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BIGHMW

Can someone please port 8-bit Asteroids to the 5200 so we can have one that actually works?

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Just now, BIGHMW said:

OK I'll do that. Thanks. I'll refrain from using that term.

Thanks BIGHMW, hopefully you can get this Asteroids port soon. Have a great weekend and enjoy other 5200 ports in the meantime. 

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1 hour ago, a6502 said:

Thanks BIGHMW, hopefully you can get this Asteroids port soon. Have a great weekend and enjoy other 5200 ports in the meantime. 

Thanks, and here it is again if anybody wants to take it on :)  Take care and peace out everybody!!!

 

 

Asteroids.bin Asteroids.xex

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1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Nothing rare about that. None of the 2 ports originally came with 4 port bios chips in them. Just means you got one where someone put a 4 port bios chip in it. You can get replacement 4 port chips made for use in the 5200 with no modification required aside from replacing out the chip. I might even still have one or 2 spare 4 port actual bios chips on hand that I've removed from dead 4 port 5200 parts donor boards.

 

Nah, the first run of 2port 5200s had the original (4port) BIOS. It was the later ones that had the revised, PAL enabled (2port) BIOS.

 

Mitch

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38 minutes ago, Mitch said:

Nah, the first run of 2port 5200s had the original (4port) BIOS. It was the later ones that had the revised, PAL enabled (2port) BIOS.

 

Mitch

Makes sense, and I was NOT aware of that! Thanks! Wonder if that is something I should check on when servicing them in the future by trying out Krazy Shootout or Pitfall! hmm...

 

 

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2 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Makes sense, and I was NOT aware of that! Thanks! Wonder if that is something I should check on when servicing them in the future by trying out Krazy Shootout or Pitfall! hmm...

 

 

If you have it open, it is easier to just check the part number on the BIOS chip. The revised BIOS has an A at the end of it.

 

Mitch

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5 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Makes sense, and I was NOT aware of that! Thanks! Wonder if that is something I should check on when servicing them in the future by trying out Krazy Shootout or Pitfall! hmm...

 

 

....and Mountain King, and Thetris, those are the other ones that don't work, BTW, there are 2-port hacks of all 4 titles, I ran into them when I got that massive collection of 5200 ROMs BITD in which I paid for, so here they are for those who happen to own a later 2-port unit with the revised 2-port BIOS:

 

I don't know if they actually work or not, all I know is that they were included package that I got years ago.

 

 

K-Razy Shootout (2 port hack).bin Mountain King (2 port hack).bin Pitfall! (2 port hack).bin Thetris (2-port).bin

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On 7/3/2021 at 6:07 PM, BIGHMW said:

Thanks, and here it is again if anybody wants to take it on :)  Take care and peace out everybody!!!

 

 

Asteroids.bin 16 kB · 3 downloads Asteroids.xex 8.07 kB · 3 downloads

Well I guess you're never going to tell me what values you get from your controllers, so here is the original Asteroids port hacked to use a fixed threshold (same as Wing War). I've only tested controller #1 under emulation but if it works for you please do not call it a "fix" or the original port "botched" because I suspect there is nothing wrong with it, just that the more sophisticated threshold algorithm might not work so well on a 38 year old console that has never been recalibrated.

 

By the way I don't know where your 16K image comes from but the two 8K halves are identical other than what looks like 3 rows of screen data containing:

 

COPIED

CFE SERVICES
HARDIE

Asteroids_hack_8K.bin

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Posted (edited)

NOW it's right where it should be/should've been back in 1982, Thanks Paul! :)  Controls (using a Best Lifetime CX24 with AA Redemption 5200 - 7800 version) are perfect, my hunch was right! First play 15,000 and no control issues during that gameplay. Just what it needed!

 

Take care and THANK YOU!!!

 

Ray

Edited by BIGHMW

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Just tried it with my Best Lifetime Gold CX52 and no issues there either, so both analog and digital work flawlessly.

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I'm really beginning to get my groove going on on this great hack that @playsoft did on the much-maligned 5200 port of Asteroids, I just got off of posting my highest scores ever on this port and climbing (over 17,000 on my last play)!!! Hell, I've already surpassed my high totals on the 8-bit version, indeed just what this classic needed so badly for almost 40 years!!! Even the (up-to) 4 player modes (both patrol and combat, with not only Standard Play but also Melee, Co-op, and Team modes) are fully intact on it. Well done Paul!!! :) 

 

I do have a tip for you fellow players, regardless of whether you own a 5200 or 8-bit version, if the asteroids get a little too close and you don't feel confident about thrusting out of the way, then hit the shields (by moving the joystick downward), the space junk (and also oncoming attack saucers and their shots) will go right through you, in a ghost-like effect, it's almost like having an inviso mode in this game, highly recommended, that strategy is what I use in a close predicament, you'll save yourself from being destroyed.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, playsoft said:

Well I guess you're never going to tell me what values you get from your controllers, so here is the original Asteroids port hacked to use a fixed threshold (same as Wing War). I've only tested controller #1 under emulation but if it works for you please do not call it a "fix" or the original port "botched" because I suspect there is nothing wrong with it, just that the more sophisticated threshold algorithm might not work so well on a 38 year old console that has never been recalibrated.

