Would "Little PAM" (a.k.a. "5200 Jr." or "5100") sold more 5200 units and leveled/eclipsed sales with ColecoVision???

[BIGHMW]

I believe so, indeed due to its more compact design it most certainly would've sold more 5200 units due to taking out that (somewhat) unnecessary controller storage bin and maybe we can make this happen if we lobby for CollectorVision (the very same guys who devised the Phoenix ColecoVision-compatible unit which quickly sold out) to maybe manufacture it and maybe for AtariAge to sell it here to US (and anyone else) here. I would most certainly buy one, provided she be both 100% compatible with all existing cartridges and accessories and also have a built-in 4-port BIOS, a huge 64K of RAM (equal to the XEGS, and I believe that the late Curt Wendel was thinking of devising a 5200 RAM upgrade kit IIRC from some threads here on AA) in her as well as onboard RF, composite and HDMI outputs for either old-school CRT gaming or that of modern 4K UHD-TVs as well.

 

Would YOU guys (and gals) buy one too??? My 5200's size makes it almost too big for me compared to my 7800 and XEGS but yet I still enjoy playing my 5200 games more.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by BIGHMW

[toiletunes]

When I look into getting a new system, the first thing I ask is "are there any games I want to play?"

 The second thing i ask is "how much is it?"

 

I have never asked "how big is it?"

[Cebus Capucinis]

11 minutes ago, toiletunes said:

I have never asked "how big is it?"

Quoted out of context for posterity.

[BIGHMW]

I most certainly think that Little PAM's size would've made her more attractive to those who wanted their systems to be more compact, look at the sales increase Mattel had when they came out with Intellivision II, in which outsold the original and made it more attractive to most gamers by adding detachable/user-replaceable controllers and a much smaller size. I remember getting my old Intellivision II back in 1985 in a somewhat collateral trade/loan in exchange for a pair of Sony MDR headphones, in which the other party broke, and I went on to support it even after moving to Port Townsend in 1987 from L.A. just as greatly as I did with the 5200, I would never have thought of the same with the original INTV.

 

.....and they say, "the bigger the better" yeah RIGHT!!! WRONG!!!

[Goochman]

The 5200's big innovation was the joystick.  It sucked, word got out, the games didnt look "Super" for a "Super System" and Breakout was the packin.  I think you can align the 5200 with the Edsel and Pontiac Aztek for hype vs reality on delivery.

 

I dont remember anyone saying it was so big they didnt buy it.

[christo930]

I think it would have depended on if "Little PAM" was significantly less expensive.  Perhaps if they could have got the cost down enough with a board redesign or something, but that doesn't seem probable that it could have been done then.  $269 in 1982 was a decent chunk of change. So if a redesign that was smaller could be sold for under $200, especially if they could have included a 2600 adapter for that sub 200 price, then, yea, I would say it could have helped  a lot.

The Colecovision was selling for $175  While Coleco was using off the shelf chips, Atari was using its own chips. One assumes their own chips were cheaper for them. Though, as I understand it, the 5200 used 3 custom chips plus a 6502 while the Colecovision was only using 3 chips all together.

I don't think its size was holding it back much.  It's big compared to other game systems, but it's not exactly an arcade cabinet. In 1982, there were still large top loading VCRs being sold. Only as it relates to pricing do I think the size hurt it.

[+x=usr(1536)]

Stop fat-shaming Big Sexy.

[+DamonicFury]

On 6/12/2021 at 8:19 PM, BIGHMW said:

... maybe we can make this happen if we lobby for CollectorVision (the very same guys who devised the Phoenix ColecoVision-compatible unit which quickly sold out) to maybe manufacture it and maybe for AtariAge to sell it here to US (and anyone else) here.

 

I really, really wouldn't expect much enthusiasm from those guys for this kind of project... their passion is for the Colecovision platform and they have a pretty full slate of projects for it planned that will taken them years to achieve.  At best, maybe, possibly, someday they might add a 5200 core to the existing Phoenix system so that it can play 5200 ROMs.  But even that's unlikely and wouldn't show up anytime soon.

 

But if we're spittballing a modern Atari dream machine, why not one that can run both 5200 AND 800/XL/XE software, with cart slots and controller ports for both, an SIO port, and tons of RAM, along with all the modern stuff (HDMI/SD card/USB etc.)  Or if you REALLY want to go nuts, add in 2600/7800 compatibility as well!  

[1980gamer]

On 6/12/2021 at 9:02 PM, BIGHMW said:

I most certainly think that Little PAM's size would've made her more attractive to those who wanted their systems to be more compact, look at the sales increase Mattel had when they came out with Intellivision II, in which outsold the original and made it more attractive to most gamers by adding detachable/user-replaceable controllers and a much smaller size. I remember getting my old Intellivision II back in 1985 in a somewhat collateral trade/loan in exchange for a pair of Sony MDR headphones, in which the other party broke, and I went on to support it even after moving to Port Townsend in 1987 from L.A. just as greatly as I did with the 5200, I would never have thought of the same with the original INTV.

