.   I think they may have switched to a cheaper paper too.    The magazine felt a lot less fun to read.    If it hadn't folded, there was a chance I wouldn't have renewed my subscription

They did not leave on their own.

Here is what Bill said:
Steve Fulton: Why was the switch from consoles to home computers unsuccessful for Electronic Games?
Kunkel: We weren’t a computer game magazine. The computer people advertised in those big, telephone book-sized PC magazines or the Apple magazines and later the Atari and C64 magazines. But EG was about the UNIVERSE of games, not computers, and computer software didn’t have the marketing budgets the VCS games did. Now CGW survived, but they started back when EG did and they were always devoted exclusively to computers. Also, Sipe sold it to Ziff-Davis in ’83, I believe, and that monolith already had advertisers from all their geek computer magazines and adding in one more magazine was not a problem. And, to be truthful, when Jay Rosenfield fired Arnie and Joyce and then I quit (they were fired on Dec. 7, 1984 and I stayed around long enough to collect a Christmas bonus, which I desperately needed), it was really all over. There’s an entire chapter on it in my book, but basically Reese had no credibility left. It looked like they were suddenly switching sides and were becoming a magazine about the various boring kinds of computer-based entertainment that was big in the mid-80s. I mean, Americans were into computer games, everything had to be a SIMULATION. This is typically fickle of the US audience, by the way.

Read the while interview here:
https://intotheverticalblank.com/2008/05/16/bill-kunkel-electronic-games-interview/

This is what Arnie said:

How did the original Electronic Games end?

AK: It folded because Jay fired all of us and brought in another crew that were unable to do it. What was kind of sad about it was that I had told Jay, as far back as mid-1984, that with our name Electronic Games, we should be shifting our focus to computer games because of the problems in the industry. However, Jay was much less comfortable with computers than video games.

It was something about computers. He did not like computers. Maybe they seemed more threatening? I honestly don’t know. Whatever it was, we kept our format. I even suggested changing the name to Computers and Video Games. We kept doing it. The circulation went down, but not by much. I think 180,000 was the bottom.
https://intotheverticalblank.com/2009/12/29/my-interview-with-arnie-katz-co-founder-of-electronic-games-magazine-up-at-gamastra/

 

[zzip]

14 minutes ago, fultonbot said:

Steve Fulton: Why was the switch from consoles to home computers unsuccessful for Electronic Games?
Kunkel: We weren’t a computer game magazine. The computer people advertised in those big, telephone book-sized PC magazines or the Apple magazines and later the Atari and C64 magazines. But EG was about the UNIVERSE of games, not computers, and computer software didn’t have the marketing budgets the VCS games did.

Interesting how they both say the magazine wasn't a computer games magazine,  but my memory was that by 1984, they were already heavily covering computer games.

[fultonbot]

17 minutes ago, zzip said:

Interesting how they both say the magazine wasn't a computer games magazine,  but my memory was that by 1984, they were already heavily covering computer games.

They were, so yeah, it's kinda weird.  But I wonder if they were not as involved with that part of the magazine as we thought.
You should also make sure to read Bill's book, Confessions Of The Game Doctor:
https://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Game-Doctor-Bill-Kunkel/dp/B088BFGF3D/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1621965535&refinements=p_27%3ABill+Kunkel&s=books&sr=1-1

It gives a lot of insight into the publishing process.  For example, it's not like the offices for EG were filled with TVs and  video game consoles, in fact, there was very little if anything in the office.  It's likely most of the computer articles were done by freelancers, and the KKW were a bit removed from that process.

Edited May 25, 2021 by fultonbot

[zzip]

4 minutes ago, fultonbot said:

They were, so yeah, it's kinda weird.  But I wonder if they were not as involved with that part of the magazine as we thought.
You should also make sure to read Bill's book, Confessions Of The Game Doctor:
https://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Game-Doctor-Bill-Kunkel/dp/B088BFGF3D/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1621965535&refinements=p_27%3ABill+Kunkel&s=books&sr=1-1

Hmm,  I just pulled up a random issue from 84.   I do see that Arnie and Joyce wrote some of the computer game reviews, as well as regular Tracie Forman and a few other people.   But interestingly none were from Bill.   Maybe he wasn't into computer games?

 

In Arnie's interview, he blamed the publisher for not wanting to do computers.  Bill said they weren't a computer game magazine, and that was covered by other publications.

