Atari 600XL NTSC and Sophia 2 HDMI install

[hasanc]

I finally got around to install Sophia 2 into my Atari 600XL NTSC. Since I didn't want to make any destructive changes, I made a simple mini HDMI breakout board and installed it where the RF channel 2/3 switch was located. Here are some pictures of the installation:

 

 

I hope it's interesting or useful to people that might want to do something similar. Now it's time to figure out how to get audio output ? 

 

Regards,

Carlos

[Mazzspeed]

8 minutes ago, hasanc said:

I finally got around to install Sophia 2 into my Atari 600XL NTSC. Since I didn't want to make any destructive changes, I made a simple mini HDMI breakout board and installed it where the RF channel 2/3 switch was located. Here are some pictures of the installation:

 

 

I hope it's interesting or useful to people that might want to do something similar. Now it's time to figure out how to get audio output ? 

 

Regards,

Carlos

Very impressive! Bloody genius move for those with NTSC based 600XL's.

[venom4728a]

Very nice, where did you find the HDMI Breakout board?

[hasanc]

5 minutes ago, venom4728a said:

Very nice, where did you find the HDMI Breakout board?

 

I made it using kiCad. First time doing a PCB so it's far from perfect but it's working for me.

 

Here are the Gerbers and BOM for those interested:

• https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/jae-electronics/DC2R019JA7R1700/5823252
• https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/1-215079-6/1860391 

Sophia 2 HDMI Breakout Rev 1.2.zip

[+mytek]

I tried uploading the zip to OSH Park, and it took a bit of time for the gerbers to be sorted, but eventually it seemed to work for the most part. I think it would likely work better if the extensions were more specific such as .GBL, .GTL, ect..

 

Because of its small size it's pretty cheap to have it made from them, and it comes with free international shipping.

 

[Faicuai]

2 hours ago, hasanc said:

I finally got around to install Sophia 2 into my Atari 600XL NTSC. Since I didn't want to make any destructive changes, I made a simple mini HDMI breakout board and installed it where the RF channel 2/3 switch was located. Here are some pictures of the installation:

 

 

 

 

 

I hope it's interesting or useful (...)

 

Very well done, and doing the best you can with what you already had there.

 

Is the RF modulator stuck on ch. 2 or 3, or is it inoperative after removal of switch?

Lastly, can original shields be fitted back in place?

[hasanc]

1 hour ago, Faicuai said:

 

Very well done, and doing the best you can with what you already had there.

 

Is the RF modulator stuck on ch. 2 or 3, or is it inoperative after removal of switch?

Lastly, can original shields be fitted back in place?

Thanks! The RF modulator is working fine but stuck at channel 3 and the RF shield doesn't fit anymore (Sophia 2 is maybe 1 or 2mm too tall? so a low-profile DIP socket for GTIA/Sophia 2 might help?).

 

[hasanc]

2 hours ago, mytek said:

I tried uploading the zip to OSH Park, and it took a bit of time for the gerbers to be sorted, but eventually it seemed to work for the most part. I think it would likely work better if the extensions were more specific such as .GBL, .GTL, ect..

 

Because of its small size it's pretty cheap to have it made from them, and it comes with free international shipping.

 

Thanks for your suggestion about Gerber file format, I'll keep it in mind next time! and yes, it was pretty cheap to manufacture them, I paid around 13 USD total (including shipping from China) for 5 PCBs, but they sent me 10 PCBs for some reason ? 

 

[Mazzspeed]

25 minutes ago, hasanc said:

Thanks! The RF modulator is working fine but stuck at channel 3 and the RF shield doesn't fit anymore (Sophia 2 is maybe 1 or 2mm too tall? so a low-profile DIP socket for GTIA/Sophia 2 might help?).

 

I wouldn't bother, all they do is retain heat.

 

Who still uses FTA TV anyway?

[bfollowell]

It's a perfect place to put it, assuming the 600XL hasn't already been modded to replace the channel switch with a monitor port. I think I'll print one of the DVI/PBI port adapters that over seen in videos recently.

 

Yours looks really good though. Great job!

