Curious about status of 5.25 floppy disks nowadays

[Mclaneinc]

Got a Gotek for my Amiga 1200, used it once, didn't like it and when I sold the 1200 (huge mistake but was forced to do it) I put the old real drive back in and gave the Gotek as part of the sale..

[Atari8guy]

Pretty much similar to everyone else, the 5.25 DD disks seem to work mostly fine, the 3.5 not as well but usually work better in my 3rd party drive vs the built in one in my ST.  Honestly my drives require more care and work to maintain than my disks.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by 8bitguy1

[Mclaneinc]

As with all retro media, back it up to digital if you can, these disks are all ticking time bombs..

[Irgendwer]

On 5/27/2021 at 3:03 PM, mdivancic said:

The folks at FloppyDisk.com used to have a source for new disk and would have a new batch made when necessary. Their supplier retired the equipment for this and new disk are no longer available. When the current supply is gone there will be no more new disk. The were looking for another supplier, but during the last conversation I had with them they had not yet found a new source.

So I asked "The 8-Bit Guy" where his new disks are from - and surprise, they are from https://www.floppydisk.com/ ?

[gilsaluki]

The 8-bit Guy.  Nice show. Seems like a nice guy.  Good production. 

[eegad]

After having my Atari stuff packed up for 25 years or so,  I was shocked to find that not only did all 4 of my 1050 drives work,  but that all but one of the many many disks I booted up at the time worked fine also. These old disks seem to be more durable than predicted,  so long as they are kept in a reasonable environment... As in,  not in a wet basement or broiling hot attic. 

 

[atarialoha]

By the way, I can offer my own experience with CD-ROM and DVD-ROM. Their lifespan seems to be about 20 years. The commercial physically STAMPED optical media might last longer, but the writable ones that we burn using our own drives, does not seem to be reliable beyond 20 years. I even used some expensive "gold" discs from Kodak, in the 1990s, which is supposed to be archival quality (bullsh*t!) for photos, etc. I think the key problem is the plastic layer tends to warp after a while, thus sufficiently bending the metallic layer out of alignment with the laser. Using stick on labels exacerbates the problem, when the tough paper shrinks from age, pulling the disc plastic into an even worse warp. Surprisingly, magnetic media seems to last longer than the optical media (again, I reckon it is the quality of the disc plastic that is the key factor), so long as there is no damage to the mechanical aspects. The magnetic surface itself seems to be quite robust, assuming no extreme environmental assault (e.g., heat, moisture, or extreme cold which might crack the media). I have had several hard disks fail on me over the decades, maybe 5 of them have failed, out of quite a lot of hard disks, and not always due to age. I had a newish hard disk fail on me in just a year or so (replaced under warranty but the data was lost; I do have backups).

 

There is this M-DISC format that supposedly lasts longer but I have not had the opportunity to test this out. Literally it would take decades to check it out too. I remember the above-mentioned Kodak CD-ROMs said they were rated for 100 years longevity. Yeah right!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC

[Irgendwer]

14 hours ago, gilsaluki said:

The 8-bit Guy.  Nice show. Seems like a nice guy.  Good production. 

Yes and even he's fond of Commodore, he is very objective:

 

 

(You will like that vid! )

 

Back to topic: I don't test my 5 1/4" very often, but hadn't any big issues regarding failures in the past.

My favorite brand are the Memorex ones. Not that there are more reliable than others, but I really like that shiny, silver ring in the middle:

Edited May 29, 2021 by Irgendwer

[nadir]

I'm a big fan of cartridges as other than a few that died early on, all the ones I have from way back in the day still work. 

 

I have virtually no remaining functional floppy media.  Over the years they all failed.  Seemed to get some kind of build up on them that would contaminate the drives when I used them too.  I was having to clean the drives constantly.

 

DVD ROMs were sketchy even when new and have definitely not aged well.  CDs all were solid at first, but now my entire CD collection is starting to fail.  So, I agree with the person that said they have about a 20 year lifespan...

 

All my current collecting is solidly aimed at cartridges...

[gilsaluki]

Wow.  Never had a DVD or CD fail.  Only a few floppies (commercial ones) fail.  Ticking time bomb on my music collection.  I guess it was smart of me to hang on to my vinyl records.

[BillC]

42 minutes ago, gilsaluki said:

Wow.  Never had a DVD or CD fail.  Only a few floppies (commercial ones) fail.  Ticking time bomb on my music collection.  I guess it was smart of me to hang on to my vinyl records.

Or convert any still good to MP3/FLAC/other before they fail.

Exact Audio Copy is what was recommended to me by my brother, it is Windows only.

https://www.exactaudiocopy.de

[manterola]

1 hour ago, BillC said:

Or convert any still good to MP3/FLAC/other before they fail.

