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Ars Technica article on Amico

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1 hour ago, mr_me said:

They've said they have passed fcc RF emissions testing among others.  Of course some people don't believe anything they say.

Have they passed all FCC tests? Last time I saw only most of them.

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12 minutes ago, Hwlngmad said:

If IE wants the Amico to be the next Wii, they gotta get as many eye balls on this and having people (whether professional or amateur) do reviews on the thing to get the word out.  Plain and simple.  Otherwise, the Amico will probably be the way of the Atari VCS and officially launch with a thud.

This has been discussed repeatedly on this forum.  There's no point getting the word out when the can't get Amicos manufactured in volume.  It might be a while before that happens.

 

3 minutes ago, Lusorius said:

Have they passed all FCC tests? Last time I saw only most of them.

Don't know but I don't think standards certifications is what is what would keep them from shipping Amicos in 2021.  They've got bigger problems than that.

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1 minute ago, mr_me said:

what is what would keep them from shipping Amicos in 2021. 

Sure. Thanks. It could be just a symptome: if one tries to swap some parts, one cannot finish the certification. But that is just a speculation.

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2 minutes ago, mr_me said:

This has been discussed repeatedly on this forum.  There's no point getting the word out when the can't get Amicos manufactured in volume.  It might be a while before that happens.

Totally understandable and I get that.  However, as I (and others) have said repeatedly, they need for reviewers to get their hands on the console if/when that is possible in order to help them have a shot at this thing going mainstream or it winding up being more like the Atari VCS.  Just my opinion, but I think others share in it.

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39 minutes ago, Lusorius said:

Sure. Thanks. It could be just a symptome: if one tries to swap some parts, one cannot finish the certification. But that is just a speculation.

They've already talked about doing just that.

 

36 minutes ago, Hwlngmad said:

Totally understandable and I get that.  However, as I (and others) have said repeatedly, they need for reviewers to get their hands on the console if/when that is possible in order to help them have a shot at this thing going mainstream or it winding up being more like the Atari VCS.  Just my opinion, but I think others share in it.

So it's just the timing that's the issue. 

 

Not sure what anything that Atari SA has done that would suggest it was going for a mainstream audience.  It was a typical rewards based crowdfunded project.

 

1 hour ago, MarioMan88 said:

And I am well within my right to cancel my preorders which I did.

Yes, we know.  And you've made someone on the waiting list very happy.

Edited by mr_me

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10 minutes ago, mr_me said:

So it's just the timing that's the issue. 

 

Not sure what anything that Atari SA has done that would suggest it was going for a mainstream audience.  It was a typical rewards based crowdfunded project.

Correct.  Timing is an issue, that's for sure.

 

Also, true, I don't think Atari SA was (necessarily) going for a mainstream audience.  However, I am saying that the Amico could have the same impact as the VCS if IE isn't careful and/or good enough.

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17 minutes ago, Hwlngmad said:

Correct.  Timing is an issue, that's for sure.

So do you feel like others that it's necessary for them to hit the mainstream now, even if they know they won't have Amicos to sell them in the next six months.

Edited by mr_me

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1 hour ago, mr_me said:

So do you feel like others that it's necessary for them to hit the mainstream now, even if they know they won't have Amicos to sell them in the next six months.

If and when IE can get review units to reviewers, they should.  When exactly that is, I have no clue nor do I pretend to know.  However, the sooner they can do it the better imo.  Other companies aren't just going to sit on their butts and wait for IE to do a move, I can assure you of that.

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Amico is only competing with the goals they set for themselves. I doubt there are many people waiting on a Switch, Evercade, PlayDate, Xbox, Analogue Pocket, Steam Deck, Xbox Series S/X, or PS5 just so all the contenders are ready to go. 

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On 8/12/2021 at 11:52 PM, jerseystyle said:

[About why soccer moms and older people would not buy amicos] Yes, because those groups don’t buy consoles.

Is it surprising considering that no console is marketed to them?

