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Ars Technica article on Amico

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2 hours ago, Hwlngmad said:

Exactly!  Having review and/or production ready units in the hands of (professional) reviewers at places like Engadget, Ars Technica, CNET, etc. would (or at least potentially could) really help the Amico out.  Having random Johns and Jills give their opinions ain't going to cut it at this point imo.

The target demographic of the Amico does not read Engadget, Ars Technica or CNET.

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2 minutes ago, Papy said:

Are you sure about that? I don't remember Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo ever doing this.

You remember incorrectly, then.

 

2 minutes ago, Papy said:

Anyway, in the case of Intellivision, sending review units as soon as production starts would be interesting only if there were no pre-orders or if Intellivision's production capacity was superior to the current demand.

Incorrect.  Many potential customers would be interested in seeing review units looked at by established websites and publications, particualrly for a new-concept console by a company with no track record.

 

2 minutes ago, Papy said:

My wild guess is it will probably take two or three months of production to fulfill all pre-orders. This means advertisement (reviews are a form of advertisement) should start only two or three months after production starts, not when the product is ready for production.

 

Your wild guess and what you think "should" happen is noted, but really has no bearing on what's going on.

2 minutes ago, Papy said:

You believe Intellivision is not able to pay minimum wage to an employee?

I believe Intellivision is unable to offer a salary commiserate with a capable person agreeing to patch this sinking ship.

 

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21 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

 

Incorrect.  Many potential customers would be interested in seeing review units looked at by established websites and publications, particualrly for a new-concept console by a company with no track record.

Not to mention many non-tech outlets use more niche technology sites as a source of ideas and background for creating their own general purpose content.  I have a friend who works in local news and he produces a syndicated tech segment that goes to dozens of local television stations weekly and he is constantly on Ars Technica, CNET, Techcruch, etc...looking for content of interest to a typical local news audience.  He always works in news about consoles, VR headsets and other tech that might be of interest to less tech-savvy consumers and even did part of a segment on Playdate recently.   

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24 minutes ago, Papy said:

Anyway, in the case of Intellivision, sending review units as soon as production starts would be interesting only if there were no pre-orders or if Intellivision's production capacity was superior to the current demand.

 

My wild guess is it will probably take two or three months of production to fulfill all pre-orders. This means advertisement (reviews are a form of advertisement) should start only two or three months after production starts, not when the product is ready for production.

This is true, except that nobody really knows how long this will last.  Until they get beyond their manufacturing problems and preorders, creating more interest and demand is not all that helpful.

 

24 minutes ago, Papy said:

From a developer's point of view, games are never really "finalized". It's the publisher who decides when he pulls the plug.

Anyone that's worked in software development knows this.

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22 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

You remember incorrectly, then.

So you make the claim that Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo sent review units of their consoles as soon as they were ready for production? Can you justify your claim with some evidence?

 

22 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

Incorrect.  Many potential customers would be interested in seeing review units looked at by established websites and publications, particualrly for a new-concept console by a company with no track record.

I never said potential customers would not be interested in seeing reviews. What I said is that it would not be interesting for Intellivision (from a business point of view) to push for this kind of advertisement before they fulfilled their pre-orders. Do you disagree with that?

 

22 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

Your wild guess and what you think "should" happen is noted, but really has no bearing on what's going on.

My "wild guess" would explain why it is not in the interest of Intellivision to send review units right now. My "wild guess" is therefore directly related to what's going on.

 

22 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

I believe Intellivision is unable to offer a salary commiserate with a capable person agreeing to patch this sinking ship.

 

Not only your assertion that Intellivision is a "sinking ship" is only wishful thinking from your part, but you are changing the subject. I was talking about you.

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18 minutes ago, Papy said:

So you make the claim that Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo sent review units of their consoles as soon as they were ready for production? Can you justify your claim with some evidence?

 

The claim I am making is that Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo send review units far in advance of the system release.  These units are arranged at least six months prior.  Amico, if their account of the console development is accurate, is in a position to do this and has not.  That is my claim.

 

18 minutes ago, Papy said:

I never said potential customers would not be interested in seeing reviews. What I said is that it would not be interesting for Intellivision (from a business point of view) to push for this kind of advertisement before they fulfilled their pre-orders. Do you disagree with that?

 

I choose not to speculate on what Intellivision thinks is interesting from a business point of view, as their business decisions make no sense to me.  Therefore, I am not in a position to agree or disagree, as the matter does not concern me.

 

18 minutes ago, Papy said:

Not only your assertion that Intellivision is a "sinking ship" is only wishful thinking from your part, but you are changing the subject. I was talking about you.