 

.....and they say, "the bigger the better" yeah RIGHT!!! WRONG!!!

Are you cutting the price in half for the 5200?  Yes, it would have sold more!

The Intellivision was $279 to $299 at release.

The Intellivision II was $149 or less at release.  I don't know where you got sales numbers?  But let's just say it sold more.

 

Yes, detachable controllers were a nice touch.  The Sears version had this to start.  So, you could have just got that version early on.

 

I'd rather see the 5200 core added to the phoenix and use the expansion port to create the controller ports or use Coleco controllers as digital, as an option.

The 5200 has a few games I like, most I can play on other hardware.  But an HDMI output would be nice if a new console was created.

 

 

 

[TwoShedsWilson]

I'd be thrilled for something along the lines of the PolyMega for the pre-NES era. You would't need crazy hardware or space. I'm over the whole "real hardware" phase and I just want an easy way to play the games. And before Mister comes up again, I want a nice interface. Something the Mister definitely does not have. Honestly if a decent controller option for the 5200/Intellivision/Colecovision existed I'd be perfectly happy with a Pi.

[BassGuitari]

On 6/12/2021 at 7:19 PM, BIGHMW said:

Would "Little PAM" (a.k.a. "5200 Jr." or "5100") sold more 5200 units and leveled/eclipsed sales with ColecoVision???

No.

 

Despite all the latter-day wisecracks, neither the 5200's size nor its joystick storage compartment were common complaints about the system, nor reasons people bought Colecos instead. (Although they did make it somewhat distinctive--a 1997 EGM blurb about the system remarked that "The first thing that comes to mind about the 5200 is its size...")

[coachbrj]

I love the 5200 and would definitely consider a smaller one. Especially with HDMI output. However, I would want it smaller than you propose. Sort of the size of the NES Classic, and able to connect my original controllers.

[Lynxpro]

No. The 5100 eliminated the Expansion Port. No dice.

 

You want to improve the 5200? Design a thin PCB to replace the flex circuit in the CX52.

[BIGHMW]

15 hours ago, Lynxpro said:

You want to improve the 5200? Design a thin PCB to replace the flex circuit in the CX52.

Why don't you just get the Best gold-modded CX52 instead. Problem solved as far as the fire-buttons and keypad issues are concerned.

 

The thin PCB is not a bad idea but only if you include cold contacts on the circuitry. 

 

I hope one of these days Best comes out with a fully-assembled, replacement PCB with gold-plated contacts for the CX53 Trak-Ball, that'll certainly be a game changer and would be an easy install even for us here at home, include bigger and better built pop-o-matic fire button contacts much like they do for the CX24/CX78/CX40 and that will make me consider (if it came down to only one system), making the 5200 my number one if not my only unit, and then all we need from there is a proper re-port of (CX5201) 5200 Asteroids (just port the 8-bit version over in which works perfectly rather than tinkering around with Todd Frye's 1982 5200 port, in which he botched, it can be better) and that's it.

Edited June 30, 2021 by BIGHMW

[BIGHMW]

35 minutes ago, BIGHMW said:

then all we need from there is a proper re-port of (CX5201) 5200 Asteroids (just port the 8-bit version over in which works perfectly rather than tinkering around with Todd Frye's 1982 5200 port, in which he botched, it can be better) and that's it.

Here is that 8-bit version of Asteroids I'm hoping somebody can port over to the 5200, and that'll obviously (and finally) solve/settle the problem with the original 1982 5200 port that Todd Frye obviously botched, this would make the 5200 my number one unit if not my only unit if it came down to it.

Asteroids.xex

Edited June 30, 2021 by BIGHMW

[Lynxpro]

6 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

Why don't you just get the Best gold-modded CX52 instead. Problem solved as far as the fire-buttons and keypad issues are concerned.

 

The thin PCB is not a bad idea but only if you include cold contacts on the circuitry. 

 

I hope one of these days Best comes out with a fully-assembled, replacement PCB with gold-plated contacts for the CX53 Trak-Ball, that'll certainly be a game changer and would be an easy install even for us here at home, include bigger and better built pop-o-matic fire button contacts much like they do for the CX24/CX78/CX40 and that will make me consider (if it came down to only one system), making the 5200 my number one if not my only unit, and then all we need from there is a proper re-port of (CX5201) 5200 Asteroids (just port the 8-bit version over in which works perfectly rather than tinkering around with Todd Frye's 1982 5200 port, in which he botched, it can be better) and that's it.

