USB keyboard adapter - where on XE board to wire function keys?

[Beeblebrox]

Hi.

Just received my USB AKI keyboard adapter to install in my 65XE. Unfortunately there are no instructions, (or the 4 x wires) included with the adapter.

 

I understand the non-inclusion of instructions is standard from past experience, so I went to the website. However whilst there is a brief set of installation instructions and the image below, there is unfortunately nothing to indicate where you might wire the START/SELECT/OPTION/RESET function keys to on the various Atari XL/XE PCBs, or in my case the 65XE (REv B) PCB. I know there are several PCB layouts but at present I have absolutely no idea where to find the info having had a good look.

 

 

I've looked on AA using many different combos of keywords for help with this particular adapter install as well as the general XE PCB schematics to indicate where they points for the function keys are located. Plenty of reference to USB keyboard projects and also this particular adapter, no info about the wiring points. 

I've also tried Google and YouTube so exhausted all avenues before posting.

 

I think I need to wire the four pins on the adapter to the resistors in this top area in the green box, (image of my 65XE below), but I can be sure if I am correct and and which resistors relate to which function keys:

 

 

Bit frustrated. 

 

Any help would be most appreciated.

 

thanks

 

UPDATE:

 

I may have just found a lil more info on AA (murphy's law), but still not sure and no idea regarding the RESET key. 

 

I found a reference to this:

 

....START/SELECT/OPTION resistors 134,135,136

 

Still, I can be sure anyway as I don't have a schematic that shows ALL the XE resistor numbers on the board to reference them. (My general annotated 130XE schematic only numbers key ICs and some resistors. 

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Beeblebrox

[TGB1718]

The resistors in your photo look the correct value (220 Ohms), you will have to identify which ones they are

see diagram below, R134,135 and 136 for start/select/option and find L14 for reset.

 

You can always use a meter to continuity check between the keyboard connector and the resistors,

fortunately the 4 contacts on the far right hand side of the connector are the ones you want

 

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by TGB1718

[Beeblebrox]

19 minutes ago, TGB1718 said:

The resistors in your photo look the correct value (220 Ohms), you will have to identify which ones they are

see diagram below, R134,135 and 136 for start/select/option and find L14 for reset.

 

You can always use a meter to continuity check between the keyboard connector and the resistors,

fortunately the 4 contacts on the far right hand side of the connector are the ones you want

 

 

@TGB1718 Ah you star.  Thanks

[Beeblebrox]

@TGB1718 After around an hour of prep/soldering work and thanks to the info above, I am now the very happy owner of one Atari 65XE with .......a USB keyboard!!  Thanks so much for your prompt assistance! 

 

I salvaged some spare wires from an old USB cable, tined and soldered them to the 4 x header pins on the USB adapter unit's PCB for the function keys.

 

Managed to then solder the other end directly to the 24 pin keyboard connector topside at the junction where connector meets the Atari PCB for each of the 4 function keys. (Melted the connector plastic in the process mind - that's a pleasant aroma).

 

Incidentally I was gonna go in from under the board but I didn't have enough wire. Besides, I've already got other timing patch wiring going through the nearby available hole, so it would have been too fiddly/possibly trap wires when getting the PCB back on the base casing because of the mounting pillar. (Mainly it was not being patient enough to find longer wire if I am honest! ).

 

I used heat shrink to protect each cable as much as poss. Not the best soldering job I know, (I am still learning), but it booted up fine.

 

Gotta tell ya it's so satisfying having a modern USB keyboard hooked up to my Atari. (Image below if anyone is interested in doing this install themselves).

 

As I say unfortunately the adapter comes with no instructions so after a little key jabbing I finally realised that the following USB keyboards map to the following function keys:

 

Help = F1

Start = F2

Select = F3

Option = F4

Reset = F5

 

Amazing bit of kit and very affordable. I highly recommend it and the build quality is amazing. 

