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flashjazzcat

U1MB, Incognito, SIDE2, SIDE3, 1088XEL/XLD Firmware 4.0 Released

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Posted (edited)

Nice but does it say if it’s a fake SD card or not ?

 

 

Edited by Level42

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Does the fat32 allocation unit size matter for these?  Should I format at 512 for Atari, or are other sizes fine too?

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24 minutes ago, Frankie said:

I got a strange Manufacture date. Could be 2009, not sure. 

Yep. Bug in printf. Try this:

 

sdtest.xex

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6 minutes ago, Level42 said:

Nice but does it say if it’s a fake SD card or not ?

Um... LOL?

6 minutes ago, Level42 said:

isn’t this simply the info that OSX (and I guess all other OSes) also show when you look for details/info about the inserted SD card ?

Well, I know this info can be obtained on Linux-based operating systems with comparative ease (I guess this is probably true of macOS too), but I wasn't able to find anything which would extract this information from my cards under Windows, and at a certain point it's quicker and more flexible to write something oneself.

 

Presumably you've already studied the CID/CSD of all your cards using the Mac and have already established whether you consider the cards fake or not, then?

6 minutes ago, cathrynm said:

Does the fat32 allocation unit size matter for these?  Should I format at 512 for Atari, or are other sizes fine too?

Not a bit. Go with the default cluster size, but any will work.

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1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said:

Here's my Sony 8GB:

 

IMG_20210726_185827457.thumb.jpg.9ffc23d32cae0ccca8ef694c77f50665.jpg

Manufacturer: Phison ? 
OEM: 9 different brands ! 

I wonder....would that _really_ be a Sony ?.....or is it a fake ?

 

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2 minutes ago, Level42 said:

OEM: 9 different brands ! 

This will be less surprising if you visit the page from which this information was derived (I linked it alongside the first download):

 

https://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/sd-memory-card-faq/reading-sd-card-cid-serial-psn-internal-numbers/

 

As for whather something is a fake or not: that unfortunately requires human intervention to decide whether what's on the box correlates with what's on the chip.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

Um... LOL?

Well, I know this info can be obtained on Linux-based operating systems with comparative ease (I guess this is probably true of macOS too), but I wasn't able to find anything which would extract this information from my cards under Windows, and at a certain point it's quicker and more flexible to write something oneself.

 

Presumably you've already studied the CID/CSD of all your cards using the Mac and have already established whether you consider the cards fake or not, then?

Not a bit. Go with the default cluster size, but any will work.

My cards are not fake. I know. 

Even so: what on earth would cause the "fakeness" of an SD card to show _exactly_ the same  100% _repeatable_ results for ALL BIN and CAR files each and every time again ? 

It just doesn't make sense if one actually tries to think about it, but I guess not everyone read exactly what the issue with the new cards is, nor thought about it much....(not talking about you Jon).

 

I would expect fake SD cards to show a larger size than it is, or work flaky (sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't) or not work at all.

 

Also, I ordered from Amazon itself and the write protection switches are grey, not yellow. But hey, maybe the fake manufacturers improved their product and changed the color of the switch.....

About the info that OSX produces: it isn't really that helpful at all. Your program produces much more interesting details.

OSX, both Disk Utility and Sys Info doesn't provide much more than this:


 

Ingebouwde SD-kaartlezer:

 

  Fabrikantcode: 0x05ac

  Productcode: 0x8403

  Revisie: 1.00

  Serienummer: 9833

 

SD Card Reader:

 

  Capaciteit: 63,86 GB (63.864.569.856 bytes)

  Verwisselbare media: Ja

  BSD-naam: disk4

  Type partitie-indeling: MBR (hoofdopstartrecord)

  Volumes:

SANDISK170:

  Beschikbaar: 63,83 GB (63.828.099.072 bytes)

  Capaciteit: 63,85 GB (63.847.792.640 bytes)

  Beschrijfbaar: Ja

  Bestandssysteem: MS-DOS FAT32

  BSD-naam: disk4s1

  Activeringspunt: /Volumes/SANDISK170

  Inhoud: DOS_FAT_32

  Volume-UUID: 5E3CD283-C73A-3702-88A3-AAE0A2B594CA

 

Edited by Level42

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14 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

Yep. Bug in printf. Try this:

 

 

That looks better. Thanks,

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Posted (edited)

Friendly lazy and totally spoilt user request:
Would it be possible to make the program to repeat in an endless loop so we can check more cards in one go (you can after all hot swap SD cards) ? 

