Can someone please port 8-bit Asteroids to the 5200 so we can have one that actually works?

[+playsoft]

This won't be enough to bring it up to a C- but it's a port of the (released) A8 version with the controls mapped:

 

start = start game

pause = pause/resume game

* = defence option (you have to press the trigger to choose it)

# = number of players/game type

8 = bounce on/off

0 = fast/slow asteroids

 

It seems to work OK. The _a version has a couple of minor mods, disabled attract mode and sped the defence option up (it was intentionally slow, don't know why).

 

asteroids_CXL4013.bin asteroids_CXL4013_a.bin

[Tempest]

10 minutes ago, playsoft said:

 sped the defence option up (it was intentionally slow, don't know why)

Is it different than the 400/800 version?  Is this something they changed when they 'ported' it to the 5200?

[+playsoft]

1 hour ago, Tempest said:

Is it different than the 400/800 version?  Is this something they changed when they 'ported' it to the 5200?

It's slow in the 400/800 original, by design from the looks of it.

[+DrVenkman]

If you all are true “Asteroids afficionados” take an hour or two and play @SpiceWare’s SPACE ROCKS for the 2600 or @PacManPlus’s ASTEROIDS DELUXE for the 7800. Both games nail the feel and fluid, responsive controls of ASTEROIDS and after spending a lot of time with both, it’s really hard to enjoy the 2600, 7800 or A8 vintage releases.

 

And I say that despite the fact that I played so much of the 2600 original that even almost 35 years after I last played it, I rolled the score with 7 lives remaining on Game 1, Difficulty A (small saucers) the very first time I played it again. Muscle memory, man …

[+playsoft]

In this variant player 1 has keypad control:

 

1 = rotate left

2 = rotate right

3 = defence

upper trigger = thrust

lower trigger = fire

 

Other players controlled with the joystick as before.

asteroids_CXL4013_1p_keypad.bin

[BIGHMW]

33 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

If you all are true “Asteroids afficionados” take an hour or two and play @SpiceWare’s SPACE ROCKS for the 2600 or @PacManPlus’s ASTEROIDS DELUXE for the 7800. Both games nail the feel and fluid, responsive controls of ASTEROIDS and after spending a lot of time with both, it’s really hard to enjoy the 2600, 7800 or A8 vintage releases.

 

And I say that despite the fact that I played so much of the 2600 original that even almost 35 years after I last played it, I rolled the score with 7 lives remaining on Game 1, Difficulty A (small saucers) the very first time I played it again. Muscle memory, man …

I DO have both of those as well, in fact, I reviewed Space Rocks on The Atari Report, here is that clip:

 

 

[BIGHMW]

2 hours ago, playsoft said:

This won't be enough to bring it up to a C- but it's a port of the (released) A8 version with the controls mapped:

 

start = start game

pause = pause/resume game

* = defence option (you have to press the trigger to choose it)

# = number of players/game type

8 = bounce on/off

0 = fast/slow asteroids

 

It seems to work OK. The _a version has a couple of minor mods, disabled attract mode and sped the defence option up (it was intentionally slow, don't know why).

 

asteroids_CXL4013.bin 16 kB · 4 downloads asteroids_CXL4013_a.bin 16 kB · 4 downloads

I also, like the _a version better, especially with the faster response on the shields, huge difference maker when it come to getting out of a predicament, what a way for me to wake up, to find it on my Samsung tablet and then to take the PC off of sleep mode to download and try it!!! Thanks Paul! Much better. BTW, the fast mode is my favorite.

[0078265317]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324279211071

[Tempest]

4 hours ago, playsoft said:

It's slow in the 400/800 original, by design from the looks of it.

Interesting.  I'll have to spend some more time with it I guess.  I never looked at them very closely due to the 5200 version being almost unplayable.

 

How much was changed between the 400/800 and the 5200 prototype?  Other than removing the copyright message and attempting to map the controls, was anything else changed?