 

My only constructive criticisms/feedback as a buyer are:

 

• If you have a policy not to include paper instructions with products (fair enough), it would be good to have full online instructions and at least a variety of common/stock Atari PCB reference docs available online so it is easier to find the above information. (I appreciate it is old tech these new devices are going into but it would make it so much easier for the end user.)
• It's not immediately obvious you need to provide your own function key adapter to Atari PCB wiring. I must admit I assumed all I needed to install it would be included (excluding tools of course heh heh). If this was mentioned then I would know in advance and buy some. Luckily I am fairly resourceful.
• It would be good to know which USB keyboard keys are actually finally mapped to the Atari function keys. Sure - you can find out by trial and error that it is F1 thru F5, but it doesn't hurt to list them.

 

So - coupled with my MouSTer USB mouse adapter and this new USB keyboard adapter, I can now easily use my Atari alongside my Windows laptop and monitors. 

 

I feel a session of the Brundles coming on again!

 

In other related news, (in terms of this Atari 65XE and the other ongoing issues here); I am getting the 74F08 chip delivered tmrw so will install it in place of the suspect 74LS08 chip. Hopefully I'll be able to get my SIDE3 cart to work afterwards. I recently aquired an excellent Sys Check 2.2 unit and this afternoon I ran a diagnosis of this Atari with the U1MB unplugged just to make sure the OS and RAM chips were ok - which they were. I think I eliminated other chip issues the other day, so the main cuprit is probably the 74LS08. Then I'll likely be checking capacitors. 

 

thanks 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Beeblebrox
typos

[+MrFish]

I suggest wiring up the reset line to one of these:

 

 

[TGB1718]

11 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

(Melted the connector plastic in the process mind - that's a pleasant aroma).

Always a risky proposition going near plastic with a red hot iron

 

Glad you got it going, I might go for one of those myself, I can use a USB keyboard, but my solution uses

an Arduino with a USB HAT connected to Joystick Port 2, but your board requires no code in the 8 bit

[Beeblebrox]

3 minutes ago, MrFish said:

I suggest wiring up the reset line to one of these:

 

 

That bad huh? 

[+MrFish]

10 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

That bad huh? 

 

Ehh... one switch is as good as another...  

 

 

[+DrVenkman]

1 hour ago, Beeblebrox said:

Managed to then solder the other end directly to the 24 pin keyboard connector topside at the junction where connector meets the Atari PCB for each of the 4 function keys. (Melted the connector plastic in the process mind - that's a pleasant aroma).

Cheap, polyimide heat tape (generic Kapton) works great to help prevent that. It’s cheap, too, and easy to remove after the work is done. 

[+MrFish]

2 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

That bad huh? 

 

Wasn't making a comment about your work; I just thought it'd make an interesting reset switch (a little large for the desk, maybe).

 

Here's something more compact, and it's USB; although I doubt the interface can handle multiple devices.

 

 

 

 

[Beeblebrox]

9 minutes ago, MrFish said:

 

Wasn't making a comment about your work; I just thought it'd make an interesting reset switch (a little large for the desk, maybe).

 

Here's something more compact, and it's USB; although I doubt the interface can handle multiple devices.

 

 

 

 

No worries   Heh heh I like this one above even more.

 

Of course you could go even more retro, here's Start, Select and Option covered:

 

 

 

[+MrFish]

1 minute ago, Beeblebrox said:

No worries   Heh heh I like this one above even more.

 

Of course you could go even more retro, here's Start, Select and Option covered:

 

 

Nice!

 

Although my idea was about the <RESET> switch specifically, because it's more volatile than the other console keys. I suppose it'd be even more applicable if you were using some form of alternate switch for <COLDSTART>.

 

[Dinadan67]

On my small wireless keyboard unfortunately there are no keys mapped to ´break´ , ´<´ and ´>´. How does your keyboard fare in that regard?

[Beeblebrox]

4 minutes ago, Dinadan67 said:

On my small wireless keyboard unfortunately there are no keys mapped to ´break´ , ´<´ and ´>´. How does your keyboard fare in that regard?

@Dinadan67  I'll boot it up later and have a look. Must admit didn't test those. Will get back to ya. 