Edited by Level42

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7 minutes ago, Level42 said:

My cards are not fake. I know. 

Even so: what on earth would cause the "fairness" of an SD card to show _exactly_ the same  100% _repeatable_ results for ALL BIN and CAR files ? 

It just doesn't make sense if one actually tries to think about it, but I guess not everyone read exactly what the issue with the new cards is.

Send the whole kit and kaboodle back to Lotharek. Maybe that will get results. It is tiring trying to speculate day after day about your problems when you use a machine with two ANTIC chips in it half the time, and have not yet tried a 74F08 in either this or the stock XE (XEs being the machines which tend to need that fix most often).

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4 minutes ago, Level42 said:

Would it be possible to make the program to repeat in an endless loop so we can check more cards in one go (you can after all hot swap SD cards) ?

Sure. I'll polish the thing up and put it on the toolkit ATR at some point when I have less to do.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

Send the whole kit and kaboodle back to Lotharek. Maybe that will get results. It is tiring trying to speculate day after day about your problems when you use a machine with two ANTIC chips in it half the time, and have not yet tried a 74F08 in either this or the stock XE (XEs being the machines which tend to need that fix most often).

Uhhhmmmm as stated before a few times.... my modded 600XL _DOES_ have the 74F08. But who knows, maybe it's a fake 74F08 ? Or my Atari is fake ?

 

I don't plan on either sending any of my beloved machines anywhere to Poland, nor do I plan on hacking my stock 130XE. Some machines I hack, some I don't. 

I don't expect you to bother about my issues anymore, as you clearly said it can't be your firmware.

It's up to the man who brilliantly developed SIDE3 to pick up the story now. However, regretfully, instead of appreciating feedback from his customers, and pro-actively taking it for something serious, he wishes to blame me of false accusations.

 

I'm just a simple user. 

 

I'm sorry that it's tiring, if anyone's tired of it, it's me. I spent a shit-load of hours to get things to work like they are supposed to be from the start !

 

I bought SIDE3 in the expectancy that it would work. I paid good money for it. 

Lotharek's website says only this about the SD cards:


 

Features:

  • Use of inexpensive, easily sourced SD cards instead of CF cards


No where does it state that SIDE3 only works with some SD cards, nor does it specify which ones were tested positively.


It also does not state, that XE machines need an 74F08 to have SIDE3 work properly.

 

Following this, I, as a customer, may expect it to work just fine on a STOCK ATARI 8 BIT COMPUTER with ANY SD card.

I can only conclude that few SD cards were tested, and probably not very much in-depth.

 

It is also very, very weird, that brand new SD Cards, manufactured by the number 1 brand in SD cards are not working without issues.

Edited by Level42

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Level42 said:

I don't plan on either sending any of my beloved machines anywhere to Poland

Fortunately that shouldn't be necessary. I was told the only obstacle to timing issues being investigated was the lack of a machine which exhibited typical problems being under the hardware designer's hands. Fortunately this situation has already been rectified, thanks to another forum member. :)

26 minutes ago, Level42 said:

I don't expect you to bother about my issues anymore, as you clearly said it can't be your firmware.

Well, it doesn't appear to be a firmware issue, but I can hardly ignore the issue since the hardware and software are co-dependent. If it turned out there was an uninitialised RAM error which didn't show up under emulation, I'd fix the problem and eat the responsibility as per usual. I simply cannot reproduce any issue at the moment, and obviously the fact half a dozen machines wouldn't work with SIDE3 until I replaced 74LS08 with a 74F08 is significant of something. I also appear to represent the primary channel of communication whether problems are firmware related or not. Sending everything back is the only way I can think of getting the matter escalated.