 

I'm someone who is not interested at all with consoles. I did buy an X-Box 360 in the past, but it was only for Dance Central. Nothing else. Later I did buy Virtua Fighter 5 for the console, but since I viewed gamepads as inferior controllers for that game, I quit playing it almost immediately.

 

And yet, not only I'm interested in the Amico, but I even pre-ordered one four days ago, hoping that I could be lucky enough to receive one before Christmas. So although I do understand why you can't understand me, you should still realize that we exist.

 

On 8/12/2021 at 11:52 PM, jerseystyle said:

We went through the same thing (and we’re shown to be right) with the VCS.

The VCS project was plagued with a serious lack of finance. They could not attract investors. Their business plan was also a complete mess. Atari was not a company with a vision, it was a company desperate to have a product to sell. Nothing good comes out of desperation.

 

On 8/12/2021 at 11:52 PM, jerseystyle said:

Do you see any game in this lineup that will achieve [Wii Sports] level of mainstream success?

It's very difficult to say since I have very few info on the games, but I'm guessing the one that will be the most successful at launch is Brain Duel. I believe having Kawashima associated with this project is a mistake, but if Intellivision makes this game correctly, then it could become the next Wii Sports.

 

Having said this, I agree that for now the list of games is rather "meh". There are far too many "retro-reimagined" games. More importantly, not having a modern match-3 game or not having a game like The Sims is a major flaw. If Intellivision does not produce more games for women very rapidly, then there will never be an Amico 2.

 

23 hours ago, Lusorius said:

The possible issue is that people who don't play games often know somebody in the family who does and I would expect that many of these people would consult with them whether to buy Amico.

People who don't play games (casual gamers) generally have very little respect for people who do (hardcore gamers). They won't consult with them.

 

15 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

[about why soccer moms and older people would not buy an Amico] This is pretty simple. Has it been marketed to them? Do they know or care about it?

It is obvious that if Intellivision doesn't do any marketing when the console is available, then only fringe people like us will buy it. Do you really believe Intellivision has no intention of doing any marketing?

 

15 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

In order to achieve mainstream success they have to put it in the mainstream. They really seem to be hesitant or afraid to do that.

Considering it will be several months before Intellivision has a product to sell, do you really find their "hesitancy" surprising?

 

15 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

However, not  being shown as having passed certifications could also suggest they may still need to fix things.

FCC certification is only about RF emissions. Most of the time a problem with the FCC means tweaking power levels. Worst case scenario is having to add shielding. It is not something dramatic (even if adding shielding means each console cost a few more dollars to manufacture).

 

Anyway, Tommy Tallarico said he got the a FCC certification last month. Considering I don't view FCC certification more as an administration problem than an engineering problem, I don't see why I should not believe him.

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23 minutes ago, Papy said:

People who don't play games (casual gamers) generally have very little respect for people who do (hardcore gamers). They won't consult with them.

That is not my experience at all. First the borders between casual and hardcore gamers are quite murky (with many in-between), second many people have good relationship and ask their family members about similar stuff. 

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26 minutes ago, Papy said:

Tommy Tallarico said he got the a FCC certification last month.

Source? I have only seen saying him that they passed most of the tests. 

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4 hours ago, Lusorius said:

That is not my experience at all. First the borders between casual and hardcore gamers are quite murky (with many in-between), second many people have good relationship and ask their family members about similar stuff. 

I think the way people classify casual and hardcore is kind of stupid. Just because you own a certain co sole doesn't make you hardcore. Just because you play on your phone doesn't make you a casual gamer.

 

There are hardcore games on phones, and there are casual games on consoles. I know the casual games rule on our Switch. I played and beat FFX and it didn't even crack the top 3 in time spent playing. 

 

This is my experience too. Since I'm often the nerdiest, my family will often come and ask me questions about video games or similar things. When just my immediate family gets together that is literally 20 people. We will talk and discuss all sorts of similar things because we all know we have similar interests but some of us know more about certain things.