[+darryl1970]

7 hours ago, playsoft said:

This won't be enough to bring it up to a C- but it's a port of the (released) A8 version with the controls mapped:

 

start = start game

pause = pause/resume game

* = defence option (you have to press the trigger to choose it)

# = number of players/game type

8 = bounce on/off

0 = fast/slow asteroids

 

It seems to work OK. The _a version has a couple of minor mods, disabled attract mode and sped the defence option up (it was intentionally slow, don't know why).

 

asteroids_CXL4013.bin 16 kB · 8 downloads asteroids_CXL4013_a.bin 16 kB · 9 downloads

I tried these on actual hardware, and it was actually decent. This was never a fun port for me. I didn't realize the asteroids were in slow mode though. I am pretty sure the original unfinished version calibrated the stick after rotating it in all directions. This is much better.

 

I also thought the game was just dog-slow. This was actually pretty fun, and it felt like Asteroids. I was able to play well with the stock controller. (I didn't try the keypad version yet.)

 

Great job and Thanks!

[BIGHMW]

36 minutes ago, darryl1970 said:

I tried these on actual hardware, and it was actually decent. This was never a fun port for me. I didn't realize the asteroids were in slow mode though. I am pretty sure the original unfinished version calibrated the stick after rotating it in all directions. This is much better.

 

I also thought the game was just dog-slow. This was actually pretty fun, and it felt like Asteroids. I was able to play well with the stock controller. (I didn't try the keypad version yet.)

 

Great job and Thanks!

Agreed, other than the copyright message this (the _a version) is the way it should've been released back in 1982, as this was going to be the original pack-in game (instead of Super Breakout, in which is just as fun and looks better on Big Sexy than the 8-bit original IMO) it could've sold more 5200 units although not as many as including Pac-Man eventually would've, it was added into the packaging in 1983. But nevertheless we finally have a port of 5200 Asteroids we can all be happy with. Thanks @playsoft!!!  

 

...and now we can finally close the book and add this into the games that made the 5200 stand out from the XEGS - in other words, Asteroids, check.

Edited July 7, 2021 by BIGHMW

[Tempest]

3 hours ago, darryl1970 said:

I am pretty sure the original unfinished version calibrated the stick after rotating it in all directions.

Can someone verify this for me?  I tried on my 5200 but it didn't seem to work.  Then again my stick is pretty decent so the game is not nearly as out of control as it can be with other sticks.

[Keatah]

When using the flip over option, the ship oscillates between both positions. It also rotates ccw if you hold it long enough.

 

Not sure if this is an Altirra issue or what.

 

[+playsoft]

23 minutes ago, Keatah said:

When using the flip over option, the ship oscillates between both positions. It also rotates ccw if you hold it long enough.

 

Not sure if this is an Altirra issue or what.

 

The A8 original behaves the same in Altirra. Maybe the idea is that you are supposed to release it just after it's changed direction IDK.

[Keatah]

7 minutes ago, playsoft said:

Maybe the idea is that you are supposed to release it just after it's changed direction IDK.

Not sure on that. It's way way too fast. If this is slower on real hardware - I'm happy work it out in the Altirra thread.

[+playsoft]

Just now, Keatah said:

Not sure on that. It's way way too fast. If this is slower on real hardware - I'm happy work it out in the Altirra thread.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Altirra or anything wrong with my port to the 5200 as I just tested the Asteroids.rom image from atarimania (which is what I disassembled and ported) on a 130XE via a UNO cart and it is exactly the same.

 

[+playsoft]

15 hours ago, Tempest said:

Interesting.  I'll have to spend some more time with it I guess.  I never looked at them very closely due to the 5200 version being almost unplayable.

 

How much was changed between the 400/800 and the 5200 prototype?  Other than removing the copyright message and attempting to map the controls, was anything else changed?

I've not looked at the 5200 prototype in detail, but it doesn't seem possible to change the defence option (you can step through them with * but it is not selected when you press the trigger). I'm also not sure how you select fast asteroids, but I did manage to do it once.