[fultonbot]

5 minutes ago, zzip said:

Hmm,  I just pulled up a random issue from 84.   I do see that Arnie and Joyce wrote some of the computer game reviews, as well as regular Tracie Forman and a few other people.   But interestingly none were from Bill.   Maybe he wasn't into computer games?

 

In Arnie's interview, he blamed the publisher for not wanting to do computers.  Bill said they weren't a computer game magazine, and that was covered by other publications.

So I met Bill in the 2000's after his book came out and we spent a couple days talking about video game design and EG.  Bill did not have the best memory of everything at the time, and even Arnie mentions this in his interview that book is from "Bill' perspective".   DM me if you want know more.

[BydoEmpire]

I've got a handful of early 80s issues, some have screenshots of certain games cut out because I must have put them on a Christmas list or something. They're great fun to read.  I never subscribed, but I do remember buying it pretty often.

 

I have at least one issue of the 90s reboot, it has Predator on the cover.

 

[Dan Iacovelli]

I remember that magazine and the others arinie did: Video Games and computer entertainment (VGCE) and Computer games.
if you look for arnies fandom article you might see a familiar name ? arinie got me started in doing fanzines and I had mine "the Atari Zone"
reviewed by many times. had the honor of meeting arinie at CGE as well.
I followed his footsteps reviewing other zines in my own zine.
I'm trying relaunch my zine hopefully in time for MGC preview issue.

[Raiu]

I'm a little late to this topic, but I remember being a huge fan of Dan Gutman's Video Games Player (later Computer Games) magazine.  My cousin had an issue and I talked Mom into getting me a subscription.  I also read a few issues of Computer Games and Electronic Games at friends' house, but never got them myself.  (I also had a subscription to Atari Age, of course.  That magazine was a little biased for some reason)

 

When I was a little older, I got into Electronic Gaming Monthly (starting at issue 9), though I never subscribed, just bought them on the newsstand.  I enjoyed going to look for them.  I also bought the first issue of GamePro, and a couple of issues of DieHard GameFan (starting with the Super Street Fighter II issue)

 

(Sadly, most of these got destroyed in the awful mess that was my room for much of my teenage years and early 20s.  I don't have any of them anymore)

 

... I think I may read that DigitalPress page for a while now.

[schuwalker]

On 5/25/2021 at 11:16 AM, zzip said:

Did they tell you why they left?

 

What little the magazine said was they were affected by the crash too, and that's why they went bi-monthly for a time in 84.  Then after they switched to monthly-  I can only imagine the financial troubles persisted..  which probably explains the change in editorial team.   Changing the name to Video Games & Computer Entertainment made some sense because computers had become a much bigger factor in gaming, and the term "Electronic Games" was already kind of outdated because as I remember, we called those LCD/LED handhelds of the late 70s/early 80s "electronic games",   The stuff we played on consoles was "video games".   On the other hand "Electronic Games" was a magazine brand people recognized on the newsstand, they may not have recognized VG&CE and the name change may have backfired.  

 

The layout of VG&CE changed drastically from EG too.   columns were denser (probably to save paper).  There was much less artwork (again takes up space, and full color printing is expensive, so the fewer pages that require full-color the more they save.   I think they may have switched to a cheaper paper too.    The magazine felt a lot less fun to read.    If it hadn't folded, there was a chance I wouldn't have renewed my subscription

I've been nitpicking on trying to fill some voids on my magazine collection as of late. VG&CE in particular, for some reason, I was missing the issue with the NES Uforce gimmick on the cover.

 

I was thumbing through most of the issues as a result, even found the premier issue with Blaster Master dude on the cover. I do agree with your assessment on the lack of eye candy - really noticeable in the first 6 issues or so; but the content was very dense compared to the early issues of EGM, I never realized how thin that magazines was for a few years. I still love how VG&CE tackled some DOS game reviews from the late '80s (which I really got into some pc gaming, moreso in '89).

 

All said and done, My opinion was VG&CE was the best gaming periodical of the late '80s into the early '90s. When they reverted back to Electronic Game again is when I noticed things took a nose dive content-wise.

[zzip]

On 8/28/2021 at 8:53 AM, schuwalker said:

I've been nitpicking on trying to fill some voids on my magazine collection as of late. VG&CE in particular, for some reason, I was missing the issue with the NES Uforce gimmick on the cover.

