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Ars Technica article on Amico

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11 hours ago, Papy said:

If no, then what makes you believe she would respect your opinion about which game she should play next?

I agree with you but, even though movies are different (you don't need a specific system), family and friends tend to often ask me for advice because I'm very knowledgeable in cinema. And I always tell them it's not relevant to ask me because I have very specific tastes. It also happens for video games too, but not as much.

 

11 hours ago, Papy said:

focus groups are not reliable enough to predict that.

Thank you for reminding it. Tommy Tallarico talks a lot about his "DATA" but focus groups are very difficult to interpret, and it's easy to get the result you're looking for which may not be the right one. The best example in video games to me is the design of the original Game Boy. Of course Nintendo initially envisioned a color screen, and what happened when they asked users if they would prefer a color screen or a monochrome one? Obviously 100% of them preferred the color screen, and yet Okada and Yokoi were right to opt for the monochrome one at the time. Even if they had told the group the battery would last longer with the latter, in the context of a focus group, it's difficult for anyone to perceive what will be better in the long term.

Edited by roots.genoa
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3 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Tommy Tallarico talks a lot about his "DATA" but focus groups are very difficult to interpret, and it's easy to get the result you're looking for which may not be the right one. The best example in video games to me is the design of the original Game Boy. Of course Nintendo initially envisioned a color screen, and what happened when they asked users if they would prefer a color screen or a monochrome one? Obviously 100% of them preferred the color screen, and yet Okada and Yokoi were right to opt for the monochrome one at the time. Even if they had told the group the battery would last longer with the latter, in the context of a focus group, it's difficult for anyone to perceive what will be better in the long term.

This is huge.  Every failed console ever had a long string of suits saying the "market was right for it" and it was "innovative" and all that.

 

They either make something the public wants, or they don't.  The public ultimately decides the success of a console.  And, to go back to the Ars article, the public already has a lot of options for gaming-- including the hyper-casual public the Amico team claims to serve.

 

This is why review units and unsupervised demos are now key... we need people to just try it out.  Then they look at the $250 in their pocket and decide if the Amico is the better pick... compared to the Switch, the IPad, the X1S.  Time to stop telling people what they want and just letting this play out.

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10 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

This is huge.  Every failed console ever had a long string of suits saying the "market was right for it" and it was "innovative" and all that.

 

They either make something the public wants, or they don't.  The public ultimately decides the success of a console.  And, to go back to the Ars article, the public already has a lot of options for gaming-- including the hyper-casual public the Amico team claims to serve.

 

This is why review units and unsupervised demos are now key... we need people to just try it out.  Then they look at the $250 in their pocket and decide if the Amico is the better pick... compared to the Switch, the IPad, the X1S.  Time to stop telling people what they want and just letting this play out.

Weren't you going to get a demo unit?

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4 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Weren't you going to get a demo unit?

Still waiting on that.  Odd, you know, since the Amico was ""done"" months ago.

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15 hours ago, Papy said:

Second, you assume this public database also gives information about products that are not released yet. Since this would be a major source for leaks, I tend to believe this is not the case.

Screenshot_20210815-110016_Drive.thumb.jpg.af383859ef52f66c4b6cdee096e4efb0.jpgScreenshot_20210815-110309_Chrome.thumb.jpg.525a861346afb6d5e1b2a3e75694b446.jpg

:D 💜

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18 minutes ago, MarioMan88 said:

Legal incoming 

 

😉

Time to PANIC!!!!

:P

 

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4 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

I agree with you but, even though movies are different (you don't need a specific system), family and friends tend to often ask me for advice because I'm very knowledgeable in cinema. And I always tell them it's not relevant to ask me because I have very specific tastes. It also happens for video games too, but not as much.

 

Thank you for reminding it. Tommy Tallarico talks a lot about his "DATA" but focus groups are very difficult to interpret, and it's easy to get the result you're looking for which may not be the right one. The best example in video games to me is the design of the original Game Boy. Of course Nintendo initially envisioned a color screen, and what happened when they asked users if they would prefer a color screen or a monochrome one? Obviously 100% of them preferred the color screen, and yet Okada and Yokoi were right to opt for the monochrome one at the time. Even if they had told the group the battery would last longer with the latter, in the context of a focus group, it's difficult for anyone to perceive what will be better in the long term.

Who says their data is strictly focus groups.  There are other types of market research.  In Nintendo's case did they ask the question as a trade off of battery run time?  How long you can play on one charge is not hard to perceive at all.  Any survey is only as good as the question.  Ask a bad question and you get bad results.  Surveys, focus groups, user observations are all different things as well.

 

48 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

...

 

They either make something the public wants, or they don't.  The public ultimately decides the success of a console.  And, to go back to the Ars article, the public already has a lot of options for gaming-- including the hyper-casual public the Amico team claims to serve.

