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Ars Technica article on Amico

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49 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

The Amicos that have been pre-ordered were done so in a way that was functionally indistinguishable from crowdfunding.  It might have been nice had that been announced as the plan earlier on, but I don't see that is a huge distinction either way.


Misinformation.

 

 

49 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

I think there's more than a little reason to be skeptical of the videos of Amico game footage.  For all the hours (days?) of Amico footage on YouTube, shockingly little of it actually contains game content.  This is a completely fair point for AT to make.  That's not "misinformation".

 

Misinformation.  There are tons of videos of people playing Amico that have been online for over 1 1/2 years. 

 

 

 

49 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

Not showing the system actually working in a video made specifically to show the system actually working is considerable evidence.  At the very best, its an example of poor presentation.  Again, a completely fair point for AT to make, and not "misinformation".


Misinformation.  Many games were shown and were played in the E3 presentation.

 

 

 

49 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

Do we have exact specs on Amico dev kits?  Is this confirmed by the devs themselves?  I'm not claiming a "gotcha", I'm legitimately asking for the record.

 

The specs on the Dev Kits are of course the same as the final units.  Those specs have been on our website for nearly 2 years I believe.

So yes... misinformation.

 

 

 

49 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

I would agree that battery saving features are not indicitive of low capacity.  However, controller battery life is a somewhat hot issue and unless the Amico is taking active steps to counter that trend, I think this is healthy skepticism.

 

It's only a hot issue because people are spreading misinformation about it. 

 

 

49 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

I don't see why this is an unfair comparison.  Both Apple and IE are selling games through an online store.  The percentage take each has is info worthy of comparison.  Up-front payment to devs doesn't change anything unless we have specific examples to discuss.

 

Misinformation.  Completely different.

 

 

49 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

The amount of "live" gameplay available from the Amico library is shockingly small for a system that was supposed to be released 10 months ago.  This is a fair point for AT to make.

 

Misinformation.  Tons of gameplay footage has been shown for over 1 1/2 years. 

 

 

49 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

There was enough reusued footage it's a fair point for AT to make.


Misinformation.  There was no reused gameplay footage that was used. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

This is misinformation.

A video and its stats from your very own channel is "misinformation?". The screenshot of all the top comments from under the video is "cherrypicking?". Jaysis. I've never said "it's the very latest video" so not sure what are you on about. You yourself told us to go to this channel and watch some videos, so I did. Picked the latest trailer as these are usually the most important ones, and presented my thoughts as requested.

 

This is, frankly put, a really embarrassing response. Now, I know you're the enthusiastic and well-meaning driving force behind Amico, but the propensity of trying to control every single bit of conversation online and picking pointless fights with people who aren't actually "haters" and make valid points, is very misguided and might be actually damaging to Amico brand. This has been pointed out many times in recent times, by Amico supporters too, not just trolls & haters.

 

Btw, Amiga Mini trailer released today has already had ~14K views. Make out of it what you wish.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:


Misinformation.

That's not how this works.  You can't just repeat the single word "misinformation" and expect me to buy it.  What I said is how I interperit the console's business model.  That interperitation is valid.  If you think it is not, the onus is on you to explain how.  

 

9 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:


Misinformation.  There are tons of videos of people playing Amico that have been online for over 1 1/2 years. 

 

Not nearly enough for a system that was supposed to be released 10 months ago.  

9 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:


Misinformation.  Many games were shown and were played in the E3 presentation.

 

That wasn't Mr_Me's point.  He was suggesting that there was no evidence that the controller didn't work. I was noting that the editing of the video was a point against that.  The quantity of games played at E3 is irrelevant to what either of us said.

 

9 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

 

The specs on the Dev Kits are of course the same as the final units.  Those specs have been on our website for nearly 2 years I believe.

So yes... misinformation.

 

 

Is this documented anywhere?  Can we have devs confirm this?

 

9 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

It's only a hot issue because people are spreading misinformation about it. 

 

 

You do realize people also complain about battery life on controllers for Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony, systems, do you not?  I don't belive the discussion started with the Amico.  If you make a wireless controller, battery life will be an issue.  That's the way it is.

 

9 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

Misinformation.  Completely different.

Again, how?  Simply repeating a word doesn't compel me to change my mind.

 

9 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

 

Misinformation.  Tons of gameplay footage has been shown for over 1 1/2 years. 

 

 

Not nearly enough for a system that was supposed to be released 10 months ago.

