Could R-Type be done on the 7800???

[Cebus Capucinis]

10 minutes ago, CPUWIZ said:

Is there a list? 

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

2 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

I was just curious to see how the R-9 star ship could look on the 7800. Although most of the graphics should be done in 160A mode, nothing prevents you from doing some graphics with 160B mode, including the R-9 star ship.   In any case, the 7800 version would have more color depth than the Commodore 64 version, in fact it would be possible to have at least 25 colors on screen from a palette of 256 colors.

 

 

 

 

The 160B version looks awesome.  It's just right.

[CPUWIZ]

4 hours ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

 

 

 

 

[+Muddyfunster]

6 hours ago, CPUWIZ said:

Is there a list? 

I'll add this list to the list of lists.

[leech]

9 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

I never played R-Type until this thread. Over the weekend, I realized I have a pretty decent library of SMS roms on my Genesis Everdrive cart. I loaded up R-Type and spent 30 minutes acquainting myself with the game. Now I know why it's a classic.

 

If the SMS could do it, the 7800 should be able to as well. 

Seriously, one of my favorites of all time.  When I want to play a shooter, it is either this or Raiden.  Mostly this though.  Perfect for the 7800.  The remake one I bought, I tried pushing all the buttons, but still need to figure out how to do the power shot as the buttons are mapped funky, and holding down the one that fires just auto-fires. 

 

The SMS one is a nearly perfect port, but the ship is smaller, so easier to dodge.

[edweird13]

gimmie gimmie gimmie

[+MattelAquarius]

I may be misremembering this quote and its source, but it seems quite apt for this discussion:

Quote

 

But why, some say, R-Type? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask, why climb the highest ladder in Donkey Kong PK? Why, Pacman Collection? Why do we play Bentley Bear, BeefDrop or R&V?

We choose to develop R-Type for the Atari 7800 ProSystem in this decade, not because it is easy, but because it is hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win.
—Theodore J. Mooney

 

 

[+Stephen]

13 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

I was just curious to see how the R-9 star ship could look on the 7800. Although most of the graphics should be done in 160A mode, nothing prevents you from doing some graphics with 160B mode, including the R-9 star ship.   In any case, the 7800 version would have more color depth than the Commodore 64 version, in fact it would be possible to have at least 25 colors on screen from a palette of 256 colors.

Well, that right there proves the game can be done!  See all you haters.

[Synthpopalooza]

The real tale will be the ability to move a buttload of sprites of course.  I think it can be done.

 

Time to bang out a tune on DFM.

[+Stephen]

Arcade hardware was a 16-bit 8086 compatible running at 8MHz with a dedicated Z80 and custom sound chip.  7800 has a 1.79MHz 6502, 4kB of total RAM.  I watched the level 3 play through of the arcade version - dozens of animated sprites with a ship almost as big as the entire background.  I'd say the 7800 has as much a chance of doing this game as the Jaguar has of running Quake.  I'd love to be proven wrong.  I guess we just need to find that mystical "untapped power" that hasn't been exploited since 1984.

[+Muddyfunster]

33 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Arcade hardware was a 16-bit 8086 compatible running at 8MHz with a dedicated Z80 and custom sound chip.  7800 has a 1.79MHz 6502, 4kB of total RAM.  I watched the level 3 play through of the arcade version - dozens of animated sprites with a ship almost as big as the entire background.  I'd say the 7800 has as much a chance of doing this game as the Jaguar has of running Quake.  I'd love to be proven wrong.  I guess we just need to find that mystical "untapped power" that hasn't been exploited since 1984.

I agree,

 

It would depend on how close to the original you want the theoretical conversion to be. If the expectation is to be arcade perfect with the parallax scrolling etc, well that's very unlikely on the 7800 with the volume of other stuff going on at the same time.

 

An adaption of the Arcade would probably be doable in some way, with compromises to work within the hardware limitations of the 7800. All of the conversions we see for 8bit home systems are adaptations influenced and tempered by the limitations of the recipient host platform, at best they look to capture as much of the essence of the original as they can. I know for many people reading these boards, that's common sense and I'm preaching to the choir  but it needs to be said. 

 

 

[+DrVenkman]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

Arcade hardware was a 16-bit 8086 compatible running at 8MHz with a dedicated Z80 and custom sound chip.  7800 has a 1.79MHz 6502, 4kB of total RAM.  I watched the level 3 play through of the arcade version - dozens of animated sprites with a ship almost as big as the entire background.  I'd say the 7800 has as much a chance of doing this game as the Jaguar has of running Quake.  I'd love to be proven wrong.  I guess we just need to find that mystical "untapped power" that hasn't been exploited since 1984.

