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Is anyone aware of a solution that lets you run a terminal program on the Atari with Fujinet that would allow the display to used on the XEP80?

 

I've tried Kermit 65 v37 - which claims to have XEP80 support no luck actually getting it to work with the XEP80 - it will load but crashes when you go to terminal

VT850B1 - which I can get loaded and running through XEP80 display but it doesn't seem to do anything

BobTerm - with XEP80 support - This one is so close to working it's baffling.  My current suspicion is the Fujinet Doc says the baud setting should be 9600 for CPM and I'm pretty sure BobTerm over the XEP80 only works at 4800

 

Note: This is just for the fun/challenge of it - not a debate on the value of XEP80.

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Hello 8bitguy1

 

4 hours ago, 8bitguy1 said:

... I'm pretty sure BobTerm over the XEP80 only works at 4800

 

I'm pretty sure you've overlooked the third file from the top when you open this link (that'll get you strait to my special stuff page and its part about the XEP80) ;-)

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

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I've seen that, but isn't it PAL only?  Regardless, I'll give it a try...

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Hello 8bitguy1

 

Yes, it seems to be fixed to PAL/50Hz, but it at least proves that 4800 baud is not the limit.  And somebody should be able to either make a version fixed to NTSC/60Hz or better yet, make a version that detects whether the computer is "PAL" or "NTSC".  The textfiles above the fixed driver tell you more about what Erhard discovered (The XEP80 is mainly busy doing nothing) and how he fixed that.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

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So I either have to get CP/M to work at 4800 baud or get the driver to work on NTSC

 

Alternatively find another terminal program that might work...

 

Super alternatively and very unlikely, write my own...

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This requires some tricky programming to pull off, I think. Even the Altirra XEP Ultra drivers block interrupts too much to run 9600 baud R:. I'm not sure how that PAL Bobterm does it, but maybe they combine XEP80 + Atari 850 driver to manage all of this? I think Thom C. said mentioned an N: version of CPM was on the roadmap somepoint, and that wouldn't have all this difficulty.

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Here is potentially a silly question... Does the machine need to be PAL or only the output from the XEP80? I ask because my monitor does both, I can just flick it back and forth...maybe I can use the PAL version..

 

Of course I could just try it...

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 8bitguy1 said:

Here is potentially a silly question... Does the machine need to be PAL or only the output from the XEP80? I ask because my monitor does both, I can just flick it back and forth...maybe I can use the PAL version..

 

Of course I could just try it...

I would be very surprised in the XEP NTSC/PAL flag made any difference. I would guess, it's because PAL Ataris run at a different clock speed, so the timing of the code to fiddle the bits from 0 to 1 and back again is slightly off on NTSC.

Edited by cathrynm

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Yeah, it didn't work.  I do have a PAL machine buried somewhere, I could give it a try.  But I don't think Bobterm is the best the solution...it doesn't emulate a VT100 terminal which is what is really needed...

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Posted (edited)

trubterm perhaps?

what version bobterm are you using?

try vt52 mode and a vt52 term cap in CP/M with bobterm and the XEP...

Edited by _The Doctor__

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for many of the applications on CP/M, there were install programs, to set terminal type.

 

-Thom

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14 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

trubterm perhaps?

what version bobterm are you using?

try vt52 mode and a vt52 term cap in CP/M with bobterm and the XEP...

Bobterm 1.21

Does Trubterm work with the XEP80? I was unaware of that...

 

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Posted (edited)

 

trubterm already does 80 columns using sdx drivers... XEP80 use probably not but I think there was some talk... I don't remember exactly, I do remember talk of VBXE use with trubterm... @trub  ?

 

think it's at version .6

 

I know it can use the 850 interface for generic terminal and other drivers get you VBXE as well as the soft80 drivers for SDX use without the vbxe... I'd think it could pump the data to the XEP80 with some work using the altira avery drivers or even the bobterm drivers... nice to have it done if possible

Edited by _The Doctor__

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So I switched to BobTerm 1.23 and this is as close as I can get. I assume the issue is the speed of the XEP80, but I could be wrong.  You have to use 9600 with CPM on the fujinet, and I just get garbled output (like a buffer is overflowing) when I enter CPM with BobTerm.  Avery's drivers may be better but I don't think I can use them with BobTerm...  