 

I was thumbing through most of the issues as a result, even found the premier issue with Blaster Master dude on the cover. I do agree with your assessment on the lack of eye candy - really noticeable in the first 6 issues or so; but the content was very dense compared to the early issues of EGM, I never realized how thin that magazines was for a few years. I still love how VG&CE tackled some DOS game reviews from the late '80s (which I really got into some pc gaming, moreso in '89).

 

All said and done, My opinion was VG&CE was the best gaming periodical of the late '80s into the early '90s. When they reverted back to Electronic Game again is when I noticed things took a nose dive content-wise.

I think you may be thinking of a different publication,  unless they relaunched it later?

 

The Video Games and Computer Entertainment I'm thinking of was in 1985,  it only lasted 3 issues, maybe 4 before it folded and became just a column in "Video" magazine

[roadrunner]

Shameless plug, defunct magazine thread here at AA link -


 

 

[Blues_Bloody]

On 8/31/2021 at 9:54 AM, zzip said:

I think you may be thinking of a different publication,  unless they relaunched it later?

 

The Video Games and Computer Entertainment I'm thinking of was in 1985,  it only lasted 3 issues, maybe 4 before it folded and became just a column in "Video" magazine

They did relaunch it in 1988 with Arnie Katz, Joyce Worley and Bill Kunkel contributing. It lasted until 1993 when it was renamed "Video Games-the ultimate gaming magazine". The Electronic Games reboot in the early 90's was done by a different publisher. 

 

On 8/28/2021 at 7:53 AM, schuwalker said:

I've been nitpicking on trying to fill some voids on my magazine collection as of late. VG&CE in particular, for some reason, I was missing the issue with the NES Uforce gimmick on the cover.

 

I was thumbing through most of the issues as a result, even found the premier issue with Blaster Master dude on the cover. I do agree with your assessment on the lack of eye candy - really noticeable in the first 6 issues or so; but the content was very dense compared to the early issues of EGM, I never realized how thin that magazines was for a few years. I still love how VG&CE tackled some DOS game reviews from the late '80s (which I really got into some pc gaming, moreso in '89).

 

All said and done, My opinion was VG&CE was the best gaming periodical of the late '80s into the early '90s. When they reverted back to Electronic Game again is when I noticed things took a nose dive content-wise.

The u-force cover was my first issue! I wore that thing out reading it from cover to cover. I agree it was the best mag of the early 80's, it had more substance than EGM and Gamepro at the time which seemed to be geared towards little kids. EGM had more exciting layouts but I learned so much about video game history from stuff like the game doctor columns and their feature stories. By the 16-bit era I had switched to EGM and Game Fan but VG&CE was always my favorite.

[zzip]

12 hours ago, Blues_Bloody said:

They did relaunch it in 1988 with Arnie Katz, Joyce Worley and Bill Kunkel contributing. It lasted until 1993 when it was renamed "Video Games-the ultimate gaming magazine". The Electronic Games reboot in the early 90's was done by a different publisher. 

But it was called "Electronic Games" again, right?   Not "Video Games & Computer Entertainment"?    The change of name of the original EG to VGCE happened shortly after Katz/Worley/Kunkle left/were forced out,  so I wouldn't think they'd relaunch under the VGCE name.

[Blues_Bloody]

2 hours ago, zzip said:

But it was called "Electronic Games" again, right?   Not "Video Games & Computer Entertainment"?    The change of name of the original EG to VGCE happened shortly after Katz/Worley/Kunkle left/were forced out,  so I wouldn't think they'd relaunch under the VGCE name.

No sir, this is the magazine I'm talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VideoGames_%26_Computer_Entertainment 

 

I'm literally holding my original, tattered copy of the Feburary 1990 issue with Arnie Katz listed as computer entertainment editor, Bill Kunkel as computer entertainment assistant editor and Joyce Worely as news editor.

 

Again, Electronic Games was rebooted a few years after the debut of VG&CE in 1992 and was done with Katz, Kunkel and Worley also: https://www.retromags.com/magazines/usa/electronic-games-1992/electronic-games-lc2-issue-1/

 

You seem to be getting VG&CE confused with this magazine, Computer Entertainment: https://www.retromags.com/publications/united-states/computer-entertainment/

 

Hope this clears things up!