Sure, but ... the SMS version is quite excellent from the bit I've seen and played. Why not aim to match that, or at least do something in that vein? There are a ton of home versions of arcade games where the hardware differences are stark and if you just look at the specs, sure. You won't duplicate it. But you can often capture the essence of what makes a game great on lesser hardware. 

[leech]

27 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Sure, but ... the SMS version is quite excellent from the bit I've seen and played. Why not aim to match that, or at least do something in that vein? There are a ton of home versions of arcade games where the hardware differences are stark and if you just look at the specs, sure. You won't duplicate it. But you can often capture the essence of what makes a game great on lesser hardware. 

Same thing I was going to say, but got distracted by work.  ?

[Synthpopalooza]

I likewise believe in 160B for the ship, 160A for enemies and background graphics.  Whether it can handle all the sprites is another matter.  Does SMS do it without flicker?

[+Defender_2600]

4 hours ago, Stephen said:

I watched the level 3 play through of the arcade version - dozens of animated sprites with a ship almost as big as the entire background.  I'd say the 7800 has as much a chance of doing this game as the Jaguar has of running Quake.  I'd love to be proven wrong.  I guess we just need to find that mystical "untapped power" that hasn't been exploited since 1984.

 

 

[7800Knight]

That is an impressive mockup.

[+Defender_2600]

14 minutes ago, 7800Knight said:

That is an impressive mockup.

 

In truth, this is already working on 7800 real hardware ...

 

playsoft

Portal¹⁷ | Mar 31, 2021 | Development

Edited June 25, 2021 by Defender_2600

[+Stephen]

35 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said:

 

 

I have put my foot in my mouth.  That's a great mockup, and I obviously know nothing of the 7800.  That's wicked impressive - and it does make the 7800 look a step above the 5200 (8-bit computer) series.  Carry on fellas.

[leech]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

I have put my foot in my mouth.  That's a great mockup, and I obviously know nothing of the 7800.  That's wicked impressive - and it does make the 7800 look a step above the 5200 (8-bit computer) series.  Carry on fellas.

Yeah, I would hazard that if the 7800 hadn't been gimped with the TIA and had POKEY or even AMY (which if I recall was being worked on around that time?) It would have been a much better system than the NES.  SMS I think would have still beaten it hardware wise.  The problem really with any non-NES system in the 80s simply was because Nintendo cheated.  Hardware wise it kind of sucks.

Edited June 25, 2021 by leech

[+mksmith]

2 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

 

 

How did I not see this - I am absolutely gobsmacked the 7800 can do this.  @playsoft this is amazing!!

[Crimefighter]

On 6/17/2021 at 10:32 PM, SlidellMan said:

Irem skipped the NES/Famicom because they didn't think that it could handle the game.

Couldn't handle it?  If it could handle multiple Gradius games, it could handle R-Type.

Someone did a hack of an existing game to make an NES version of R-Type --
 

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Crimefighter

[juansolo]

6 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

 

 

That looks utterly stunning. Uridium was one of my favourite games back in the day but it was just too bloody hard with the speed and the walls. This looks to have the essence of it and has made it into a much more playable game. I'm just blown away by that and hope it becomes a completed game at some point.

[oky2000]

OK I am no 7800 expert but the machine seems to have similar characteristics/compromises as the C64 version would have, fat pixels and hardware scrolling with hardware sprites. At this point no doubt people trot off and look up that official last second cobbled together version which was just a re-skin of the underwhelming Katakis game (which Activision took Rainbow Arts to court over and won but due to delays in their farmed out conversion Activision got them to do a quick and dirty conversion of Katakis to R-Type but oops the level 1 rotating turrets DON'T rotate).

 

Here is a good idea of what I think it would look like based on the abandoned original port of R-Type to C64...

 

[BIGHMW]

On 6/23/2021 at 6:44 PM, CPUWIZ said:

Is there a list? 

Yeah and you just made it  

 

 

 

[+Defender_2600]

On 6/25/2021 at 3:43 AM, Synthpopalooza said:

I likewise believe in 160B for the ship, 160A for enemies and background graphics. 

 

It is possible to use the 160B mode in the circumstances that allow it, for example the Dobkeratops screen is almost without background graphics, so it could be done in 160B, leaving its tail in 160A. I couldn't resist, so here's a mock-up..