+DrVenkman Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, mytek said: suddenly everything opened up and I was able to go with all THT components If the Forum software allowed me to ? a post, I would do so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) Hello Herb 1 hour ago, DrVenkman said: If the Forum software allowed me to ? a post, I would do so. You could try asking @Albert if he can add that option. Sincerely Mathy Edited July 2, 2021 by Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 Hello Michael 3 hours ago, mytek said: The board is still intended to grab power from the Joystick Port, so that USB power connector is to provide power to the AV2HDMI converter. Would it be possible to automatically switch the power source from Atari to USB when the AV2HDMI is used? Without the AV2HDMI the USB power source would not be needed (XEP80-II would be fed by the Atari), but when the AV2HDMI would be plugged in, you'd reduce the amount of current drawn from the Atari. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 2, 2021 Author Share Posted July 2, 2021 4 hours ago, Mathy said: Would it be possible to automatically switch the power source from Atari to USB when the AV2HDMI is used? Without the AV2HDMI the USB power source would not be needed (XEP80-II would be fed by the Atari), but when the AV2HDMI would be plugged in, you'd reduce the amount of current drawn from the Atari. I'll have to check the power draw on the converter. I suspect that it won't be too terrible and shouldn't pose a problem with an Atari using the 1.5 amp PSU. As for the 1 amp supply it could be a problem, but perhaps it's time for an upgrade in that case 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdivancic Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 If you need a volunteer to case design I would love to take a crack at it, assuming you haven’t already recruited Mr Robot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 2, 2021 Author Share Posted July 2, 2021 27 minutes ago, mdivancic said: If you need a volunteer to case design I would love to take a crack at it, assuming you haven’t already recruited Mr Robot. It'll be a while before I've locked in the design, ordered samples, assembled, and tested the final board. Until then, it really makes no sense to design a case. However I definitely appreciate your offer and will keep it in mind, since Mr Robot is obviously quite busy lately 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 Testing S-Video Pass-Thru to AV2HDMI converter Now I wasn't expecting it to be of RetroTink quality, and initially it was no where near that. But what I saw had an over modulated look to it, as if the gain was set way too high. So I brought out some resistors and created a voltage divider on the LUMA input going to the converter (75 ohm series connected resistor, with 150 ohms to ground). With that divider this is what I ended up with (HDMI video capture). The reality looks just as good if not better. BTW, this is the PAL S-video output coming from my 576NUC+ converted to HDMI, so one can expect the same results from a UAV modified system. I did a side by side comparision between the RetroTink and the Wiistar converter, and there really isn't much difference (EDIT: albeit with my resistor attenuator on the Wiistar's LUMA). So I started this project looking to create a reproduction of the XEP80 with a high quality standardized video output, but now it appears that I will also have a device that renders the Atari 40 column screen in a most beautiful way along side the 80 column video and view-able on a common HDTV For the actual video switching between the 40 and 80 column output, I will be using a MAX4619 triple analog SPDT switch IC. It's a drop-in for the old CMOS CD4053, but has a substantially lower ON resistance (8-10 ohms vs 120 ohms). 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 30 minutes ago, mytek said: I did a side by side comparision between the RetroTink and the Wiistar converter, and there really isn't much difference (EDIT: albeit with my resistor attenuator on the Wiistar's LUMA). It looks good. Any data on latency of the Wiistar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 18 minutes ago, MrFish said: It looks good. Any data on latency of the Wiistar? I can't see any, but that's subjective since I'm not a gamer and 65 years old Here's a few more captures (still in PAL mode). 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenames99 Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 hey Michael, great job on this! I will take at least 1 and give you that little heart icon thing too. and here is my happy face. Ken 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 3 hours ago, mytek said: I was about to criticize these two images (the others look fine); but now I see all the images uploaded are jpegs, which most likely is doing a disservice to the quality. I suggest using a lossless format (PNG, etc.) instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 2 hours ago, MrFish said: I was about to criticize these two images (the others look fine); but now I see all the images uploaded are jpegs, which most likely is doing a disservice to the quality. I suggest using a lossless format (PNG, etc.) instead. OK... not really sure how best to respond to that. Afterall they were all much lower rez example images then the one I previously posted of the color chart, but still show a very clean background, good color and luminance levels, which was actually my intention. Trust me when I say the real deal on my 55" HDTV looks extremely nice. The only thing lacking as compared to a RetroTink (which I have), is that it won't properly show something like Flickerterm, which uses a software generated interlace. Not too much stuff that does that, and in the case of Flickerterm kinda a moot point considering that the main focus of this project is to provide hardware 80 column text. Speaking of which, that really is the main focus, so I should probably get back to that BTW, the original reason for experimenting with the HDMI converter was to provide a more standardized modern output for the 80 column video. The fact that I'm also getting a rather nice conversion of the Atari standard video to HDMI as well, is just icing on the cake at this point. Not trying to sway people away from buying a RetroTink, Frame meister, or Amberry converter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, mytek said: OK... not really sure how best to respond to that. Afterall they were all much lower rez example images then the one I previously posted of the color chart, but still show a very clean background, good color and luminance levels, which was actually my intention. It's alright, they just show some JPEG artifacts; I'll just imagine they're not there. 