 

This is why review units and unsupervised demos are now key... we need people to just try it out.  Then they look at the $250 in their pocket and decide if the Amico is the better pick... compared to the Switch, the IPad, the X1S.  Time to stop telling people what they want and just letting this play out.

First they have to get them manufactured.

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6 hours ago, Lusorius said:

Actually, my experience is very different.I have had colleagues asking what games I would recommend for their children because they knew that I am more knowledgeable in this field than them. Why is my experience so different than yours?

Maybe because I don't consider small talk as genuinely seeking advice.

 

6 hours ago, Lusorius said:

And if Amico is good, I might be the person that could recommend it to them.

What objective criteria will you use to determine if the Amico is good or not?

 

5 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Tommy Tallarico talks a lot about his "DATA" but focus groups are very difficult to interpret

I'm pretty sure Tommy Tallarico knows this.

 

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

Screenshot_20210815-110016_Drive.thumb.jpg.af383859ef52f66c4b6cdee096e4efb0.jpgScreenshot_20210815-110309_Chrome.thumb.jpg.525a861346afb6d5e1b2a3e75694b446.jpg

:D 💜

Now can you explain to me why no one could find this kind of information for the PS5 or the Xbox One series X before they were released? I mean I'm sure they got their FFC certification long before their release date, right? So could it be that the FCC didn't published their certifications on their public database before the product was released?

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19 minutes ago, Papy said:

Maybe because I don't consider small talk as genuinely seeking advice.

That wasn't small talk. They actually followed my advice. You seem to have a lot prejudice regarding people you don't know :(.

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20 minutes ago, Papy said:

What objective criteria will you use to determine if the Amico is good or not?

 

Is that a philosophical question? And what objective criteria? Like metacritics score? As many others, I will wait for independent reviews of reviewers that I trust. If I can easily try Amico, I will. Then I will make my mind.

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1 hour ago, Papy said:

Now can you explain to me why no one could find this kind of information for the PS5 or the Xbox One series X before they were released? I mean I'm sure they got their FFC certification long before their release date, right? So could it be that the FCC didn't published their certifications on their public database before the product was released?

Oh that's easy. It's out there. The big three however, do compete with each other. It is in their best interest to not broadcast to their competition their product so they use shell companies.

 

There is no need for Panic nor Intellivision Entertainment to do such things. Neither is supposedly competing nor pushing the boundaries of technology. If either of Panic or IE were actually trying to make revolutionary tech then it would be different. The IE console is approximate in power to a 2016 budget smart phone.

 

So there shouldn't be a need for them to hide. It isn't like Panic is competing with the Switch. :P 

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3 hours ago, mr_me said:

How long you can play on one charge is not hard to perceive at all.

What I meant is, esp. at the time, I'm not sure people had an idea of how long a gaming session lasts. Video games was not as mainstream as it is now, and kids are not the best to estimate time. Frankly, if you tell me the battery of a game sytem will last 4 hours, I'll probably tell you that's enough, because I usually play less than an hour. BUT maybe I won't realize that it's not always possible to charge/change the battery in certain situations, and I'm the kind of guy that recharges his phone as soon as the battery is under 50% - so a 4-hour battery life is like a 2-hour battery to me. etc. etc. So my point is when you're invited to test fancy technology, you don't always project yourself in a situation where you will actually own this product for a long time.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

What I meant is, esp. at the time, I'm not sure people had an idea of how long a gaming session lasts. Video games was not as mainstream as it is now, and kids are not the best to estimate time. Frankly, if you tell me the battery of a game sytem will last 4 hours, I'll probably tell you that's enough, because I usually play less than an hour. BUT maybe I won't realize that it's not always possible to charge/change the battery in certain situations, and I'm the kind of guy that recharges his phone as soon as the battery is under 50% - so a 4-hour battery life is like a 2-hour battery to me. etc. etc. So my point is when you're invited to test fancy technology, you don't always project yourself in a situation where you will actually own this product for a long time.

 

 

Can confirm, and this behavior plays out with so many other devices.  
 

For example, when I sold digital cameras, people would resist my suggestion to buy a memory card for them.  The cameras came with internal memory or a uselessly small card (16MB or less).
 

"I'll just use what it comes with." They'd say.  And I'd tell them the camera, as it was in the box, could take ten pictures at most.  
 

"Yeah, that'll be fine."

 

Were they being cheap?  Yeah, a bit. But when digital cameras were new and film was the world people were used to, you didn't have the concept that you could just take photos of everything, at no cost, and just keep the ones you wanted later.  Giving someone the choice between a lot of memory or a little, they'd say the small amount was fine, as they couldn't imagine a need for more than 10 photos.

