Can someone please port 8-bit Asteroids to the 5200 so we can have one that actually works?

[Tempest]

Just now, BIGHMW said:

 it may not be as simple as fixing the Todd Frye 5200 port because of how badly he botched it when he first ported it over back in 1982.

Todd didn't do the 5200 port. He did the 8-bit port and someone ported it over to the 5200.  Sort of like how Super Breakout was ported. 

[jaybird3rd]

10 minutes ago, BIGHMW said:

 

@jaybird3rd it may not be as simple as fixing the Todd Frye 5200 port because of how badly he botched it when he first ported it over back in 1982.

Well, I don't think we know for sure that Frye himself was involved in the conversion, but that aside ... perhaps it would be helpful if you made some more specific notes about what exactly you'd like to see changed.  (Re-mapping the controls to the keypad, widening or tightening the "dead zone," etc.)

[BIGHMW]

1 minute ago, Tempest said:

Todd didn't do the 5200 port. He did the 8-bit port and someone ported it over to the 5200.  Sort of like how Super Breakout was ported. 

Oh so it was whoever ported it over that messed it up for all of us in the first place and that Todd Frye did the OG version for the 8-bit back in 1981. Now I know, thanks.

[+DrVenkman]

Have you tried playing the existing version with a good, third-party self-centering controller? 

[BIGHMW]

22 minutes ago, jaybird3rd said:

Well, I don't think we know for sure that Frye himself was involved in the conversion, but that aside ... perhaps it would be helpful if you made some more specific notes about what exactly you'd like to see changed.  (Re-mapping the controls to the keypad, widening or tightening the "dead zone," etc.)

 I think that this video of one of my early episodes of The Atari Report might give you a clue on why a redo might be necessary, plus other Asteroids-like ports already on the 5200 like Star Island, Megaoids, Delta Space Arena, and Meteorites don't have this same problem, they run fine, everything's centered, and with the same amount of 'dead zone' as there should be, even with both the analog CX52 and also the digital CX24 stick I use with Redemption 5200 7800 Edition.

 

The 5200 port, however, sometimes either runs out of control on the "X" axis or on the "Y" axis at times, regardless of controller used or what technology that controller utilizes. The 8-bit port (tested on both an XEGS and a 65XE, using both a Flashback CX40 and a Best CX24) runs smoothly on all controllers, that's why I believe a re-port might be necessary, we'll see, that's why I included both ports on this thread.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by BIGHMW

[BIGHMW]

8 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Have you tried playing the existing version with a good, third-party self-centering controller? 

Yes, the Best lifetime CX24 (run through Redemption 5200 7800 Edition) I just got a few weeks ago. It's a matter of programming IMO, we'll see.

[phuzaxeman]

1 hour ago, Tempest said:

Todd didn't do the 5200 port. He did the 8-bit port and someone ported it over to the 5200.  Sort of like how Super Breakout was ported. 

5200 Super Breakout was a direct port from the 8bit?  I have both versions but the 5200 version looks better and updated and made for the 5200 analog sticks.

[Tempest]

16 minutes ago, phuzaxeman said:

5200 Super Breakout was a direct port from the 8bit?  I have both versions but the 5200 version looks better and updated and made for the 5200 analog sticks.

It was a slightly tweaked port, there are minor differences.  Besides the control change there were some sound effects added and a little animation of the bricks melting when hit.  Sort of how Star Raiders had a few things added. 

[phuzaxeman]

14 minutes ago, Tempest said:

It was a slightly tweaked port, there are minor differences.  Besides the control change there were some sound effects added and a little animation of the bricks melting when hit.  Sort of how Star Raiders had a few things added. 

There are brighter colors and the play field is outlined in white on the 5200 vs a duller green outline in the 8bit.  Those minor differences with sound and animation really do make a difference and make the 5200 version better.

 

5200 Centipede in 82 was on a different planet compared to the 8bit. 

[rayik]

6 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

The thing was is that this game WAS originally ported to the 5200 except it was botched when it was first done, all I want to see happen is to have it done right, albeit almost 40 years later. 

 

In other words to conclude my case I just want to see it fixed so it will finally, work properly, it was ported, so let's do it right this time.

 

Saying that somebody who volunteered their time to do the original port "botched" it, is not going to encourage anyone to now want to "re-port" it. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by rayik

[+Cafeman]

Atari 8-bit Asteroids was up to a 4-player simultaneous game, which is impressive.  There are a lot of rocks flying around too.   I did not check what graphics mode it uses, but it appears the asteroids and player shots are blitted using EOR statements and it appears all the same color register. ANTIC C or D possibly?  It doesn't look like a 4 color mode to me, but looks like a 2 color mode. 