 

[flashjazzcat]

You will be glad if you put the DVI connector in place of the RF modulator and replaced the channel switch with a monitor jack if you ever get 'Signal out of range' on the Sophia output.

[Mazzspeed]

24 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

You will be glad if you put the DVI connector in place of the RF modulator and replaced the channel switch with a monitor jack if you ever get 'Signal out of range' on the Sophia output.

Is that still a possible issue regarding Sophia 2 and U1MB? Or is it just that you can still use the monitor out with Sophia 2 installed?

[Faicuai]

8 hours ago, hasanc said:

The RF modulator is working fine but stuck at channel 3 and the RF shield doesn't fit anymore

Well, that's good news (you have your fall-back audio+video+artifacting interface still active), and everything seems reversible, for the most part.

 

If you would still prefer keeping your current approach, it seems to me that you still have some gap/space between mini HDMi connector and the actual Ch. 2/3 switch opening. You could slip in there a pre-terminated RCA audio pig-tail long enough to pick up audio-signal being fed to RF modulator (depending on its actual leves) and extract cleanly through the same Ch. 2/3 opening, and call it a day!

 

As for the shields, it would be ideal to keep them back in place, everything in one piece, but de-soldering existing GTIA socket just to fit a low-profile one on that pretty 600XL is not worth it. I would store the shields well protected against humidity, in a safe place, and that's it.

[+mytek]

8 hours ago, hasanc said:

Thanks for your suggestion about Gerber file format, I'll keep it in mind next time! and yes, it was pretty cheap to manufacture them, I paid around 13 USD total (including shipping from China) for 5 PCBs, but they sent me 10 PCBs for some reason ?

This is one of those cases where OSH Park is actually cheaper at $3.15 for 3 boards to your doorstep (FREE shipping). OSH Park is really only good when doing small footprint boards such as yours.

 

Here's OSH Park's suggested file naming.

 

I normally use .DRL instead of .XLN so that it's recognizable at other sites such as ALLPCB and JLCPCB. OSH Park recognizes either drill file extension.

 

If you register for an account and then upload your gerbers, these can be shared so that others avoid having to upload each and every time. You can then embed a link here at AA. I do this at my AtariBits website. BTW, registration is FREE.

 

And I forgot to say - Thank You for designing this

 

[flashjazzcat]

2 hours ago, Mazzspeed said:

Is that still a possible issue regarding Sophia 2 and U1MB? Or is it just that you can still use the monitor out with Sophia 2 installed?

The latter. If I lost the DVI signal with a new display, for example, which didn't like the current resolution, I would not want to be fumbling around with RF just to see the configuration tool (especially if the channel switch is gone). Although the point is perhaps moot if the 600XL didn't have Y/C or composite output in the first place and one did not consider it important enough to add the monitor jack regardless of whether Sophia is installed or not.

[hasanc]

39 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

The latter. If I lost the DVI signal with a new display, for example, which didn't like the current resolution, I would not want to be fumbling around with RF just to see the configuration tool (especially if the channel switch is gone). Although the point is perhaps moot if the 600XL didn't have Y/C or composite output in the first place and one did not consider it important enough to add the monitor jack regardless of whether Sophia is installed or not.

I wasn’t aware of the video signal out of range issue, that’s worrying, I’ll have to figure out what to do. Meanwhile, I was watching your videos to learn how to remove the RF modulator (without damaging the motherboard) since I was planning to install an audio jack there, but maybe I could also add composite video (using mini DIN?) in case I lose the DVI signal.

[flashjazzcat]

16 minutes ago, hasanc said:

I wasn’t aware of the video signal out of range issue, that’s worrying,

That's no fault of Sophia 2's, to be clear. It generally happens only if the selected resolution is unsupported by the display device. Example: I installed Sophia 2 in a 1200XL last week, converted to PAL (handily, with Sophia 2, one need replace only the main crystal and ANTIC). DVI signal was out of range until (in this case) I installed U1MB, updated the firmware with the Sophia 2 plugin, then changed the resolution via the plugin using the legacy video until switching to the DVI source produced a picture. Thereafter, it's difficult to lose the DVI signal since the plugin tests a newly selected resolution and reverts back to the previous one if the user doesn't acknowledge that the new one worked.