 

The CX53 Trak-Ball doesn't need gold plated contacts. It uses dome switches for its buttons, not carbon dots.

[Lynxpro]

On 6/15/2021 at 11:20 AM, DamonicFury said:

 

 

 

But if we're spittballing a modern Atari dream machine, why not one that can run both 5200 AND 800/XL/XE software, with cart slots and controller ports for both, an SIO port, and tons of RAM, along with all the modern stuff (HDMI/SD card/USB etc.)  Or if you REALLY want to go nuts, add in 2600/7800 compatibility as well!  

 

Because the 5200 is a proper console. To tell a 5200 fan to get an Atari 8-bit computer if they want expansion is like telling a Colecovision fan to give it up and buy an MSX computer for easy expansion and a larger software library. Funk that. The CX53 Trak-Ball is life. Now give me my damn 64K RAM upgrade so we can port A8 Space Harrier but with analog control like the arcade original.

[Lynxpro]

On 6/12/2021 at 5:19 PM, BIGHMW said:

I would most certainly buy one, provided she be both 100% compatible with all existing cartridges and accessories and also have a built-in 4-port BIOS, a huge 64K of RAM (equal to the XEGS, and I believe that the late Curt Wendel was thinking of devising a 5200 RAM upgrade kit IIRC from some threads here on AA) in her as well as onboard RF, composite and HDMI outputs for either old-school CRT gaming or that of modern 4K UHD-TVs as well.

 

 

 

The late Curt VENDEL. Yes, he was speculating on how easy it would be to design a PCB that would plug into the ANTIC socket and provide additional RAM and a PIA so an SIO Port could be used.

[rubeon]

On 6/14/2021 at 1:10 PM, Goochman said:

The 5200's big innovation was the joystick.  It sucked, word got out, the games didnt look "Super" for a "Super System" and Breakout was the packin.  I think you can align the 5200 with the Edsel and Pontiac Aztek for hype vs reality on delivery.

 

I dont remember anyone saying it was so big they didnt buy it.

I agree that size wasn't a factor; we got ours for Christmas '82 and it sat on the floor in front of an equally-oversized television that took up half the room anyway.

 

I disagree about the joystick, though.  It was a bit of a shock when you first used it, but it wasn't even the second-worst controller at the time.  Remember, it was competing with the absolutely dismal ColecoVision and Intellivision controllers in a race to the bottom. It took a while for the reliability issue to become clear, which was the real problem with the CX52.

 

I also disagree that the games didn't impress.  Pac-man looked like Pac-man, Galaxian was arcade-quality, and Missile Command was the envy of all my friends. It was next level compared to the VCS, and that was the standard of the time. Sure, there were other consoles pushing the state of the art, but back then when you played games you "played Atari", much like you "played Nintendo" a few years later.  The 5200 blew the VCS away, and held its own against Mattel and Coleco's offerings for the most part.

 

Financial reality doomed the 5200. It would have been a fine console entry, but Atari's heart wasn't really in it.

[leech]

On 6/30/2021 at 9:58 PM, Lynxpro said:

 

The late Curt VENDEL. Yes, he was speculating on how easy it would be to design a PCB that would plug into the ANTIC socket and provide additional RAM and a PIA so an SIO Port could be used.

Does anyone have anymore information on this?  I mean feasibility wise... could someone mod the U1MB to a 5200? 

[BIGHMW]

9 hours ago, leech said:

Does anyone have anymore information on this?  I mean feasibility wise... could someone mod the U1MB to a 5200? 

THAT would be cool. A U1MB for Big Sexy would be great, as long as it allowed 5200 owners to enjoy most (if not all) .xex, .rom, and .car (and maybe .atr) files on her. Also, AtariMax (or The Brewing Academy) could make a new multicart that could both take and run BOTH 5200 AND A8/XL/XE/XEGS-compatible files.

 

Imagine playing some of the Class of this year's ABBUC Software Contest including @shanti77's winning entry Gacek, in which is THE BEST Bomb Jack variant I have ever played on an XEGS, and also @popmilo's top 5 finisher, Blokz, and many others, new possibilities await!!!

[leech]

1 hour ago, BIGHMW said:

THAT would be cool. A U1MB for Big Sexy would be great, as long as it allowed 5200 owners to enjoy most (if not all) .xex, .rom, and .car (and maybe .atr) files on her. Also, AtariMax (or The Brewing Academy) could make a new multicart that could both take and run BOTH 5200 AND A8/XL/XE/XEGS-compatible files.

 

Imagine playing some of the Class of this year's ABBUC Software Contest including @shanti77's winning entry Gacek, in which is THE BEST Bomb Jack variant I have ever played on an XEGS, and also @popmilo's top 5 finisher, Blokz, and many others, new possibilities await!!!