Exact Audio Copy is what was recommended to me by my brother, it is Windows only.

https://www.exactaudiocopy.de

Yes!   And it works in Linux using wine. 

Regarding look of floppies, I love the look of colored TDKs I got around 1990 in Iquique, Chile. They came in five different colors. Those are still going strong, without problems, and still have a couple empty (new). 

Another cool ones are the Verbatim Teflon

Edited May 29, 2021 by manterola
I found pictures in google

[ColleenLover]

I have been waiting for someone to ask this question!

Here is my secret on floppy disks!!   i have much experience in this area.

 

I currently have 15 Atari floppy drives. 810s Stock/happy/and CHIP and  1050s  Stock/ happy.

I have also owned and used throughout the years INDUS GTs and XF551s. and I still use all them today.. 

 

I have used a HUGE array of floppy disk brands and will drop this here for everyone to know now....

 

In my direct experience, the BEST most durable highest quality floppies EVER made were the  SYNCOM PLATINUM floppies.  (NO CONTEST)

 

(( The chemical formula of the recording media is made with actual Platinum-Oxide and the media is chemically stable and does not degrade)).....

 

MY original open box from 1982------ ALL 10 them are still working and format 100% just like 1982 (all of them)

They have been used throughout the years they are utterly amazing.

The outer jackets never dried out either, due to higher quality materials and thickness.

 

I am letting my secret go now, because I have actively collected a lifetime supply of these disks before opening my mouth..    

They are the ONLY floppies I use and will ever use, here is my stash!

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by ColleenLover
spelling ;)

[archeocomp]

My european 5.25" TDK, Maxell, Verbatim, 3M, Basf and name many more.. still all good?

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by archeocomp

[+DrVenkman]

37 minutes ago, ColleenLover said:

In my direct experience, the BEST most durable highest quality floppies EVER made were the  SYNCOM PLATINUM floppies.  (NO CONTEST)

 

(( The chemical formula of the recording media is made with actual Platinum-Oxide and the media is chemically stable and does not degrade)).....

Platinum is normally not chemically reactive at all, and to get it oxidize is a pretty fraught industrial process. The resulting oxide compound is itself a desirable industrial catalyst for other reactions. I wonder how much of what you wrote was marketing hype about how the magnetic media was made using the catalyst rather than the media itself, especially since platinum - while a great electrical conductor - is non-magnetic.

 

And the reality is, the magnetic ferrous oxide of an ordinary floppy disk is pretty chemically stable already; the oxides don't degrade so much as just fall of the Mylar disk substrate surface. 

[atarialoha]

4 hours ago, nadir said:

I'm a big fan of cartridges as other than a few that died early on, all the ones I have from way back in the day still work. 

 

I have virtually no remaining functional floppy media.  Over the years they all failed.  Seemed to get some kind of build up on them that would contaminate the drives when I used them too.  I was having to clean the drives constantly.

 

DVD ROMs were sketchy even when new and have definitely not aged well.  CDs all were solid at first, but now my entire CD collection is starting to fail.  So, I agree with the person that said they have about a 20 year lifespan...

 

All my current collecting is solidly aimed at cartridges...

Interesting about your floppy experience. Can you clarify a bit more about your living climate? Is it relatively humid? Hot? Etc.

[atarialoha]

3 hours ago, gilsaluki said:

Wow.  Never had a DVD or CD fail.  Only a few floppies (commercial ones) fail.  Ticking time bomb on my music collection.  I guess it was smart of me to hang on to my vinyl records.

Your commercial audio CDs are likely physically STAMPED instead of burned. So I think it would last longer. Still, they are a ticking thing as they continue to age (like us, LOL). But I assume most of what you like to hear you probably ripped them onto digital media and maybe backed up in the Cloud. That's a whole other discussion, what is reliable in terms of Cloud services, etc.

[atarialoha]

49 minutes ago, ColleenLover said:

I have been waiting for someone to ask this question!

Here is my secret on floppy disks!!   i have much experience in this area.

 

I currently have 15 Atari floppy drives. 810s Stock/happy/and CHIP and  1050s  Stock/ happy.

I have also owned and used throughout the years INDUS GTs and XF551s. and I still use all them today.. 

 

I have used a HUGE array of floppy disk brands and will drop this here for everyone to know now....

 

In my direct experience, the BEST most durable highest quality floppies EVER made were the  SYNCOM PLATINUM floppies.  (NO CONTEST)

 

(( The chemical formula of the recording media is made with actual Platinum-Oxide and the media is chemically stable and does not degrade)).....