 

Yes, you were talking about me.  And as I said, Intellivision can't afford me.  I'm something of an expert on the topic of how much money I'd need to take a certain job.

 

Now, unless you're in a position to negotiate an employment contract on behalf of Intellivision Entertainment, LLC, let's not waste any more time discussing that particular point.  

 

 

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3 hours ago, godslabrat said:

Pretty sure 10/10/2020 is in the past.  I'm almost positive.  The fact that nothing is final right now is exactly the problem.  This is not how you release a console.

Don't forget 4/3/21 or 4/15/21. It os definitely past launch.

 

Going back to the, they can get consoles for early review, I'm not convinced they can. The one time the IGN ME had it they couldn't tell what firmware it was on. Just that it was old. That doesn't instill confidence and that happened after the initial launch date.

 

Even to make Christmas it needs to be buttoned up right now. Last time I checked Cornhole is still being worked on and that has to be done by manufacturing. To have a day one patch needed to fix a game goes against everything I thought this console stood for about that.

 

"Hey grandma let's play cornhole! What it doesn't work? I have to connect to the internet to download a fix for my pack in game?" <- Not what they want to do.

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This hasn't been mentioned bit is also quite important potentially.

 

None of those preorders are actual sold units. Intellivision still has to collect the rest of the funds. Some people may just be sitting on it just waiting to see more before they cancel. That is where getting those units out early to places like Ars, IGN, etc. can help.

 

If they can't manage a few extras for press reviews they probably can't manage the preorders period. If it is that dire I would expect at best only the Founder Editions before 2022.

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1 minute ago, MrBeefy said:

This hasn't been mentioned bit is also quite important potentially.

 

None of those preorders are actual sold units. Intellivision still has to collect the rest of the funds. Some people may just be sitting on it just waiting to see more before they cancel. That is where getting those units out early to places like Ars, IGN, etc. can help.

 

If they can't manage a few extras for press reviews they probably can't manage the preorders period. If it is that dire I would expect at best only the Founder Editions before 2022.

Fair point.

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2 hours ago, Papy said:

The target demographic of the Amico does not read Engadget, Ars Technica or CNET.

Well, maybe they do and maybe they don't.  Either way, you want (professional) reviews of units that can be any of the following: pre-production, review, production-ready.  Again, look at what happened with the Playdate.  I can guarantee you that the Ars Technica article helped when they opened up pre-orders.  Also, same with the Steam Deck.  Seen lots of reviews of review/pre-production units in the hands of various reviewers and/or influencers without anyone from Valve watching over their every move.

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55 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

The claim I am making is that Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo send review units far in advance of the system release.

First, you said, "console makers send out review units when the machine is production ready". Do you retract that previous claim?

 

Second, I asked you if you could give us some evidence (no matter if the claim is "production ready" or "far in advance of the system release"). I notice that you still don't give any. Is it because you refuse to give those evidence or is it because your belief is based on thin air?

 

55 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

I choose not to speculate on what Intellivision thinks is interesting from a business point of view, as their business decisions make no sense to me.  Therefore, I am not in a position to agree or disagree, as the matter does not concern me.

I did not ask you to speculate on what Intellivision thinks nor if the matter concerns you. I made an hypothesis, from this hypothesis I came to a conclusion, and I was asking if you agree with my reasoning.

 

Let me try to clear up what I'm saying...

 

It seems to me your goal is to demonstrate that the console is not ready for production and that Tommy Tallarico is lying when he says the problem comes from a lack of affordable parts. Is that correct?

 

In order to support this idea, you claim that if the console was ready for production, then Intellivision would have sent demo units to reviewers. Is that correct?

 

If the answer to both is "yes", then I'm saying the justification you give to support the idea that the console is not ready for production is erroneous. Since this justification is erroneous, it means your claim that the console is not ready for production is, at best, baseless.

 

55 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

Now, unless you're in a position to negotiate an employment contract on behalf of Intellivision Entertainment, LLC, let's not waste any more time discussing that particular point. 

Fair enough, but next time try to be a little less pretentious. ;-)

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23 minutes ago, Hwlngmad said:

Well, maybe they do and maybe they don't.

I'm saying that they don't.

 

23 minutes ago, Hwlngmad said:

 Either way, you want (professional) reviews of units that can be any of the following: pre-production, review, production-ready.

I do agree that reviews are a good thing, I'm just disputing the time frame.

 

23 minutes ago, Hwlngmad said:

Again, look at what happened with the Playdate.  I can guarantee you that the Ars Technica article helped when they opened up pre-orders.  Also, same with the Steam Deck.  Seen lots of reviews of review/pre-production units in the hands of various reviewers and/or influencers without anyone from Valve watching over their every move.