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5 hours ago, Papy said:

It's very difficult to say since I have very few info on the games, but I'm guessing the one that will be the most successful at launch is Brain Duel. I believe having Kawashima associated with this project is a mistake, but if Intellivision makes this game correctly, then it could become the next Wii Sports.

 

Having said this, I agree that for now the list of games is rather "meh". There are far too many "retro-reimagined" games. More importantly, not having a modern match-3 game or not having a game like The Sims is a major flaw. If Intellivision does not produce more games for women very rapidly, then there will never be an Amico 2.

The game they talk very highly of and are somewhat secretive about because of its uniqueness is Back Talk Party, rumoured to be the sixth packin.  I really hope they don't have a match three game and I don't think sandbox games like the Sims fit what they want to achieve.  Not sure what games for women means, cooperative games rather than competitive games maybe?  IE has the research data.  They might like any game that their children enjoy playing with them.

 

5 hours ago, Papy said:

FCC certification is only about RF emissions. Most of the time a problem with the FCC means tweaking power levels. Worst case scenario is having to add shielding. It is not something dramatic (even if adding shielding means each console cost a few more dollars to manufacture).

 

Anyway, Tommy Tallarico said he got the a FCC certification last month. Considering I don't view FCC certification more as an administration problem than an engineering problem, I don't see why I should not believe him.

 

5 hours ago, Lusorius said:

Source? I have only seen saying him that they passed most of the tests. 

This was discussed in their office tour video from last month by one of their engineers.  He said FCC radiated emissions compliance is the most difficult of all compliance testing and that they are done with it.

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21 minutes ago, mr_me said:

This was discussed in their office tour video from last month by one of their engineers.  He said FCC radiated emissions compliance is the most difficult of all compliance testing and that they are done with it.

I know but my understanding was that there are still FCC tests that they have to pass. Or did they say that they passed everything?

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5 hours ago, mr_me said:

What other FCC regulation would apply to a video game system?

 

Led lighting is under FCC. 


Also USB, chargers, RFID.  Which the Amico has both. The console itself is a charger.  I wager every aspect of the console has to be FCC approved. 
 

Probably UL approved as well, and other testing I dont know about. 


 

https://www.compliancegate.com/fcc-part-15-product-list/

 

 

https://www.sunfiretesting.com/What-is-FCC-Certification/

Edited by Rev
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The whole system with controllers come under the same FCC part 15 radiated emissions regulation testing, which they say is done. UL, CE, CSA, etc, safety certifications are different bodies, they say FCC is most difficult to pass.

Edited by mr_me

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29 minutes ago, mr_me said:

The whole system with controllers come under the same FCC part 15 radiated emissions regulation testing, which they say is done. 

"They say" it, but the FCC disagrees.

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4 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

They say" it, but the FCC disagrees.

I don't know what the situation is. Maybe everything is done. But as always in the case of Amico, it would be so easy to end up this speculation. Tallarico could simply confirm that "all FCC compliance" is completed and share the official proof. 😕 Like in the case of Cornhole he could have shown the original perfectly working version and end up all speculation.

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The FCC is just haters and liars. You can disregard anything they say (or don't say) because it's not in alignment so it must be false.

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57 minutes ago, Lusorius said:

I don't know what the situation is. Maybe everything is done. But as always in the case of Amico, it would be so easy to end up this speculation. Tallarico could simply confirm that "all FCC compliance" is completed and share the official proof. 😕 Like in the case of Cornhole he could have shown the original perfectly working version and end up all speculation.

You can search for completed FCC certs .

 

The Amico is not there.

Edited by godslabrat
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They only said they passed testing, they didn't say they received certification or filed.  So their engineers' work is done.  Keep checking the FCC database and keep us posted.  But if there's any chance the hardware changes, they might as well wait to do those last two steps.