[+mytek]

Although I'm a bit late at mentioning this, there is a page on my website that shows the location of those particular hook-up points covering the XL/XE line of computers. It also shows where to pick up the BELL and A4 lines for people doing stereo pokey installs. Unlike what the OP did, these suggested solder points won't interfere with also using the stock keyboard as well.

 

 

PAGE LINK

 

I really don't understand why Lotharek doesn't provide better installation documentation for his products, after all he is selling and making money off of his stuff, whereas I don't

 

 

 

[Panther]

[Beeblebrox]

3 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

@Dinadan67  I'll boot it up later and have a look. Must admit didn't test those. Will get back to ya. 

@Dinadan67 ok just booted her up - ya right, from what I can tell there are no keys mapped to ´break´ , ´<´ and ´>´ like you have found. Interestingly though, if you are in the self test keyboard test and you hit berak on the Atari keyboard itself, nothing registers.

 

Wonder if anyone else has found any other keys that don't map over?

[Beeblebrox]

32 minutes ago, mytek said:

Although I'm a bit late at mentioning this, there is a page on my website that shows the location of those particular hook-up points covering the XL/XE line of computers. It also shows where to pick up the BELL and A4 lines for people doing stereo pokey installs. Unlike what the OP did, these suggested solder points won't interfere with also using the stock keyboard as well.

 

 

PAGE LINK

 

I really don't understand why Lotharek doesn't provide better installation documentation for his products, after all he is selling and making money off of his stuff, whereas I don't

 

 

 

@mytek  thanks for posting this - very helpful in general.  Would be great if the required/relevant info was just linked on the product pages if not included with the product on delivery. (Online is ideal as you can update it easily). 

 

Anyhoo - very happy with my USB keyboard setup. What's more the 74F08 chip arrived this afteroon to replace the dodgy 74LS08 chip. Appears to have worked instantly restoring the stability and instantly my SIDE3 cart booted properly! Very happy.  Currently running Numen demo and have been loading up loadsa demanding games. No instability so far. 

[+mytek]

2 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

very happy with my USB keyboard setup. What's more the 74F08 chip arrived this afteroon to replace the dodgy 74LS08 chip. Appears to have worked instantly restoring the stability and instantly my SIDE3 cart booted properly!

This really should be standard practice for all systems when modded. It can't hurt, but in many cases fixes timing issues. Such a cheap and easy fix (assuming that chip is socketed).

[Beeblebrox]

46 minutes ago, mytek said:

This really should be standard practice for all systems when modded. It can't hurt, but in many cases fixes timing issues. Such a cheap and easy fix (assuming that chip is socketed).

@mytekAgreed. I had to add a 14pin socket for this chip but I am getting fairly adept at removing the chips and adding in the sockets. (40pin ICs are a particular challenge but I've socketed all but the CPU,ANTIC and FREDDIE on this XE). Makes a massive difference when testing and for upgrades/replacements in future. That and the excellent Sys Check 2.2 diagnosis board are great in that respect.

 

Now all I have gotta do is cut the USB keyboard port hole in the base of the XE case and I am done in terms of this particular upgrade.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Beeblebrox
typos

[Beeblebrox]

Modded the case to mount the USB socket yesterday. Found it fitted perfectly to the right of the SIO, just above the 2nd joystick port connector. Finally can close the lid 

 

[Beeblebrox]

Incidentally has anyone tried to use a simple USB cable extender with this USB AKI adapter?  I couldn't get it to recognise or power the same keyboard that works when I plug it straight into the adapter's USB port? I don't think the fact the cable extender I bought is a USB 3 cable should affect as I assume the basic hardware is able to power/relay data from USB 1 and 2 devices and be backwards compatible?

 

This is the cable extender I have tried to use.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B073LRHD3R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Beeblebrox]

 

I guess if push comes to shove I can get a wireless keyboard. 

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Beeblebrox

[MEtalGuy66]

 

Don't forget the Atari F1-F4 keys...

[StickJock]

On 7/10/2021 at 1:00 PM, MEtalGuy66 said:

 

Don't forget the Atari F1-F4 keys...

 

Now that is cool!  (or is it photoshopped?)

 

I had thought about adding capacitive buttons under the plastic for the "missing" F1-F4 keys.