[hasanc]

1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said:

That's no fault of Sophia 2's, to be clear. It generally happens only if the selected resolution is unsupported by the display device. Example: I installed Sophia 2 in a 1200XL last week, converted to PAL (handily, with Sophia 2, one need replace only the main crystal and ANTIC). DVI signal was out of range until (in this case) I installed U1MB, updated the firmware with the Sophia 2 plugin, then changed the resolution via the plugin using the legacy video until switching to the DVI source produced a picture. Thereafter, it's difficult to lose the DVI signal since the plugin tests a newly selected resolution and reverts back to the previous one if the user doesn't acknowledge that the new one worked.

Got it. In such case, I guess it shouldn't be too hard to create an auto-bootable disk or cartridge to let me reset or change resolutions easily when I have no video signal (e.g. by blindly pressing 1, 2, 3, etc. on the keyboard to try out different resolutions).

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by hasanc

[Faicuai]

1 hour ago, hasanc said:

it shouldn't be too hard to create an auto-bootable disk or cartridge

Absolutely!

 

Same Sofia config, just requiring Space-bar as input, outputting GITA-buzzer as acknowledgement, while cycling and programming each resolution level until something shows up.

 

That's all.

[Mazzspeed]

5 hours ago, hasanc said:

I wasn’t aware of the video signal out of range issue, that’s worrying, I’ll have to figure out what to do. Meanwhile, I was watching your videos to learn how to remove the RF modulator (without damaging the motherboard) since I was planning to install an audio jack there, but maybe I could also add composite video (using mini DIN?) in case I lose the DVI signal.

You could convert the RF output in the actual RF modulator to a composite output.

[Sugarland]

12 hours ago, Faicuai said:

Absolutely!

 

Same Sofia config, just requiring Space-bar as input, outputting GITA-buzzer as acknowledgement, while cycling and programming each resolution level until something shows up.

 

That's all.

 

Or in case the board is on the bench without keyboard, joystick control.  Alternatively a hard coded XEX that sets a specific resolution requiring no input. Having a separate XEX for each resolution the device supports that would set it upon load, if possible. Perhaps giving the user a 10 second visual warning+cancel period just in case the XEX is loaded accidentally or unknowingly.

 

Another idea, have micro-switch on the Sophia to cycle through resolutions?

[Faicuai]

6 hours ago, Sugarland said:

Or in case the board is on the bench without keyboard, joystick control.

Did not think of that.

 

Your idea is much more practical, as I have been often on that exact predicament, having the test bed active and no keyboard... Joystick input (even as simple as pressing button and confirming with GTIA or Pokey buzzer, while config. utility cycles through resolutions) would be just perfect!

 

@Simius

 

Paging Simius now for a quick update to Sophia Config. allowing this simple but VERY useful change.

[hasanc]

Today I finished the Atari 600XL A/V mod by removing the RF modulator and installing a 3.5mm audio jack (I was planning to also include composite video since it's a TRRS connector, but for now it's only for audio):

 

 

 

Cheers!

 

[Mazzspeed]

29 minutes ago, hasanc said:

Today I finished the Atari 600XL A/V mod by removing the RF modulator and installing a 3.5mm audio jack (I was planning to also include composite video since it's a TRRS connector, but for now it's only for audio):

 

 

 

Cheers!

 

A very neat solution for NTSC users, good job!

[BIGHMW]

On 6/20/2021 at 1:17 AM, hasanc said:

Today I finished the Atari 600XL A/V mod by removing the RF modulator and installing a 3.5mm audio jack (I was planning to also include composite video since it's a TRRS connector, but for now it's only for audio):

 

 

 

Cheers!

 

Can this also be done for XE series computers and for the XEGS? If so, I would definitely be interested, maybe this can also spill over into the gaming console market too, as I have a 2600 Jr., a 5200, and a 7800 that could also use an HDMI mod similar to this, even though they're rockin' pretty good right now with that now-famous/now-popular RF-to-HDMI converter I (pretty much) let the whole world know about to the point where prices on them have gone up.