 

MY original open box from 1982------ ALL 10 them are still working and format 100% just like 1982 (all of them)

They have been used throughout the years they are utterly amazing.

The outer jackets never dried out either, due to higher quality materials and thickness.

 

I am letting my secret go now, because I have actively collected a lifetime supply of these disks before opening my mouth..    

They are the ONLY floppies I use and will ever use, here is my stash!

 

 

LOL. You should have told me this 40 years ago! I never heard of this brand! Anyway maybe they were too expensive for my teenager self to buy.

 

Nobody has said anything about Dysan. You folks never used this brand?! Surprised.

[atarialoha]

8 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Platinum is normally not chemically reactive at all, and to get it oxidize is a pretty fraught industrial process. The resulting oxide compound is itself a desirable industrial catalyst for other reactions. I wonder how much of what you wrote was marketing hype about how the magnetic media was made using the catalyst rather than the media itself, especially since platinum - while a great electrical conductor - is non-magnetic.

 

And the reality is, the magnetic ferrous oxide of an ordinary floppy disk is pretty chemically stable already; the oxides don't degrade so much as just fall of the Mylar disk substrate surface. 

Maybe it's all down to the quality of the plastics again, just like I guess everything else. Even cassette tape. The substrate/backing is the Achilles Heel, whether floppy media, or cassette, or even optical media.

 

On a related note, there have been many other plastic objects (consumer products) that have somehow degenerated over the years. The worst kind is the matte plastic coating that degrades into a sticky gooey mess. So horrible! These cheap plastics seem to have made their way into consumer products (particularly consumer electronics products) in the recent 2 decades, methinks. I don't remember having these problems before the turn of the millennium. Now, I have been finding old products oozing out a sticky mess unbeknownst to me when they were sitting in a box (along with other items) in my storage. Sometimes they even turn into this ooze in just two or three years. I still have one of those optical thermometer things (with the laser pointer) which I had to take apart because the outer shell turned into The Blob, and I kept the PCB and electronic components, waiting for one day when I will 3D print a replacement shell (but they are so cheap I might as well just buy another one, which is why I haven't done anything about it LOL).

 

BTW even ROM media can deteriorate, I made a comment in another post about "electromigration" at the semiconductor level. Alas, entropy is the great equalizer...

 

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/All_Good_Things..._(episode)

[nadir]

1 hour ago, atarialoha said:

Interesting about your floppy experience. Can you clarify a bit more about your living climate? Is it relatively humid? Hot? Etc.

Wide range.  Out door temperature varies from -15 F to 100 F.  Indoors I keep it in the 65-75F range.  Humidity can run 15% up to 100% though depending on the season.

[Peruchi]

On 5/27/2021 at 7:19 PM, Irgendwer said:

This is funny, as I remember their ad-slogan "Elephant never forgets". (I don't had/have them.)

 

-

 

Someone could ask "The 8-Bit Guy" where his source of disks is originating:

 

 

Nowadays such stack of new disks looks quite impressing...

 

(Edit: BTW: Is there any interest in an A8 port of PETSCII Robots?)

I'd love to play an A8 version of PETSCII Robots!

[atarialoha]

36 minutes ago, nadir said:

Wide range.  Out door temperature varies from -15 F to 100 F.  Indoors I keep it in the 65-75F range.  Humidity can run 15% up to 100% though depending on the season.

Could be the reason. All the wide variations will expand, compress, soften, dry out, etc. the media numerous times over the decades.

[Irgendwer]

2 hours ago, Peruchi said:

I'd love to play an A8 version of PETSCII Robots!

I can tell you, that I will tell you not more than this...

[manterola]

I also got original DVD degradation. Actually once I got a new (but very old) sealed TV series on DVD and I could not read it. When I observed the surface closely I notice little dark spots... I Googled it and found that is somewhat common to get the metal oxidation if the manufacture process is not perfect. 

Anyway, I have one Dysan floppy and it works, but I remember that the band was rather expensive.

Regarding the Platinum Xycon box I got at the end of the 90's as NOS did not survive the decade. The floppies from that box are all dead long ago, maybe I got bad luck. 

Also interestingly, the BASF HD floppies  can be formatted, written and read by the Xf-551. 

 

 

 

[DavidMil]

I bought 20 of theses floppies last year... for less than $10.00 per 10 disks.  All but one formatted nicely.  These disks are new.

Mine had a manufacture date of 2018.  I also must admit that there is something nostalgically satisfying about listening to the

drive read the disks (and wondering if this is the time that the disk will fail).  But just incase,
I also have one of each AtariMax USB and serial to SIO adapters.  I only put certain games/programs on floppies.

 

DavidMil