Edited by mr_me

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17 hours ago, Lusorius said:

the borders between casual and hardcore gamers are quite murky

Oh, I agree with that. In fact, I believe classifying people who play games on a single axis (from casual to hardcore) is completely wrong. However, it doesn't change that people have completely different and many times incompatible needs and desires when it comes to video games.

 

17 hours ago, Lusorius said:

second many people have good relationship and ask their family members about similar stuff. 

It's not about having good relationships or not, it's that people play video games for completely different reasons. Video game is not a category of "similar stuff". I mean would you seriously say that a game like "The Secret Society - Hidden Objects Mystery" and a game like Apex Legends are similar stuff?

 

Let me put it this way : Would you respect the opinion of an old woman, who plays Facebook games every day, about which game you should play next? If no, then what makes you believe she would respect your opinion about which game she should play next?

 

17 hours ago, Lusorius said:

Source? I have only seen saying him that they passed most of the tests. 

The most difficult FCC compliance is, according to the FCC web site, the FCC certification.

 

11 hours ago, mr_me said:

The game they talk very highly of and are somewhat secretive about because of its uniqueness is Back Talk Party, rumoured to be the sixth packin.

The problem with uniqueness is there is no way to know if it will be a success or a flop. And no, focus groups are not reliable enough to predict that.

 

11 hours ago, mr_me said:

I really hope they don't have a match three game

I can understand that you don't like match-3 games, but can you explain to me why you don't want other people, particularly women, to have a game they like on the Amico?

 

11 hours ago, mr_me said:

and I don't think sandbox games like the Sims fit what they want to achieve.

Why not? Would you prefer me to say Little Computer People instead of the Sims?

 

11 hours ago, mr_me said:

 Not sure what games for women means, cooperative games rather than competitive games maybe?

Characteristic of games for (the majority of) women

  • Non-competitive.
  • In the case of cooperative games, it's better to avoid role-based cooperation (where players must do their specific parts all by themselves successfully in order for the whole team to succeed).
  • Games where reactivity and quickness are not important (I suspect this eliminate most retro-reimagined games).
  • Simple mechanisms (and no, I'm not saying women are stupid, I'm saying they are not interested in wasting time learning "how things work").
  • Heavy social or pseudo social elements.

 

11 hours ago, mr_me said:

 IE has the research data.

Every business plan that is done semi-professionally includes research data. Yet, many products flop. The sad reality is research data is highly unreliable.

 

11 hours ago, mr_me said:

 They might like any game that their children enjoy playing with them.

A long time ago I posted a message saying that educational games should be designed so adults can play them too (I took the example of "Math Fun" and said it should go as high as teaching advanced techniques that are used for mental calculation competitions). Maybe I'm wrong, in fact I hope I'm wrong, but considering I read the age group for educational games is 4 to 7, it seems to me Intellivision chose the classic model for educational games, that is a game parents buy for their children in order to leave the child alone with the console and do something else during that time.

 

5 hours ago, Rev said:

Led lighting is under FCC. 


Also USB, chargers, RFID.  Which the Amico has both. The console itself is a charger.  I wager every aspect of the console has to be FCC approved.

Anything that emits RF is under FCC. Having said this, the console is made from parts that have already passed compliance tests. There is no need to retest these components individually.

 

3 hours ago, godslabrat said:

You can search for completed FCC certs .

 

The Amico is not there.

First, you assume their public database is updated rapidly. Considering my experience with the government, I can assure you this is not always the case.

 

Second, you assume this public database also gives information about products that are not released yet. Since this would be a major source for leaks, I tend to believe this is not the case.

 

It seems to me this FCC thing is nothing but grasping at straws.

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10 hours ago, Papy said:

Let me put it this way : Would you respect the opinion of an old woman, who plays Facebook games every day, about which game you should play next?

Actually, my experience is very different.I have had colleagues asking what games I would recommend for their children because they knew that I am more knowledgeable in this field than them. Why is my experience so different than yours? 😮

And if Amico is good, I might be the person that could recommend it to them.

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