 

9 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

Misinformation.  There was no reused gameplay footage that was used. 

Please clarify: are you insisting that the two videos share no common footage?

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21 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

Misinformation.  Tons of gameplay footage has been shown for over 1 1/2 years. 

Is there anywhere a gameplay video of Cornhole? I think people are mainly doubting the state of the motion controls currently, afaik. 

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13 minutes ago, youxia said:

A video and its stats from your very own channel is "misinformation?". The screenshot of all the top comments from under the video is "cherrypicking?". Jaysis. I've never said "it's the very latest video" so not sure what are you on about. You yourself told us to go to this channel and watch some videos, so I did. Picked the latest trailer as these are usually the most important ones, and presented my thoughts as requested.

 

This is, frankly put, a really embarrassing response. Now, I know you're the enthusiastic and well-meaning driving force behind Amico, but the propensity of trying to control every single bit of conversation online and picking pointless fights with people who aren't actually "haters" and make valid points, is very misguided and might be actually damaging to Amico brand. This has been pointed out many times in recent times, by Amico supporters too, not just trolls & haters.

Cherrypicking: "please look at these advertisements from my company's YouTube channel"

Misinformation: "only pay attention to the things that I, the paid product spokesman, have to say on the topic"

Clarification: "go read my emails to the editor of NintendoLife, who has also been giving free publicity to the Polymega project"

 

I share your skepticism and think that a product should speak for itself. If the company's PR material is not persuasive, perhaps a technical demonstration, in a neutral setting with neither "shills" nor "haters," would be better than a verbal back-and-forth. 

 

I wouldn't buy a car just based on glossy sales brochures, I'd want a test drive, as well as the opinions of people I trust and respect. We'll get there eventually, despite the delays. 

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This thread is gold…I too was banned from the Q&A for, I presume asking questions related to realistic sales goals of Amico. Or possibly hurting some folks feelings. 
 

Not all who wander are lost.

 

Not all who question things are haters.

 

 

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I can see that my presence here is triggering drama for the same 7 - 10 folks as it always has... so I'll leave you all to yourselves.

Enjoy.

 


 

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If a point (or argument) can not be made as to why something is incorrect, without just saying that its incorrect, there really is no valid rebuttal then is there?

 

Incorrect = misinformation

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Can we all agree with this?    Yes? No?   

1F0343B3-F5A9-4724-BD01-013C6B16B299.jpeg

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8 hours ago, Lusorius said:

Is there anywhere a gameplay video of Cornhole? I think people are mainly doubting the state of the motion controls currently, afaik. 

The only video that shows controllers being used with footage on screen is the recent Intellivision demo.

 

The E3 footage that was reused of Hans family only shows phones being used with gameplay footage visible. In zero of those same shots does any one controller have any signs of actually having power. The screens aren't on, and no lit LEDs. The controllers in that footage appear to be one of those, "for illustrative purposes" situations.

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9 hours ago, mr_me said:

The reason i said this is because someone quoted a comment saying the Nintendo Life article is "paid sponsorship".  That is spreading misinformation.

'I think Damien forgot to add: PAID SPONSORSHIP'

 

Oh, come on. That comment is clearly a joke.


Maybe you misunderstand what 'paid sponsorship' means? For the record, it's used to distinguish social media posts - typically on Instagram although variants on the term are used elsewhere - where money has changed hands to promote a product from genuine endorsements. Nobody is seriously going to apply the term to an interview on a news site. They just think it's a bit soft pedal.

Edited by Matt_B
Added original quote.
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2 hours ago, Rev said:

If a point (or argument) can not be made as to why something is incorrect, without just saying that its incorrect, there really is no valid rebuttal then is there?

 

Incorrect = misinformation

I think there are times it’s best to just say you disagree, reference to wrestling pigs theorem 🐷

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2 hours ago, Rev said:

Can we all agree with this?    Yes? No?   

1F0343B3-F5A9-4724-BD01-013C6B16B299.jpeg

I don’t know. I could say things that would get me banned for life from here if I wanted to. 

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10 hours ago, godslabrat said:

"Power" refers to more than just a single chip.  There are many devices with extremely fast CPUs that aren't very capable, because the system is bottlenecked elsewhere.  Likewise, there are many modest CPUs that achieve great performance because of optimized code.  That doesn't make the AT article "misinformed".  Quite the opposite, actually.

 

 

The Amicos that have been pre-ordered were done so in a way that was functionally indistinguishable from crowdfunding.  It might have been nice had that been announced as the plan earlier on, but I don't see that is a huge distinction either way.