Unlike for the Playdate or the Steam Deck, I'm guessing the main problem for Intellivision is that the expected demand for the Amico is higher than the number of consoles they can produce in a reasonable amount of time. Even if production started in September, I'm guessing (making the hypothesis) it would take two or three months of production to fulfill the current pre-orders. This means any new pre-orders would take at least several months to be delivered, which will most probably lead to unsatisfied customers and lost sales.

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14 minutes ago, Papy said:

I'm saying that they don't.

 

I do agree that reviews are a good thing, I'm just disputing the time frame.

 

Unlike for the Playdate or the Steam Deck, I'm guessing the main problem for Intellivision is that the expected demand for the Amico is higher than the number of consoles they can produce in a reasonable amount of time. Even if production started in September, I'm guessing (making the hypothesis) it would take two or three months of production to fulfill the current pre-orders. This means any new pre-orders would take at least several months to be delivered, which will most probably lead to unsatisfied customers and lost sales.

Again, you could be right in that they don't.  However, there could be some that do as well. 

 

Also, I would say that IE needs to get review units to reviewers when the product is in a near final state.  If that is not right now, that's fine.  However, if reviewers can have actual units to sit down with and experience for a number of days and/or weeks so they can do informed articles, that would be good to have.

 

Finally, regarding the demand for the Amico, even if started producing consoles in September they could (in theory) also get review units out around the same time unless they decide to not do that at all.  That is totally up to IE whether or not to have review units out in advance of any kind of a launch. 

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1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

This hasn't been mentioned bit is also quite important potentially.

 

None of those preorders are actual sold units. Intellivision still has to collect the rest of the funds. Some people may just be sitting on it just waiting to see more before they cancel. That is where getting those units out early to places like Ars, IGN, etc. can help.

 

If they can't manage a few extras for press reviews they probably can't manage the preorders period. If it is that dire I would expect at best only the Founder Editions before 2022.

Since they might be taking a loss on each preorder, they might not mind so much.

 

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

Don't forget 4/3/21 or 4/15/21. It os definitely past launch.

 

Going back to the, they can get consoles for early review, I'm not convinced they can. The one time the IGN ME had it they couldn't tell what firmware it was on. Just that it was old. That doesn't instill confidence and that happened after the initial launch date.

 

Even to make Christmas it needs to be buttoned up right now. Last time I checked Cornhole is still being worked on and that has to be done by manufacturing. To have a day one patch needed to fix a game goes against everything I thought this console stood for about that.

 

"Hey grandma let's play cornhole! What it doesn't work? I have to connect to the internet to download a fix for my pack in game?" <- Not what they want to do.

What do you mean they couldn't tell what firmware.  Controller firmware gets updated through the system and the internet.  I heard it was a recent bug at the time that was promptly fixed.

 

The version of cornhole that people have been playing earlier this year didn't need a patch to play and neither does the new version.  The Amico and the packin games are designed to run out of the box without internet.  This has been gone over many times here.

Edited by mr_me
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1 hour ago, Papy said:

I'm saying that they don't.

 

I do agree that reviews are a good thing, I'm just disputing the time frame.

 

Unlike for the Playdate or the Steam Deck, I'm guessing the main problem for Intellivision is that the expected demand for the Amico is higher than the number of consoles they can produce in a reasonable amount of time. Even if production started in September, I'm guessing (making the hypothesis) it would take two or three months of production to fulfill the current pre-orders. This means any new pre-orders would take at least several months to be delivered, which will most probably lead to unsatisfied customers and lost sales.

I think the demand for this system is going to be similar to the Atari VCS.   Just about everyone who wants one is going to pre-order one.  Post launch sales are going to crater.

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3 hours ago, Hwlngmad said:

I would say that IE needs to get review units to reviewers when the product is in a near final state.  If that is not right now, that's fine.

Considering many people have played with the console in a public setting a few months ago, I believe the idea that the console (from a hardware point of view) is still in its R&D phase is without merit.

 

Of course, we can imagine several scenarios that would require Intellivision's engineers to go back to the drawing board. For example, we can imagine that the manufacturing process is not able to mass produce the prototype. However, based on what I know, there is no reason to believe that.

 

3 hours ago, Hwlngmad said:

Finally, regarding the demand for the Amico, even if started producing consoles in September they could (in theory) also get review units out around the same time

I believe this would be a marketing mistake.

 

If the Amico was designed as a niche and somewhat underground product for a small group of dedicated customers, that is people who are ready pre-order to secure their chance of having the product, then I agree it would be a good idea to give the product to reviewers as soon as possible.