 

By the way I don't know where your 16K image comes from but the two 8K halves are identical other than what looks like 3 rows of screen data containing:

 

COPIED

CFE SERVICES
HARDIE

Asteroids_hack_8K.bin 8 kB · 9 downloads

Quite interesting that the 16K ROM I had was actually an 8K port doubled up, perhaps that and the threshold it (and the other 5200 Asteroids ports before this) used at that time that was causing the erratic control on this (otherwise) terrific game. I am having much better control now the fixed threshold you included in this hack made the differrence. :) 

 

BTW, as for the re-calibration process this same problem also occurred with my other 2 5200 units I owned prior to the one I'm currently using (my original 4-port I got for my 17th Birthday back in 1983, and also my a/v-modded 4-port) as well, do I feel fortunate to have tremendously-talented (and nice) guys like you who are able to just do wonders to make these classics come alive and this was one hack that was 39 years in the making and now puts the 5200 back on top if it came to owning only one system.

 

Yeah the XEGS may have tons of the best titles, but, the 5200 has tons of the best titles (notice the bold type of certain words when describing both units), and sometimes quality will always beat quantity, and in this case it does. So yeah while it is true that Big Sexy might not be able to play everything, she has all the hits, just like a good-old AM Top-40 radio station used to have in my day growing up as a kid down in L.A. (born in 1966, moved to the Northwest in 1987)

Edited by BIGHMW
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On 7/2/2021 at 6:07 AM, phuzaxeman said:

I have a vector asteroids version that is decent.  Looks like a hack.  The controls turn at the beginning but its playable.

This is what I'd expect from the (unhacked) 5200 prototype. It allocates the dead zone based on the range of values it gets from the controllers so it won't know that range until it's seen a full up/down/left/right on the joystick. Once it's had that it's playable.

 

5 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

Quite interesting that the 16K ROM I had was actually an 8K port doubled up, perhaps that and the threshold it (and the other 5200 Asteroids ports before this) used at that time that was causing the erratic control on this (otherwise) terrific game. I am having much better control now the fixed threshold you included in this hack made the differrence. :) 

 

BTW, as for the re-calibration process this same problem also occurred with my other 2 5200 units I owned prior to the one I'm currently using (my original 4-port I got for my 17th Birthday back in 1983, and also my a/v-modded 4-port) as well, do I feel fortunate to have tremendously-talented (and nice) guys like you who are able to just do wonders to make these classics come alive and this was one hack that was 39 years in the making and now puts the 5200 back on top if it came to owning only one system.

 

Yeah the XEGS may have tons of the best titles, but, the 5200 has tons of the best titles (notice the bold type of certain words when describing both units), and sometimes quality will always beat quantity, and in this case it does. So yeah while it is true that Big Sexy might not be able to play everything, she has all the hits, just like a good-old AM Top-40 radio station used to have in my day growing up as a kid down in L.A. (born in 1966, moved to the Northwest in 1987)

It would be best to use an image dumped straight from the prototype cart but I don't imagine the controller code was modified. I am sure the first thing Atari would have tried is a simple fixed threshold. Perhaps this more sophisticated method was an attempt to improve on it that backfired and it just happens to be this prototype cart that was found. Or it's over engineering. Or all of your consoles are out. When I next set up my 5200 I will see how the unhacked prototype plays for me.

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20 hours ago, playsoft said:

By the way I don't know where your 16K image comes from but the two 8K halves are identical other than what looks like 3 rows of screen data containing:

 

COPIED

CFE SERVICES
HARDIE

That should probably be CGE Services as in the Classic Gaming Expo that the DP guys used to host out in Vegas back in the late 90's and 2000's.  I know John Hardie got his hands on a bunch of 5200 prototypes from Dan Kramer and some other sources, dumped them, and released them around that time.  It would appear that Asteroids was one of those prototypes.

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I now understand why this pisses people off.

 

Never asking for shit again.

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1 hour ago, sn8k said:

I now understand why this pisses people off.

 

Never asking for shit again.

...and now I don't have to worry about it anymore either,  what ever ports come out I'll just leave it up to the dev's but at least Asteroids is finally where it should've been back in 1982.

 

Now that we have the hack maybe I should get a repro cart of Asteroids from either right here at AA or Good Deal Games and learn how to burn an EPROM of it and then do a swap taking out the faulty OG one and putting in this to replace it. Then CX5201 will be where it should be/should've been back in 1982. 

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13 minutes ago, BIGHMW said:
2 hours ago, sn8k said:

I now understand why this pisses people off.

 

Never asking for shit again.

...and now I don't have to worry about it anymore either,  what ever ports come out I'll just leave it up to the dev's but at least Asteroids is finally where it should've been back in 1982.

 

Quoting and starting the countdown until the next one!

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Posted (edited)

The Flip-Over effect and Hyperspace don't seem to be working. And there is at least a 500msec delay between pressing the shield button and any response. Just that one action has this huge lag. Rotate, thrust, fire seems to be fine with a nominal ~30msec delay.

 

FWIW playing in Altirra.

