Jail Bars When Using S-Video Through 5X Pro

[Tempest]

Today I decided to hook up my Atari 1200XL through my new  Retrotink 5X Pro so I could use it on my LCD TV.  I was surprised to see that while the picture looked nice, there were 'jail bars' running through the picture.  I thought maybe it was the video mod I had done on my 1200XL but when I tried my 800 I got the same thing (worse actually).  Surprisingly my S-Video modded 5200 doesn't do this, nor does my 2600 or 7800.  It doesn't ruin the picture too much and I can turn on scanlines to hide it, but I'm not sure I like that look or not and it leads to a 'crosshatch' look on solid colored screens.  Is this just how S-Video is on the 8-Bit Ataris?  I'll try and get some screenshots tomorrow.

[+DrVenkman]

Shielded cables make a huge difference here. How are you using S-video on the 1200XL? Did you install a UAV or did you do something like a ClearPic mod to it?

[Tempest]

I believe the 1200XL has a clearpic mod and the 800 has no mod at all.  Not sure about the cable though, how well its shielded.

[Mazzspeed]

The chroma and luma cables need to be separately shielded to reduce crosstalk, this is very important. Most off the shelf cable's I've seen aren't separately shielded.

[Tempest]

Here are some examples of what I'm seeing.  I used Congo Bongo because it has nice bright solid colors and it's also available on the 5200 for comparison:

 

My The!Cart Menu

 

Congo Bongo (1200XL)

 

 

Here I turned on scanlines which kind of hides the problem but also gives it a 'screen door' type effect:

 

 

My S-Video modded 5200 doesn't seem to have this issue nearly as bad.  If you really look you can sort of see it though

 

 

 

Maybe it is the video cable?  I have a new one coming from 8-bit classics, maybe that will help?

 

[+Stephen]

8 minutes ago, Tempest said:

Maybe it is the video cable?  I have a new one coming from 8-bit classics, maybe that will help?

Definitely a cable issue.  The jailbars are caused when the chroma carrier bleeds over into the luma signal, usually from poor shielding.

[Tempest]

42 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Definitely a cable issue.  The jailbars are caused when the chroma carrier bleeds over into the luma signal, usually from poor shielding.

What manufacturer of cable do you recommend?

[+Faicuai]

On 5/25/2021 at 7:09 PM, Tempest said:

Surprisingly my S-Video modded 5200 doesn't do this, nor does my 2600 or 7800. 

If this is the case (and assuming you are also using the SAME cable), can't blame the cable, entirely.

 

I have a couple of cables here, that I am reviewing directly under my Fluke-99B scope, in TV-scan mode. If I can reach clear conclusions I will post them.

 

The problem with alternate cables is that there is a SIGNFICANT difference between [s-Video only] and [multi-interface (Composite, s-Video, chroma, etc.)] versions. If only an s-video signal is to be extracted from the Atari, it is quite easy to make that cable heavily shielded and thick-as-hell. However, if [Audio + Composite + Luma + Chroma] are to be extracted on the same cable run, then watch how that cable thins out pretty quickly, down to filaments, right at the Atari video-monitor port... no matter which one you choose.

 

I am initially inclined to think, based on what I am seeing from my 800XLs (in which I can disable or enable CHROMA-SIGNAL directly on-board the machines), is that we may be dealing with vestigial chroma-signal still present or affecting the Luma-only side., regardless of any cable chosen. And that would comes from the machine / host, directly, and not the cable themselves.

 

That's what I am looking to see / verify on the scope-meter.

[invisible kid]

I think in another thread, these were recommended(need to scroll down for the s-video ones):

 

http://herculesworkshop.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product-category.cgi?d=hercules-workshop&pc=15424

 

[Tempest]

59 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

If this is the case (and assuming you are also using the SAME cable), can't blame the cable, entirely.

No different cable.  I have them going into a switch box and then to the 5X Pro.

[bfollowell]

32 minutes ago, Tempest said:

No different cable.  I have them going into a switch box and then to the 5X Pro.

 

Try swapping the cable then, and see if the problem moves.

 

[Tempest]

18 minutes ago, bfollowell said:

 

Try swapping the cable then, and see if the problem moves.

 

I can't.  The 5200 uses a standard S-Video cable and my 1200XL uses the 5 pin DIN connector.

[Mazzspeed]

I made my cable and I definitely don't get jailbars even remotely like that from my 600XL running svideo to a Sharp 19" TV. The quality of the cable has a huge impact on PQ. Even my C64's PQ improved noticeably with the addition of a separately shielded svideo cable to my 1084S, as opposed to the original non shielded one I was using.

[bfollowell]

4 hours ago, Tempest said:

I can't.  The 5200 uses a standard S-Video cable and my 1200XL uses the 5 pin DIN connector.

Ahhhhh, well shoot. I was thinking it may just help narrow the problem down.

 

[Tempest]

I got my new cable from 8-Bit Classics and I'm having the same issue.  The more I look at it I think the cable I was using before also came from them so it's no surprise (I needed another for my 800 so it's no loss).  At this point I'm not sure if it's the cable or the 5X Pro and I don't know how you'd tell either.  Is there someone who sells shielded cables?

 

On a side note, my 800 hooked up to my PVM monitor using the same cable doesn't seem to have this issue, or at least it's not as noticeable if it does.  I hooked my 800 up to the 5X Pro and have the same issue as my 1200XL.  Not sure if that implies it's the 5X Pro's fault or just that the cable is crappy and it's more noticeable on the 5X Pro.

[+DrVenkman]

3 minutes ago, Tempest said:

Is there someone who sells shielded cables?

See above for the link to Hercules cables. Several people have used them very successfully.

 

http://herculesworkshop.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hercules-workshop&item=59616

[Tempest]

6 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

See above for the link to Hercules cables. Several people have used them very successfully.

 

http://herculesworkshop.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hercules-workshop&item=59616

Out of Stock

[ClausB]

On 5/28/2021 at 4:34 PM, Tempest said:

No different cable.  I have them going into a switch box and then to the 5X Pro.

Have you tried them without the switch box?

[Tempest]

1 hour ago, ClausB said:

Have you tried them without the switch box?

I can try that and see

[Tempest]

17 hours ago, ClausB said:

Have you tried them without the switch box?

No change.  Still have the same jail bars.  I really am wondering if it's just the video out on the 1200XL and 800.  I wish I had another system to try.

[Awch]

On 5/29/2021 at 2:47 PM, Tempest said:

Out of Stock

They have 12 foot cables in stock:

http://herculesworkshop.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hercules-workshop&item=82084

 

If you search for Atari they also have 25 foot cables.

[Tempest]

1 hour ago, Awch said:

They have 12 foot cables in stock:

http://herculesworkshop.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product.cgi?d=hercules-workshop&item=82084

 

If you search for Atari they also have 25 foot cables.

Wow, that's a little long...