[+playsoft]

9 hours ago, Tempest said:

Can someone verify this for me?  I tried on my 5200 but it didn't seem to work.  Then again my stick is pretty decent so the game is not nearly as out of control as it can be with other sticks.

Yes. The 5200 prototype bases the thresholds (for up/down/left/right) on the range of values it's seen from the joystick. So you need to move the joystick fully up, fully down, fully left and fully right before control will function properly.

 

This would be an odd thing to have in a commercial release without there being some sort of prompt, but this was just a prototype. Since they had the A8 source code it was probably only a few hours work for someone at Atari to put the prototype together. It may have been just to test what Asteroids would play like with a CX52. 

[+playsoft]

2 hours ago, Keatah said:

Not sure on that. It's way way too fast. If this is slower on real hardware - I'm happy work it out in the Altirra thread.

You must be playing the _a version which has hacked the defence so that it operates more quickly? That then is the reason why the defence activates slowly in the original, so that the flip over is not too fast.

 

For now you could play asteroids_CXL4013.bin if you are using flip over as this version functions as per the original; play asteroids_CXL4013_a.bin if you want the hack for fast activating shields or hyperspace. I will see if I can add another hack for it to operate differently depending on which defence is selected.

[Tempest]

4 hours ago, playsoft said:

I've not looked at the 5200 prototype in detail, but it doesn't seem possible to change the defence option (you can step through them with * but it is not selected when you press the trigger). I'm also not sure how you select fast asteroids, but I did manage to do it once.

I think fast asteroids is selected with the 3 key

[+DrVenkman]

4 hours ago, playsoft said:

Yes. The 5200 prototype bases the thresholds (for up/down/left/right) on the range of values it's seen from the joystick. So you need to move the joystick fully up, fully down, fully left and fully right before control will function properly.

 

This would be an odd thing to have in a commercial release without there being some sort of prompt, but this was just a prototype. Since they had the A8 source code it was probably only a few hours work for someone at Atari to put the prototype together. It may have been just to test what Asteroids would play like with a CX52. 

I think a number of 5200 titles do this. I see similar behavior sometimes with Defender, for instance. When you start the game for the very first time, control response is a bit squirrelly the first time you move the ship for a couple seconds until the game calibrates itself, so to speak. 

[Tempest]

15 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

I think a number of 5200 titles do this. I see similar behavior sometimes with Defender, for instance. When you start the game for the very first time, control response is a bit squirrelly the first time you move the ship for a couple seconds until the game calibrates itself, so to speak. 

Really?  Now that's interesting.  I'd like to know more about this, it fits nicely into a new page I'm creating on the differences between 400/800 and 5200 ports.

[+DrVenkman]

3 minutes ago, Tempest said:

Really?  Now that's interesting.  I'd like to know more about this, it fits nicely into a new page I'm creating on the differences between 400/800 and 5200 ports.

It may not be obvious behavior if you play with the standard crap-tactic stock non-centering analog sticks. But when @MakerMatrix and I were selling thumbstick controllers based on Scott Baker’s PCB design, I would notice it just about every game. Start the game, controller centered and untouched (and the console POKEY-calibrated properly with Pete’s Test Cart), and the ship wants to drift down and sometimes move right a little bit. Move the thumbstick back up and change direction once and voila, control is fine. Subsequent games will work great after that. Turn the machine off and start over, repeat. 

 

Fortunately, it only takes a moment to dial itself in and never affects gameplay after that. 

[+playsoft]

I modified the defence hack so that shields and hyperspace are activated quickly but flip over is slow (same speed as the original).

asteroids_CXL4013_a.bin asteroids_CXL4013_1p_keypad.bin

[+playsoft]

48 minutes ago, Tempest said:

I think fast asteroids is selected with the 3 key

It does! So it's only selecting the defence option which doesn't seem to work in the prototype.