 

Edited by Keatah

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31 minutes ago, Keatah said:

The Flip-Over effect and Hyperspace don't seem to be working. And there is at least a 500msec delay between pressing the shield button and any response. Just that one action has this huge lag. Rotate, thrust, fire seems to be fine with a nominal ~30msec delay.

 

FWIW playing in Altirra.

 

Just checked the A8 port on my XEGS against the 5200 version and had the same problems you are having on it too, in fact both ports now behave the same, as I also have the same lag time on the XEGS as I do on the 5200. As for the hyperspace and flip over modes they also don't work on the A8 port so that issue stems from the OG version from 1981 and not the 5200 one, but Paul did a great job on making sure the gameplay is the same on both, well done. The game is now where it should've been, I'm happy that I can finally play it on Big Sexy and now only need to go to the XEGS for the more powerful ports that we know the 5200 can't play due to the difference in the amount of RAM they each have.

 

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It seems to me like the A8 original game also takes a long time to activate the shields but it does have flip over, hyperspace and no effect - where the 5200 prototype has shields regardless of the selection.

 

Edit: Looking at the A8 original 8K cart every byte appears to be used; on the 5200 prototype it looks like there's about 1.5K free so maybe flip over and hyperspace were removed.

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3 hours ago, Tempest said:

That should probably be CGE Services as in the Classic Gaming Expo that the DP guys used to host out in Vegas back in the late 90's and 2000's.  I know John Hardie got his hands on a bunch of 5200 prototypes from Dan Kramer and some other sources, dumped them, and released them around that time.  It would appear that Asteroids was one of those prototypes.

Interesting, I wondered if anyone would know (I googled CFE Services and Hardie but didn't get any hits).

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Posted (edited)
On 7/3/2021 at 10:48 AM, BIGHMW said:

Yeah, try out @playsoft's great conversion of Star Island, a terrific version of Star Castle he did last year that I think you guys will enjoy and want to add onto your SD cards in your Atarimax. Now it, unlike the 1982 5200 port of Asteroids, doesn't have any issues on it so I don't know why it doesn't have any control issues but yet Asteroids does for some reason.

 

But anyway enjoy Star Island, Star Castle made in 1982 by Stedek Software for the 8-bit and converted perfectly to the 5200 last year, special shout-out goes to @phuzaxeman for making me aware of this great game, we all always wished for a 5200/8-bit port of Star Castle especially since the 2600 had that brilliant one that was done a few years ago. I even reviewed it on The Atari Report when it came out last year.

 

 

 

Star Island.bin 16 kB · 8 downloads

As a long time 8bit user, you haven't even scratched the surface on your amazing atari computer. The fact that you wanted Asteroids on the 5200 so bad tells me you have missed so many great Atari 8bit games. Have you ever played Alternate Reality City, Autoduel, Infiltrator, Seven Cities of Gold, Mail Order Monsters, Racing Construction Set, Ninja, World Karate Championship, Silence Service?  Just to name a few....I could go on and name a top 50 list. There are so many gems on the 8bit that there was no need to request asteroids so many times and annoy so many people. 

 

#fortheH

Edited by phuzaxeman

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15 minutes ago, phuzaxeman said:

As a long time 8bit user, you haven't even scratched the surface on your amazing atari computer. The fact that you wanted Asteroids on the 5200 so bad tells me you have missed so many great Atari 8bit games. Have you ever played Alternate Reality City, Autoduel, Infiltrator, Seven Cities of Gold, Mail Order Monsters, Racing Construction Set, Ninja, World Karate Championship, Silence Service?  Just to name a few....I could go on and name a top 50 list. There are so many gems on the 8bit that there was no need to request asteroids so many times and annoy so many people. 

 

#fortheH

Bro I have always been a 5200 guy and got my XEGS and 65XE just late last year but yes there are a ton of great games on both, in fact, it was the fact that not every 8-bit program can be converted over, like Time Pilot, WarGames, Food Fight, and Arkanoid can't be converted because they require more RAM, that prompted me to get an 8-bit computer.

 

And while it's true that not every game can be on only one system, the reason that I wanted to get Asteroids done was due to the original 5200 port not being where it should be, as well as the fact that it was originally scheduled to be released for it as the pack-in cart, in which IMO would've sold more units than Super Breakout (but not as many as Pac-Man did) did. Now I can finally play a complete system as it was originally intended back when it first came out back in 1982. It was kinda disappointing that you look at the earlier pamphlets for the 5200 and see the box for Asteroids only to find out later that it would never be released, now I hope perhaps maybe @Albert can put it for sale at the AA shop.

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1 hour ago, phuzaxeman said:

Just to name a few....I could go on and name a top 50 list. There are so many gems on the 8bit that there was no need to request asteroids so many times and annoy so many people. 

Please don't do that - if any aren't on both systems, we'll get a thread for each and every one.

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28 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Please don't do that - if any aren't on both systems, we'll get a thread for each and every one.

For the purposes of starting threads, does the Zork trilogy get combined into one single thread or does each individual game get its own thread?

 

Man, playing Zork I, II, or III on the 5200 would be a blast.  The CX52 was just made for them.

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