26 minutes ago, Level42 said:

I'm sorry that it's tiring, if anyone's tired of it, it's me. I spent a shit-load of hours to get things to work like they are supposed to be from the start !

 

I bought SIDE3 in the expectancy that it would work. I paid good money for it. 

Can't really disagree with that or any of the subsequent points. I don't mean to imply that I'm tired of trying to help; what's really tiring is that there's only so much I can do on my own.

Edited by flashjazzcat
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I get that…. You shouldn’t pick up anything that’s not really your department….


I’m more than willing to keep the cheapest new SanDisk card and send it to you as it is now so you could run some tests on real hardware.

 

You could also (after testing things) reformat it under Windows and test again….

 

But I fully understand if you have no time for this.

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3 minutes ago, Level42 said:

I’m more than willing to keep the cheapest new SanDisk card and send it to you as it is now so you could run some tests on real hardware.

 

You could also (after testing things) reformat it under Windows and test again….

 

But I fully understand if you have no time for this.

That's a great idea. I'm up for that.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Level42 said:

My cards are not fake. I know. 

Even so: what on earth would cause the "fakeness" of an SD card to show _exactly_ the same  100% _repeatable_ results for ALL BIN and CAR files each and every time again ? 

It just doesn't make sense if one actually tries to think about it, but I guess not everyone read exactly what the issue with the new cards is, nor thought about it much....(not talking about you Jon).

 

I would expect fake SD cards to show a larger size than it is, or work flaky (sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't) or not work at all.

 

Also, I ordered from Amazon itself and the write protection switches are grey, not yellow. But hey, maybe the fake manufacturers improved their product and changed the color of the switch.....

About the info that OSX produces: it isn't really that helpful at all. Your program produces much more interesting details.

OSX, both Disk Utility and Sys Info doesn't provide much more than this:


 

Ingebouwde SD-kaartlezer:

 

  Fabrikantcode: 0x05ac

  Productcode: 0x8403

  Revisie: 1.00

  Serienummer: 9833

 

SD Card Reader:

 

  Capaciteit: 63,86 GB (63.864.569.856 bytes)

  Verwisselbare media: Ja

  BSD-naam: disk4

  Type partitie-indeling: MBR (hoofdopstartrecord)

  Volumes:

SANDISK170:

  Beschikbaar: 63,83 GB (63.828.099.072 bytes)

  Capaciteit: 63,85 GB (63.847.792.640 bytes)

  Beschrijfbaar: Ja

  Bestandssysteem: MS-DOS FAT32

  BSD-naam: disk4s1

  Activeringspunt: /Volumes/SANDISK170

  Inhoud: DOS_FAT_32

  Volume-UUID: 5E3CD283-C73A-3702-88A3-AAE0A2B594CA

 

Fake SD cards will 'report' the exact right size, except the size is not what's reported, so issues result. Therefore, tests reading card specifics off the card itself may very well be worthless.

 

I don't know whether Amazon is necessarily trust worthy or not. At least one of the cards you have there should work, the fact they don't opens up the possibility of an issue with the cards themselves - We know it's not the ISO as FJC has verified the ISO works fine, and the odds of having two machines with timing issues is unlikely.

 

Read below (note: Amazon specifically mentioned):

 

https://photographylife.com/fake-memory-cards

Edited by Mazzspeed

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For what it's worth, I use a Samsung EVO 32GB microSD card in its adapter in my SIDE3. I haven't had any specific problems loading files from it, but none of the three files posted today at the end of the FujiConvert thread will play on my 1200XL+U1MB+SIDE3 combo, nor does a file I converted myself using the recommended settings. I get a brief message at the bottom of the Loader as it reads the file, then a black screen. 

 

And yes, the U1MB firmware and Side3 Loader are freshly updated just tonight to the latest downloaded from Jon's site. 