 

People are generally not good at predicting how they'll use something.  That's why demos and personal experience are so valuable.

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Four hours is plenty for a handheld games system these days; three even would be considered pretty good. The main driver for them being longer than that in the past was long haul flights where you might have to go eight or more hours between charges. Nowadays, with power to every seat though, that's not so much of an issue, so devices can draw more power for a better gaming experience and still be considered practical.

 

The trade off in battery life for one that's a controller that's an intelligent device with its own display is a much tougher sell though, as we're used to ones that'll last a whole day on a single charge and it's an inconvenience to have to get up from the sofa to either plug it in or take a break while it recharges. In that scenario four hours might seem a bit short. At least, that's about how long the Wii U controller lasted and it copped a lot of flak for it.

 

Also of interest is how the battery life degrades with age, because if it's four hours when new but falls off a cliff after eighteen months and is tricky for the end user to replace you might as well be buying a brick, or an iPhone 6S. 😃

 

 

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Amico controllers are held together with screws.  So it's repairability score is off to a good start.

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8 hours ago, Lusorius said:

That wasn't small talk. They actually followed my advice. You seem to have a lot prejudice regarding people you don't know :(.

That's because I wasn't born yesterday. 😉

 

I previously asked you if you would respect the advice of an old lady who plays Facebook games every day about what game you should play next. Could you answer that question?

 

8 hours ago, Lusorius said:

Is that a philosophical question? And what objective criteria? Like metacritics score? As many others, I will wait for independent reviews of reviewers that I trust. If I can easily try Amico, I will. Then I will make my mind.

That was not a "philosophical" question, that was a rhetorical question. You imagine you are in a position to give advice to another person about the Amico. I'm trying to make you realize that this is not the case.

 

As I already said, different people play games for completely different reasons. Beyond having different abilities, we all have very different needs. Some people play video games only to pass the time when they have nothing else to do. Some play video games as a form of escapism. For some, it's to strengthen social bonds with their family or close friends, or to create new social bonds. For others, it could be to fulfill a desire for self-valorization, either by demonstrating to themselves their problem-solving abilities or by winning competitions.

 

These are just a few examples. So do you understand why the idea of saying to other people if the Amico is good or not is kind of ridiculous?

 

7 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

Oh that's easy. It's out there. The big three however, do compete with each other. It is in their best interest to not broadcast to their competition their product so they use shell companies.

I very highly doubt the US government would allow using shell companies and then allow the parent company to commercialize the product under its name. Do you have any evidence to support your hypothesis? Because I believe it makes far more sense to imagine that the US government allows a company to demand confidentiality until the product is released. I mean... Occam's razor.

 

7 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

There is no need for Panic nor Intellivision Entertainment to do such things.

Imagine you are the CEO of a small start-up who believes his ideas are the next big thing. You have (relatively) very little financial power, but you believe that your ideas are so original that when you market your product, everyone will realize how great it is. You believe that the product based on your ideas will immediately create a buzz and that the name of your company will be associated with these ideas forever after. However, you also know that anyone with a lot of money could not only copy your ideas, but commercialize a product based on these ideas much faster than you. You know that anyone with money could pull the rug from under your feet if they knew about your super secret ideas.

 

Considering this scenario, would you want details of your idea to be public?

 

7 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

If either of Panic or IE were actually trying to make revolutionary tech then it would be different. The IE console is approximate in power to a 2016 budget smart phone.

 

So there shouldn't be a need for them to hide. It isn't like Panic is competing with the Switch. :P 

What you believe about the Amico is irrelevant. Tommy Tallarico doesn't decide what he should do based on what you believe. He is certainly very secretive about the Amico. He talks a lot, but he says very little. Of course, you are free to believe that Tommy Tallarico is delusional, but that is also irrelevant. My goal is only to show that your argument is fallacious, nothing more.

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34 minutes ago, Papy said:

That's because I wasn't born yesterday. 😉

 

Fascinating that you don't trust me. I was in this position and they literally followed my advice. You obviously know more about that situation than myself :D. Unbelievable.

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35 minutes ago, Papy said:

I previously asked you if you would respect the advice of an old lady who plays Facebook gam

Actually yes! That could be a fascinating talk and she might have some good tips.

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37 minutes ago, Papy said:

These are just a few examples. So do you understand why the idea of saying to other people if the Amico is good or not is kind of ridiculous

Ah, so actually we should never recommend anything to anybody and if they ask us, we should remain silent? That would be ridiculous. Actually, we are able to imagine different needs and tastes than ours. We often buy presents for others that we would never buy for ourselves.

 

You seem to think that there is this great divide between people who are not able to imagine what the other group likes (or night like) and why. If so, that does not correspond to my experience at all.