43 minutes ago, mytek said: Trust me when I say the real deal on my 55" HDTV looks extremely nice. The only thing lacking as compared to a RetroTink (which I have), is that it won't properly show something like Flickerterm, which uses a software generated interlace. Flickerterm isn't really much of a loss -- when talking about a low-cost converter. 43 minutes ago, mytek said: BTW, the original reason for experimenting with the HDMI converter was to provide a more standardized modern output for the 80 column video. The fact that I'm also getting a rather nice conversion of the Atari standard video to HDMI as well, is just icing on the cake at this point. I understood the goal. Definitely a side benefit. Edited July 4, 2021 by MrFish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 Could you post an image of the 80-column text using luma and/or composite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Larry said: Could you post an image of the 80-column text using luma and/or composite? That's more difficult, since I only have HDMI capture facilities. But I'll give it a good try with my camera which is always a mixed bag. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 100% Manually Routed 4-layer board with mid layer power planes - verified ? Now days doing 4-layer boards especially at this size: 4.2" (107mm) square, is relatively inexpensive, and you get the added benefit of the power planes adding shielding for the signal lines. So for instance to have as little as a 5 board run would cost $8 per board, at 10 pieces it would be $4.50 per board. Of course it makes the most sense to order at least 10 boards and share them with a group of builders, and/or sell the extras. With this being fairly close to the footprint of the 576NUC+ PCB, it would be cool to have a similar size and style for the case to allow for a neat little stack. This would then give the 576NUC+ HDMI audio/video output, as well as 80 column text. Of course this is meant to work with any Atari 8-bit ever made 15 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 11 hours ago, Larry said: Could you post an image of the 80-column text using luma and/or composite? It's usually difficult to pick up on camera, especially on LCD. It's difficult to take a still photograph of flickering pixels and the low intensity text definition experienced via component in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geister Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Are these for sale yet? Either way, how much do you expect it to cost? I'd love to get at least one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, Geister said: Are these for sale yet? Either way, how much do you expect it to cost? I'd love to get at least one. LOL, slow your roll, man. Michael doesn't even have prototype PCBs in hand yet. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 11 hours ago, DrVenkman said: LOL, slow your roll, man. Michael doesn't even have prototype PCBs in hand yet. Yeah I should probably take this back to my blog, which is better for documenting works in process, which is what this presently is. And although the intention is to eventually have this for sale as an assembled and tested product it won't be made by me, so no use in asking me for the price or availability. And as DrVenkman pointed out, I'm nowhere that point in time Edit: Although I did get some good ideas from discussing the project here on AtariAge. Thank you all for your input. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massiverobot Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 11 hours ago, mytek said: Yeah I should probably take this back to my blog, which is better for documenting works in process, which is what this presently is. And although the intention is to eventually have this for sale as an assembled and tested product it won't be made by me, so no use in asking me for the price or availability. And as DrVenkman pointed out, I'm nowhere that point in time Has the Brewing Academy discussed assemble/build/sale like with your NUC? That would be great. And I love the stackable idea with the NUC+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 58 minutes ago, massiverobot said: Has the Brewing Academy discussed assemble/build/sale like with your NUC? That would be great. And I love the stackable idea with the NUC+ I always give TBA the exclusive right to sell whatever I come up with. So if they are interested in this project when it's done, then yes they will be selling it. For the DIY crowd, it'll be released within a few months of that. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebpehtira Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 I would gladly put a firm order in one of these for my 800XL provided we can keep out feature creep and ensure compatibility with legacy applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 28 minutes ago, nebpehtira said: I would gladly put a firm order in one of these for my 800XL provided we can keep out feature creep and ensure compatibility with legacy applications. Many people have mentioned something to this effect, so let me point out that this topic is not about ordering or sales. I started posting here to share an idea, and to chart it's course. Whatever comes out of this process is what I choose to pursue, which I've outlined fairly well up to this point. BTW, the Feature Creep phase has been completed At this point in time, the board layout is pretty near completion, although I did run into a couple of snags recently, one being that Atari chose to invert the data coming out of the character ROM, which I had initially missed during my reverse engineering. So a bit of trace rip-up and reroute was required, but that's now done and behind me. The other related to power for the AV2HDMI converter, which as it turns out really needs to be independently supplied and left ON, due to a start-up delay in the converter. I have decided to address this by using a panel mount Micro-USB extension cable. These can be gotten in very short lengths, akin to a pigtail. They go for for less than $2 off of eBay, and will allow mounting inside whatever case is conjured up for this project. For 576NUC+ people there is a source of always ON +5V power available from an extra pin of the Dsub-15 SIO jack that could get tapped into to supply this power. Of course the AV2HDMI converter is totally optional, and provision is present to run without it, and use straight composite out of the 80 column hardware via one of the RCA jacks. So for that scenario the Micro-USB extension cable would not be required. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 3 hours ago, nebpehtira said: ...ensure compatibility with legacy applications. I would assume this to be the main reason it's being patterned after the original XEP80. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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