 

 

IMG_5556.JPG

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Posted (edited)

to get VT850 options screen press and hold console select key and press 3

you can set everything up there, try using the alternative xep80 drivers with it as well

please remember that bobterm only does VT52 might only be odd or even for it's term type...

you would have to set up your cp/m for the same type and parity

I forget what you can set the fujinet at and where for R: speed.... but I'm sure there's a note about it somewhere.

 

being locked at 9600 on the fujinet? that just seems wrong... must be something to change that ... even back in the day many terminals did 4800. I suspect the the fujinet and the cp/m load up might need to be set to 4800 to make it happen as it should for such a rate.

Edited by _The Doctor__

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1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said:

being locked at 9600 on the fujinet? that just seems wrong... must be something to change that ... even back in the day many terminals did 4800. I suspect the the fujinet and the cp/m load up might need to be set to 4800 to make it happen as it should for such a rate.

@tschak909 feature request?

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3 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

being locked at 9600 on the fujinet? that just seems wrong... must be something to change that ... even back in the day many terminals did 4800. I suspect the the fujinet and the cp/m load up might need to be set to 4800 to make it happen as it should for such a rate.

Works fine at 9600 baud if you have a compatible terminal program. ICE-T works for software 80-column mode, and the latest version of TrubTerm works for VBXE users. 

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1 minute ago, DrVenkman said:

Works fine at 9600 baud if you have a compatible terminal program. ICE-T works for software 80-column mode, and the latest version of TrubTerm works for VBXE users. 

yes but baud rate should still be configurable...

we are aware of ICE-T but the topic is to use the XEP80 as a challenge, I suspect it can be done but it's got to be timed just right.

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I wonder how lizard will fair, lizard is a terminal from roklan... it does baud translation as well if recalling correctly, could be fun to try

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4 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

I wonder how lizard will fair, lizard is a terminal from roklan... it does baud translation as well if recalling correctly, could be fun to try

Works pretty well if you want to scroll back and forth, no issues.  Couldn't get the output to go to the XEP80 though, tried loading it from DOS after the XEP80 driver was installed but it still came up on the regular monitor.  Pretty neat terminal program though, never heard of it until now...  

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11 hours ago, 8bitguy1 said:

So I switched to BobTerm 1.23 and this is as close as I can get. I assume the issue is the speed of the XEP80, but I could be wrong.  You have to use 9600 with CPM on the fujinet, and I just get garbled output (like a buffer is overflowing) when I enter CPM with BobTerm.  Avery's drivers may be better but I don't think I can use them with BobTerm...  

 

 

IMG_5556.JPG

I guess it's missing bytes due to interrupts being disabled in the XEP80 driver for too long a period, or there's some other kind of weird interrupt issue going on. And yeah, CPM in Fujinet is hard coded at 9600 baud in the source. If you rebuild from source, you could try changing the baud rate, but not sure if that's all that's needed to slow it down.  Might just work.

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12 hours ago, cathrynm said:

I guess it's missing bytes due to interrupts being disabled in the XEP80 driver for too long a period, or there's some other kind of weird interrupt issue going on. And yeah, CPM in Fujinet is hard coded at 9600 baud in the source. If you rebuild from source, you could try changing the baud rate, but not sure if that's all that's needed to slow it down.  Might just work.

it should. I can try to make this a bit better, as well.

-Thom

 

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On 6/8/2021 at 4:30 PM, 8bitguy1 said:

feature request?

 

5 hours ago, tschak909 said:

I just checked in a change so that when ATCPM is called from MODEM, it will use the modem's current baud rate.

This is available in the latest firmware update:

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, mozzwald said:

 

This is available in the latest firmware update:

 

It's alive!!!!  It works, I'm sure you've added dozens of users with this!!!  jk.  Seriously hat's off to you and Thom.  Really cool to have 80 columns with the XEP80 and CP/M.  (the font is nicer, perhaps not clearer ,but nicer than the Sophia2 output and software 80 columns).  Running WordStar as I type this....

 

For anyone else interested...I'm using Avery's Ultra XEP80 Driver on an NTSC system with VT850B1 (available from AtariOnline, probably elsewhere too).  I'll test other configs/terminals in the future, including Bobterm but I know VT850B1 does full VT100 emulation.  

 

Challenge complete!!!

 

Edited by 8bitguy1
Grammar
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