 

If there was a disassembly of the game, it shouldn't be hard to calm down the sensitivity. Not sure how to make the rocks prettier.

[MrTrust]

Man, if you just put the same amount of effort that you do hectoring people to do all this conversion work into reading a bit about programming, think of what you could accomplish.

[BIGHMW]

1 hour ago, rayik said:

 

Saying that somebody who volunteered their time to do the original port "botched" it, is not going to encourage anyone to now want to "re-port" it. 

I'll be willing to pay somebody here on AA (provided it not be for a lot as I am on a budget) to do it, as I knoiw that everyone here, is great enough to be a game programmer if they wanted to, we have such tremendous talent here so I could ask them, heck, I would've paid some of the others who did some of the other conversions in the past like when @playsoft did convert both Yar's Strike and Star Island last year if they wanted it. @CPUWIZ is another great talent in whom I have dealt with in the past, he loaned me out some money last year in order to help me get a near-mint 7800 ProSystem (the plastic foil was even still on the metal bezel) while we awaited Concerto to come out and I paid him back, I'm sure one of those guys would be more than willing to do the conversion, they know where to find both me and the two ports to try and either fix or re-port this great blast 'em up classic. I know I can count on them (or any of you guys for that matter) to get it done right. PM me if you guys are interested, you know where to find me.

 

....and yes the 8-bit Asteroids DID (and still does) feature 4-player simultaneous play capability and so do the 1982 5200 re-port of it as well. The only difference between the two was the "Copyright 1981 Atari" wording on the bottom of the display of the 8-bit version but other than that they're both the same, so it should be a piece of cake.

[BIGHMW]

1 hour ago, rayik said:

 

Saying that somebody who volunteered their time to do the original port "botched" it, is not going to encourage anyone to now want to "re-port" it. 

Let's just safely say that it just wasn't done right, someone at R & D at Atari should've addressed it with whoever programmed it because this is such a great game that it was a shame that it went to waste. Like I said on both the video and here on AA it was supposed to have been the original pack-in game instead of Super Breakout and this could've sold more units (although not as many as Pac-Man, eventually did). It had (and still has) potential to be a 5200 classic mainly because of its up-to-4-player simultaneous play modes. No other system had that ability, only Big Sexy did, and only on a 4-port unit like her, the only system that had 4 ports at that time.

[BIGHMW]

58 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

Man, if you just put the same amount of effort that you do hectoring people to do all this conversion work into reading a bit about programming, think of what you could accomplish.

I wish I COULD learn programming except when I inquired about doing so, as I own both a 5200 and an XEGS and a 65XE and a Windows 7 Pro laptop to do it on I was told it would not be easy for someone who would be a newbie like me, it would've taken years for me to actually learn it, and even longer and more frustrating due to my developmental issues, but in my younger days (late teens/early 20s) in the 80s I could've taken it up easily if my late control-freak-like mother didn't stop me or hold me back from doing things in which I why I have been relegated to asking other programmers to (hopefully) do conversions for me. Fortunately, I found a ton of great guys like you guys here on AA as I live very far away from Seattle (Port Townsend) and there are not very many there who know vintage 6502 programming let alone do it for a living or a hobby (except maybe @Ryan Witmer down I-5 in Burien, who is quite busy with doing the fantastic Rob 'n' Banks in which is a 5200 port of Lock 'n' Chase he's doing up after coming out with the instant classic Intellidiscs earlier this year), so I don't know where to turn to here in the PNW let alone the Olympic Peninsula (Port Townsend/Sequim/Port Angeles area).

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

[MrTrust]

2 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

I wish I COULD learn programming except when I inquired about doing so, as I own both a 5200 and an XEGS and a 65XE and a Windows 7 Pro laptop to do it on I was told it would not be easy...

 

I don't you, dude, and I don't follow your stuff all that closely, but you're an industrious and capable enough guy that could could learn some programming.  6502?  I don't know; I don't have any cognitive disabilities (so far as I know), and as I try to learn it, I feel like I might as well have.

 

But that's the thing, man.  It's not easy; even if you're experienced, and even if you're not dealing with a disability.  It still takes a lot of guess work, trial and error, and frustration.  If it didn't, the 5200 version of Asteroids wouldn't be fucked up in the first place.