 

 

 

I really don't know much about Gamestop, haven't shopped there in years.  I'll trust your judgement on this.

 

 

I think there's more than a little reason to be skeptical of the videos of Amico game footage.  For all the hours (days?) of Amico footage on YouTube, shockingly little of it actually contains game content.  This is a completely fair point for AT to make.  That's not "misinformation".

 

 

 

Not showing the system actually working in a video made specifically to show the system actually working is considerable evidence.  At the very best, its an example of poor presentation.  Again, a completely fair point for AT to make, and not "misinformation".

 

 

 

You and Sam literally just said the exact same thing with different phrasing.  That's not "misinformation".

 

 

Do we have exact specs on Amico dev kits?  Is this confirmed by the devs themselves?  I'm not claiming a "gotcha", I'm legitimately asking for the record.

 

 

I would agree that battery saving features are not indicitive of low capacity.  However, controller battery life is a somewhat hot issue and unless the Amico is taking active steps to counter that trend, I think this is healthy skepticism.

 

 

That becomes a matter of implementation.  What is "an extension of development time" and what is "support"?  (This is rhetorical, I don't expect you to speak for Amico).  For AT to say this could potentially hinder developer support is not unreasonable.

 

 

 

I don't see why this is an unfair comparison.  Both Apple and IE are selling games through an online store.  The percentage take each has is info worthy of comparison.  Up-front payment to devs doesn't change anything unless we have specific examples to discuss.

 

Again, not misinformation.

 

 

The amount of "live" gameplay available from the Amico library is shockingly small for a system that was supposed to be released 10 months ago.  This is a fair point for AT to make.

 

 

It's a matter of perspective.  There was enough reusued footage it's a fair point for AT to make.

 

 

Well, the Amico team is not going to be changing any minds without sending out review units.

 

Thanks for the response.  At least you bothered to answer.

 

 

The Snapdragons are a system on a chip, they incorporate most components of a computer including cpu, gpu, memory controller.  The two chips have similar architectures so clock speeds and GFLOPS are directly comparable and reflected in application testing results.  The one reported to be in the Amico as mentioned in the article was first introduced in 2018 and found in current devices more expensive than the Amico, however the writer chose to talk about a different, older chip, first thing under the title.  And of course people on the internet are talking about the wrong chip due to this article.  It is very misleading and the writer knows it.

 

Amico preorders started in early 2020 and represent a small fraction of money raised, not to mention a separate secured line of credit to fund manufacturing.  The Amico is not funded by preorders.  I don't know how soon Sony or Microsoft started taking preorders for Xbox and Playstation, in hindsight it was too early for Amico.  Even the Republic revenue sharing investing campaign was not part of the original funding plan.  The CFO talked about how the venture capital landscape changed during the pandemic and they had to adapt.

 

The skeptism in the article is not from a lack of videos shown, it is concern from two points.  Dev units being different than regular Amicos is one, the other is some conspiracy with those invited to the public event in Texas.  Dev units specs have been mentioned a few times in the article.  Some basic fact checking would have been easy, but why start writing about facts when you can write about conspiracies.

 

The purpose of the E3 was to introduce the system and games to new people.  It's purpose was not to convince skeptics, the live public gameplay events should have done that.  The thing is there are people that still believe the games are running off a PC, doesn't matter what you show them. 

 

There is no lockdown on patch support like the article says.  People have been repeating this misinformation.

 

The fee a developer/publisher pays Apple to sell their apps on their store and what a publisher pays its developer are two different things.  If I'm a publisher and I hire programmers to develop my game idea, pay them a decent amount of money for their time, I don't necessarily need to share any sales revenue with them.  Intellivision Entertainment is paying them and sharing sales revenue.  They are the publishers, and in most cases, funding the development, contributing to the game development, supporting their developers.  A 50/50 split on revenue in addition to that pay in advance of sales would be generous to the developer.  With this article, the writer might be misinformed, doesn't matter, what was written is misinformation.  If people here don't see the difference, it's no wonder the CEO is reluctant to comment.

 

The writer linked a video from the Texas event and obviously knows about the company youtube channel.  At the time of the article writing there were at lease nine Amico games that have been shown with live gameplay, not the two that the article mentions.  No it is not a fair point, it is misleading.   The original release date was changed because they weren't ready, what is the relevance of that date now.  Currently there are about eighteen Amico games that have been played live at events documented on video.  Neither eighteen or nine are a small amount of games, let alone shockingly small.   