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1 hour ago, Papy said:

 

 

I very highly doubt the US government would allow using shell companies and then allow the parent company to commercialize the product under its name. Do you have any evidence to support your hypothesis? Because I believe it makes far more sense to imagine that the US government allows a company to demand confidentiality until the product is released. I mean... Occam's razor.

 

https://www.geekwire.com/2012/appearing-fcc-amazons-kindle-fire/

 

Actually Occam's razor would suggest that it isn't on the FCC website because it isn't certified. That is the most parsimonious explanation for its absence on the FCC.

 

:D ♥️

Edited by MrBeefy
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9 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

So there shouldn't be a need for them to hide. It isn't like Panic is competing with the Switch. :P

I would contend that neither is Intellivision.  I’m glad that Panic is trying to put out something different.  The more choices we have the better and to each their own.  It is just not of interest to me.
 

In my opinion it is overpriced by about $80 for what you are getting.  A black and white screen a la the ORIGINAL Game Boy (granted a higher resolution one at that).  No backlighting,  a la the ORIGINAL Game Boy.  Games are lackluster. It does have a crank though!
 

The Playdate IS competing with the Switch, the Lite.  For $20 more you get a better processor, better screen (backlit, color, and high def),  and access to thousands of games of a higher caliber, why would you buy a Playdate?
 

Does this argument sound familiar? 😉

 

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31 minutes ago, Lusorius said:

Ah, so actually we should never recommend anything to anybody and if they ask us, we should remain silent? That would be ridiculous. Actually, we are able to imagine different needs and tastes than ours. We often buy presents for others that we would never buy for ourselves.

 

You seem to think that there is this great divide between people who are not able to imagine what the other group likes (or night like) and why. If so, that does not correspond to my experience at all.

Yeah when people try to ask me what, "is good", I usually try and figure out other things they have liked. Just because a certain game, book, TV show is my favorite doesn't mean it will be theirs. However, if I know a little about their tastes I can recommend things that are similar. That would be like assuming any person in any restaurant/retail/bookstore/etc has literally had to try/buy/read/watch/etc. everything to make a recommendation.

 

Since He-Man has been a big topic in my talking circles recently I will use that as an example. My niece loved the original He-Man cartoons. I would actually recommend to her to watch the She-Ra cartoon over the new He-Man one. Not because She-Ra is "girly" but because it is way more lighthearted and similar to the original He-Man's than the new series which is darker and more mature.

 

Sure enough she didn't like the new series so I helped my bro track down the DVDs of the original for her to watch. :P

 

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1 minute ago, Saldo said:

I would contend that neither is Intellivision.  I’m glad that Panic is trying to put out something different.  The more choices we have the better and to each their own.  It is just not of interest to me.
 

In my opinion it is overpriced by about $80 for what you are getting.  A black and white screen a la the ORIGINAL Game Boy (granted a higher resolution one at that).  No backlighting,  a la the ORIGINAL Game Boy.  Games are lackluster. It does have a crank though!
 

The Playdate IS competing with the Switch, the Lite.  For $20 more you get a better processor, better screen (backlit, color, and high def),  and access to thousands of games of a higher caliber, why would you buy a Playdate?
 

Does this argument sound familiar? 😉

 

That's what I'm saying is that there isn't any reason for IE to hide their stuff, just like there isn't for Playdate. It is a weak niche product that isn't competing with the Switch so there isn't any point in them acting like they are some big kid toy. I'd agree for what you get, the Playdate is expensive.

 

The reason I'd say I'm interested in the Playdate is their presentations have been spot on. The press reviews have been good. They are a quirky niche product and are honest about that. They've even been open about the possibility of there not being a second season of games.

 

I will even "one up" you. Instead of a Playdate why not get an Ardoboy FX? It's only $54 and will have 200 games. It's small, cute, and niche. https://arduboy.com/fx/

 

If someone is going to ask my opinion between buying a Switch Lite or a Playdate, and if they are wanting something to play for years that will have/has had a ton of support/games, the answer is easy. Get the Switch Lite. Just because I think the Playdate is a cute little interesting item doesn't mean I need to let that run my brain on which one I think is an overall better purchase for the price. 

 

The speaker charger/stand is pretty cute though.

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18 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Yeah when people try to ask me what, "is good", I usually try and figure out other things they have liked.

Exactly. And also I am open minded. While I gave to my nephew some games he really enjoys now on his tablet (mainly emulation), he also showed me some of the games he found and plays. And yes, I hate ads there but I have to admit that some of them are also pretty fun! He changed my mind :). And I for myself play a lot of different genres: some of them are great for non-gamers and could look nice on Amico, like games from Amanita design (Pilgrims, Samorost, Botanicula etc.).

Edited by Lusorius
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