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You can never tell when things are fake now. Even from big name suppliers. There's a rash of fake bosch o2 sensors right now. I've seen fake spark plugs sold at Napa. When Radioshack was still in business I bought 2 usb to serial adapters same part # , same packaging, looked identical from the same physical store. One ended up being a fake that was killed by a software update by the manufacturer, specifically to kill fakes. There was a bunch of msd ignition boxes sold by Amazon, Summit, Jegs that were fake. Instead of the cd ignition they had a cheap gm module in the potting. Clue was all had the same serial number. Price of doing business in China. 

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22 minutes ago, chevymad said:

Price of doing business in China.

A price we should no longer accept... seems like one of the few, solid conclusions we can make out of this recent bug-hunt.

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26 minutes ago, chevymad said:

There's a rash of fake bosch o2 sensors right now.

Also Denso; I know of a mechanic who was bit hard by that and is still fighting with Napa over it.

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4 minutes ago, chevymad said:

You can never tell when things are fake now. Even from big name suppliers. There's a rash of fake bosch o2 sensors right now. I've seen fake spark plugs sold at Napa. When Radioshack was still in business I bought 2 usb to serial adapters same part # , same packaging, looked identical from the same physical store. One ended up being a fake that was killed by a software update by the manufacturer, specifically to kill fakes. There was a bunch of msd ignition boxes sold by Amazon, Summit, Jegs that were fake. Instead of the cd ignition they had a cheap gm module in the potting. Clue was all had the same serial number. Price of doing business in China. 

There's definitely a rash of garbage in the automotive parts industry.  Hard to know when you are getting a part safe to use at times.

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11 minutes ago, Stephen said:

There's definitely a rash of garbage in the automotive parts industry.  Hard to know when you are getting a part safe to use at times.

Hence the reason I had no problem paying $800.00 for a genuine Nippon Denso narrow band AFR sensor for the MPS from the dealer...

 

Nothing worse than chasing a problem that wasn't fixed because you thought you found something 'vastly' cheaper online.

 

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From what I have seen posted lately on the forums, and what I've seen on my own FujiNet, it appears that SD cards are plagued by the same uncertainties as the CF cards that came before. Meaning that you have to try several different ones to find the ones that work 100% reliably.

 

So I was reading a bit about the interface and came across the mention of using SPI mode.

 

Quote

SD cards operate with a default bus protocol of SD mode. However, if a simpler or slower bus is needed, the card can be configured for SPI mode. While in SPI mode, SD cards operate in one-bit bus widths. In SD mode, the cards use a serial clock mode for bus widths of between one and four bits.

 

When the SD card is put into SD or SPI mode, it cannot be switched to the other mode while power is applied. However, the modes can be switched during a power cycle as needed.

LINK

 

I know developers would always prefer to maximize through-put, but perhaps SPI mode might allow for a more universal interface, able to work with any brand of SD card. For versatility, it could possibly use a toggle function in the setup to use either SD or SPI mode. Also if you think about it, why does the SD port in PCs, and Android tablets just work with virtually any card that's thrown at it. Perhaps studying what they are doing might yield some answers as well. Just a thought :)

 

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I had one 2GB SanDisk SD card that didn't work, and it's about ten years old. The other two cards I tried work perfectly with outstanding performance.

 

The user in question ordered three cards of different makes at the one time, how unlucky does one have to be? There's either a problem with that particular SIDE3, or the cards are fakes. As I believe the SIDE3 has been tried on two different A8's and exhibited the same issues on both while FJC has verified the ISO as working.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

That's a great idea. I'm up for that.

Maybe it's a good idea to throw in the SIDE3 card as well.

 

Only problem is that bloody Brexit .... How can I send it over (and you back) without us having to pay import duties and costs, even worse: it staying at customs for weeks....

 

 

I ordered a vinyl record about 1 month ago and it's still at bloody Dutch customs, and I already paid the duties on-line last week, and still the post service says it hasn't received it yet.....

 

Before Brexit it took about 3 working days to get anything from the UK.
It feels like being thrown back to the stone-age. Decided to never order anything from the UK again.

 

Edited by Level42

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