 

Regarding the reworked Gamescon video.  At least eighteen of the twenty-four game clips shown in the new video were not in the original video.  So the article it is clearly wrong.  It really doesn't matter that they reused game clips or not.  What this shows is that the writer is obviously using other people's research and doesn't care or want to fact check.  They can send review units to whoever they like but I wouldn't send one to this writer.

Edited by mr_me
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6 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

The only video that shows controllers being used with footage on screen is the recent Intellivision demo.

@Tommy Tallarico Is this really the only footage, i.e. of the experimental controls? Maybe if you could simply show the finished first version of Cornhole with motion controls (as you statet that it is there), that could dispel some of the doubts. Or maybe @mr_me knows something?

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17 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

I can see that my presence here is triggering drama for the same 7 - 10 folks as it always has... so I'll leave you all to yourselves.

Enjoy.

 


 

Don't flatter yourself.  Your "presence" might be enough to make certain people swoon, but people who ask questions and look at the bigger picture need more convincing.   The more defensive you get, the more I think there's a problem here.

 

Instead of snarky posts, wouldn't it be better to let your product do the talking?

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3 hours ago, Agillig said:

Instead of snarky posts, wouldn't it be better to let your product do the talking?


Yep!  I agree.  And we've been doing just that over the past few months.

Here are a few examples.  Please make sure to check them out and let us know your thoughts.

 

 

 

 

 
 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tommy Tallarico said:


Yep!  I agree.  And we've been doing just that over the past few months.

Here are a few examples.  Please make sure to check them out and let us know your thoughts.

 

My thoughts are that the time for videos is past and the time for getting demo units into the hands of independent reviewers is long overdue.

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6 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

My thoughts are that the time for videos is past and the time for getting demo units into the hands of independent reviewers is long overdue.

I would agree.  The videos have been nice, but up to a point.  Reviewers need to have the hardware in hand so at least they can do a preview, a la what was done with the Playdate recently at Ars Technica.  Personally, I would think that would go a long way to let the hardware and/or software do some talking. 

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6 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

My thoughts are that the time for videos is past and the time for getting demo units into the hands of independent reviewers is long overdue.

Agree, I mean some of those videos are honestly embarrassing.  I can recall being a kid and having to wait at my mom's hairdresser or a dentist's office and they would have weird toys and sometimes electronics that I would enjoy for the half hour or so I had to sit there.  I suspect if someone had a video camera trained on me at the time, I might look like I was having a great time, but there is no way I would have ended up asking for any of those things for my birthday or Christmas.  Kids are not morons and unless this thing has games polished to the same level as what's available on the Switch and other similar platforms and controllers that are super responsive and more fun to use than the competition, it might be something they will play on a demo unit at a store, but it's not going to be something they actually convince their soccer moms to buy.  

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1 minute ago, Hwlngmad said:

I would agree.  The videos have been nice, but up to a point.  Reviewers need to have the hardware in hand so at least they can do a preview, a la what was done with the Playdate recently at Ars Technica.  Personally, I would think that would go a long way to let the hardware and/or software do some talking. 

I think, and it’s my personal feeling, we are far from an Amico being sent over ANYWHERE without an entourage.

 

Maybe this time next year. Again, not trolling…just my hunch.

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16 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

My thoughts are that the time for videos is past and the time for getting demo units into the hands of independent reviewers is long overdue.

why-not-both-why-not.gif.81a933b75ca35fb918329d6f1bb067a8.gif

6 minutes ago, Hwlngmad said:

I would agree.  The videos have been nice, but up to a point.  Reviewers need to have the hardware in hand so at least they can do a preview, a la what was done with the Playdate recently at Ars Technica.  Personally, I would think that would go a long way to let the hardware and/or software do some talking. 

Exactly. The Playdate hands on from Ars got me just more interested in it.

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4 minutes ago, MarioMan88 said:

I think, and it’s my personal feeling, we are far from an Amico being sent over ANYWHERE without an entourage.

 

Maybe this time next year. Again, not trolling…just my hunch.

You could be very much right.  However, until (professional) independent previews/reviews can be done, afraid the speculations and naysaying will continue quite loudly for some time to come.

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8 minutes ago, Hwlngmad said:

You could be very much right.  However, until (professional) independent previews/reviews can be done, afraid the speculations and naysaying will continue quite loudly for some time to come.

It's Schrödinger's Console. 

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