Well, here is what I was thinking...

1) memory bump of course.

2) hacked OS ROM to translate the controllers so they act like standard 8-bit controllers.  Then xex/ATR support. 

 

At that point we would need to figure out a keyboard interface... for anything more advanced.

[BIGHMW]

11 hours ago, leech said:

Well, here is what I was thinking...

1) memory bump of course.

2) hacked OS ROM to translate the controllers so they act like standard 8-bit controllers.  Then xex/ATR support. 

 

At that point we would need to figure out a keyboard interface... for anything more advanced.

THAT last one, the keyboard interface, was why I think Atari just said 'f' it and came out with the XEGS back in 1987. They knew the mistakes they made in which they COULD'VE made right with the 5200, so instead of re-releasing Big Sexy with keyboard support, they basically created a whole new console. Lo and behold we now stand at a crossroads where we are all now fighting and bickering over which console would we own if it came down to a financial standpoint in which we could only have one or the other and had it not been for this BS about "developers' rights", everything 5200 would've been readily available for the 8-bit lineup as well, including the XEGS, as there are about 20 titles (plus a few A8-to-5200 conversions that are superior on the 5200 like Paul Lay's most-recent Asteroids conversion and also Super Breakout among others) that are 5200 exclusives (including the brilliant Tempest and the entire Mean Hamster Software lineup) in which would be great to play on her, it's those 20 titles, that are why I still have Big Sexy as well as an XEGS.

 

The 5200 has her advantages and strengths, the XEGS does too, including, very notably, a massive library of titles, and 4x the RAM (64K on the XEGS vs. 16K on the 5200), that, and probably only that, is what cripples the 5200 from having great games like Albert, Gacek, Blokz, Time Pilot, Arkanoid, Food Fight, Dr. Mario, Lode Runner, and many others. They need more RAM to run them on, now, can you imagine Big Sexy running those same titles (and many more) if she had the same muscle mass to go along with her overall mass??? Between that and also the expanded lineup of BOTH digital AND analog controller possibilities we have now with Redemption, Masterplay, Retro Game Boyz, Maker Matrix, Competition Pro, and others as well as all the OG Atari and Wico analog controller lineup including the CX53 Trak-Ball. Any game that does not need the full keyboard of the A8 or XEGS would run great on her, oh, if Curt Vendel was still with us right now.....

 

(EDIT - 11:55 am)

 

........oh, and did I not forget to mention that the XEGS DOES NOT play 2600 titles to go along with her own lineup of titles too??? Only the 5200 has the VCS (2600) adapter, in which adds a couple of thousand titles to its lineup from her as well. TWO UNITS IN ONE, sorry XEGS owners  

Edited November 30, 2021 by BIGHMW
to add the afterthought

[leech]

3 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

........oh, and did I not forget to mention that the XEGS DOES NOT play 2600 titles to go along with her own lineup of titles too??? Only the 5200 has the VCS (2600) adapter, in which adds a couple of thousand titles to its lineup from her as well. TWO UNITS IN ONE, sorry XEGS owners

Ha, unless you have an unmodded 4-port, as the VCS adapter will apparently make it sizzle.

 

So I guess the question would be, what would be easier?  Getting Analog sticks / 5200 peripherals to work on the XEGS?  Or getting something like a U1MB / Incognito modified to work with a 5200, but it'd also need a keyboard somehow.  There are already ways to get DB9 sticks to work on the 5200.

 

Edit: Wonder what it'd take to get some sort of translation for 2600 games to work on an XEGS flash cart.

Edited November 30, 2021 by leech

[phuzaxeman]

On 7/5/2021 at 6:41 PM, rubeon said:

I agree that size wasn't a factor; we got ours for Christmas '82 and it sat on the floor in front of an equally-oversized television that took up half the room anyway.

 

I disagree about the joystick, though.  It was a bit of a shock when you first used it, but it wasn't even the second-worst controller at the time.  Remember, it was competing with the absolutely dismal ColecoVision and Intellivision controllers in a race to the bottom. It took a while for the reliability issue to become clear, which was the real problem with the CX52.

 

I also disagree that the games didn't impress.  Pac-man looked like Pac-man, Galaxian was arcade-quality, and Missile Command was the envy of all my friends. It was next level compared to the VCS, and that was the standard of the time. Sure, there were other consoles pushing the state of the art, but back then when you played games you "played Atari", much like you "played Nintendo" a few years later.  The 5200 blew the VCS away, and held its own against Mattel and Coleco's offerings for the most part.

 

Financial reality doomed the 5200. It would have been a fine console entry, but Atari's heart wasn't really in it.

Spot on post. The 5200 sticks were better than Coleco and Intellivision. Atari could have invested so much more than it did in 82.  Still my favorite atari console.