 

However, the goal of the Amico is to be a mainstream product. The target demographic is in big part soccer moms and older people who will not pre-order. They could accept a small delay for delivery, let's say up to two weeks to flatten the curve (sorry, I couldn't resist), but they will not accept to buy a product and receive it only three months later.

 

Considering this, I believe reviews for the Amico should start to appear when all pre-ordered consoles have already been manufactured. This means sending demo units to reviewers one or two weeks before that.

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2 hours ago, Agillig said:

I think the demand for this system is going to be similar to the Atari VCS.   Just about everyone who wants one is going to pre-order one.  Post launch sales are going to crater.

This would be really weird to me since up to now those who pre-ordered the console are not the main target demographics, but a fringe demographics.

 

Anyway, do you have any reason to believe that soccer moms and old people won't buy the console?

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2 hours ago, Papy said:

 

 

Anyway, do you have any reason to believe that soccer moms and old people won't buy the console?

Yes, because those groups don’t buy consoles. We went through the same thing (and we’re shown to be right) with the VCS. The last time those groups bought a console in any sort of capacity was the Wii, and that was almost entirely due to the hype created by Wii Sports. Do you see any game in this lineup that will achieve that level of mainstream success? Closest was Cornhole and I still don’t get why they moved it away from a Wii Sports style experience. This isn’t saying the Amico won’t sell, but I would be surprised if it actually moves the needle in that 3 billion casual market without a Wii Sports style hit.

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The possible issue is that people who don't play games often know somebody in the family who does and I would expect that many of these people would consult with them whether to buy Amico.

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10 hours ago, Papy said:

Anyway, do you have any reason to believe that soccer moms and old people won't buy the console?

This is pretty simple. Has it been marketed to them? Do they know or care about it?

 

The people who have ordered are not the fringe. They are the market. Until they actually do something all of that soccer mom talk, is just talk.

 

In order to achieve mainstream success they have to put it in the mainstream. They really seem to be hesitant or afraid to do that.

 

You said that having a console at a public event shows that its past its R&D phase. I think it is too. However, not  being shown as having passed certifications could also suggest they may still need to fix things.

 

Just checked no certifications listed. https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm?calledFromFrame=N

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This has been discussed lots on this forum.  There's no point in putting it in the mainstream until they have Amicos for them to buy.  It might be a while before that happens.  An example of this was sponsoring the Mom 2.0 summit which turned out to be premature.

https://www.romper.com/p/amico-a-new-video-gaming-console-wants-to-host-your-familys-next-game-night-34994601

 

-------------

They've said they have passed fcc RF emissions testing among others.  Of course some people don't believe anything they say.

 

Edited by mr_me

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19 minutes ago, mr_me said:

This has been discussed lots on this forum.  There's no point in putting it in the mainstream until they have Amicos for them to buy.  It might be a while before that happens.  An example of this was sponsoring the Mom 2.0 summit which turned out to be premature.

https://www.romper.com/p/amico-a-new-video-gaming-console-wants-to-host-your-familys-next-game-night-34994601

 

-------------

They've said they have passed fcc RF emissions testing among others.  Of course some people don't believe anything they say.

 

Can you blame people for NOT believing anything INTV says?

 

3 missed launch dates 

change in price point

exclusives

physical products 

non crowdfunding 

 

Again, I may get banned for trolling, when it actuality I’m not. These are missteps INTV did…not me.

 

All I did was put $200 down for some Founders Editions.

 

Now if you can’t see why some folks don’t believe anything they say, I feel sorry you lack empathy for others.

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I think it's fine not to believe anything people say and only look at the facts.  As an aside they are well within their rights to change anything about their product before it hits the market.

 

Edit:

To be clear of the facts, they did not change the price of preorders, exclusives was clarified very early after introduction long before preorders, physical games using digital distribution was clarified when asked as the console never had a physical media slot, missed launched dates and crowdfunding revenue investing was a reaction to global pandemic complications, the Amico is still not funded by traditional rewards based crowdfunding.

Edited by mr_me

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9 minutes ago, mr_me said:

I think it's fine not to believe anything people say and only look at the facts.  As an aside they are well within their rights to change anything about their product before it hits the market.

And I am well within my right to cancel my preorders which I did.

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12 hours ago, Papy said:

However, the goal of the Amico is to be a mainstream product. The target demographic is in big part soccer moms and older people who will not pre-order. They could accept a small delay for delivery, let's say up to two weeks to flatten the curve (sorry, I couldn't resist), but they will not accept to buy a product and receive it only three months later.

If IE wants the Amico to be the next Wii, they gotta get as many eye balls on this and having people (whether professional or amateur) do reviews on the thing to get the word out.  Plain and simple.  Otherwise, the Amico will probably be the way of the Atari VCS and officially launch with a thud.

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