 

These wizards who know how to do all this have given us A LOT of stuff, you know?  A lot.  All ROMs you have, all the tools, all the games, the databases, all the resources, it's a treasure trove that would be unthinkable without God knows how much blood, sweat, and tears, and  we're getting it all for either for free, or for a pittance.  The sheer levels of opulent Atari gluttony that are possible right now are off the chain.

 

I don't know if you, personally, need to hear that or not, but I think it ought to be reiterated whenever these gimme'-gimme'-gimme' threads come up.  Moat of us here don't actually do anything to make any of this stuff happen, do maybe just take what we get and be happy with that a little more often?

[phuzaxeman]

9 hours ago, Tempest said:

It was a slightly tweaked port, there are minor differences.  Besides the control change there were some sound effects added and a little animation of the bricks melting when hit.  Sort of how Star Raiders had a few things added. 

I have a vector asteroids version that is decent.  Looks like a hack.  The controls turn at the beginning but its playable.

[BIGHMW]

11 minutes ago, phuzaxeman said:

I have a vector asteroids version that is decent.  Looks like a hack.  The controls turn at the beginning but its playable.

That's the same problem I have with both it and the 5200 port of the OG version, the controls on your ship spin, but a little herky-jerky action with the joystick (regardless digital CX24 or analog CX52) and it's as good as playable, and, as seen on my video review of Asteroids it's when it goes between thrust and shields that is when I have THE most trouble with those two ports, sometimes thrusting out of control, causing me to lose complete control of my ship and crash into either space debris or an enemy UFO, and that is what plagues this port in which was why I suggested the re-port, as the 8-bit version doesn't seem to have this problem (and I have played both).

[Wrathchild]

3 hours ago, phuzaxeman said:

I have a vector asteroids version that is decent.

This one? https://norbertkehrer.github.io/ast800xl.html

 

Considering its an emulation of the Arcade ROM set you won't get much closer

 

However I'm not sure if that can be crammed into a 5200, I would think maybe possible with bank switching but would need to investigate as on the XL I believe it uses all the 64K of RAM.

 

Plus, other A8 and 5200 projects would be in the queue before that anyway.

[+GoldLeader]

@BIGHMW

 

No disrespect,  you seem like a nice guy...

 

But I wonder if somewhere down the road you got some bad advice?  Perhaps you heard the sentence,  "Ask and ye shall receive",  and took it to heart a little too much.   A much better paradigm to live your life by would be "It doesn't hurt to ask".  See how the latter has humility?  And if the answer is no, or "It's not worth it",  Well... you move on.  At least you tried.  We don't always get what we want.

 

I find it interesting that when you want someone else to do it;  By your own admission,  without knowing,  It's  a "simple" re-port.  It should be easy.  A walk in the park.

 

But when it's suggested that you should do it;  It's hard.  Programming would take way too long to learn.  I can't.

[Tempest]

I did a little update to my site last night.  This seems as good a place as any to mention it since it's oddly on topic:

 

http://www.atariprotos.com/5200/software/3dasteroids/3dasteroids.htm

[turret]

its very amusing to see you ask for someone to port over the atari 400/800 version to the 5200, when the existing 5200 version is already that, but w/e

5 minutes ago, Tempest said:

I did a little update to my site last night.  This seems as good a place as any to mention it since it's oddly on topic:

 

http://www.atariprotos.com/5200/software/3dasteroids/3dasteroids.htm

Very cool to see this finally see the light of day, i wondered for a while what that demo looked like, impressive for the system. 

if only Atari went for more than a quick conversion of the 8 bit version for the 5200.. 

[Tempest]

2 hours ago, turret said:

Very cool to see this finally see the light of day, i wondered for a while what that demo looked like, impressive for the system. 

if only Atari went for more than a quick conversion of the 8 bit version for the 5200.. 

So you had heard about this demo then?  I've had the rom for a while now but kind of forgot about it.  I'll ask if the rom can be released or not.

[+playsoft]

11 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

That's the same problem I have with both it and the 5200 port of the OG version, the controls on your ship spin, but a little herky-jerky action with the joystick (regardless digital CX24 or analog CX52) and it's as good as playable, and, as seen on my video review of Asteroids it's when it goes between thrust and shields that is when I have THE most trouble with those two ports, sometimes thrusting out of control, causing me to lose complete control of my ship and crash into either space debris or an enemy UFO, and that is what plagues this port in which was why I suggested the re-port, as the 8-bit version doesn't seem to have this problem (and I have played both).

Have you checked what values your controllers are returning with that cal program, if so what were they? It might be that you need to calibrate your 5200, when was the last time you opened it up and performed controller calibration?