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Leeroy ST

Going back, has the Nintendo 64 aged well?

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With very few exceptions, 3D as a whole doesn't age very well in my opinion, so the N64 fails harder than the Saturn or the PS1 for having fewer 2D games. But I do think it's worth keeping for a few gems. One that I never see mentioned is Ogre Battle 64. The RPG genre didn't age well chiefly because the writing is certainly aimed at kids/teens, but also because they get repetitive quickly. OB64 on the other hand stays fresh the whole time. Its RTS-ish elements keep the game play actually engaging, and the struggle with alignment v. experience means that there are serious tradeoffs that don't really feature in regular JRPG games. I've maintained it as my favorite RPG for 20 years still.

 

Other than that, Mario 64 is the only decent 3D platformer that still is fun to play. The rest feel like collectathon slogs. The racing games can be fun, but the Dreamcast and especially the PS2 surpassed it fairly handily. For those of you who kept up with consoles after the PS2, I'm sure there is little reason to go back to some of those titles, except for Mario Kart 64 (still the best MK game) and perhaps Diddy Kong Racing to a lesser extent. Likewise, Mario Golf and Tennis were fun, but there are better for those of you who got into later systems.

 

GoldenEye and Perfect Dark were eclipsed by the next gen for sure, but they're not bad for nostalgia's sake. Yet it really does feel like nostalgia's sake. I can't even remember the last time I wanted to play those games, let

 

Not much left after that.

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I dont get the Ocarina love. I get that for those that grew up and only had an N64 may be amazed by it outside incentivized reviewers, however for everyone else it's a stiff delayed control action game with a bad camera forcing you to use the combat lock on to adjust, which for some reason people say is revolutionary (huh?), In a mostly empty world. 

 

As for early 3D specifically, I think the Jagwire and 3DO aged best because the compromised hardware for the time really capped what you could do and In hindsight it's clear no machine had secret sauce. The 3DO and Jaguar games, excluding the games trying to go beyond the hardware, are built for the type of machines the PS1/N64 ended up being.  

 

Once you started trying to be too ambitious the games looked worse and the flaws would come out. In fact, Jaguars smooth low texture or texture free shaded 3D are probably the most visually appealing, especially in motion. No blur, wash, stretched, or warped textures either. 

 

12 hours ago, Mikebloke said:

 

Graphically stunted,

; 3D but ugly - barely a progression from the Jaguar looking back at it.

N64 had bigger polys and slightly better texturing but otherwise now that I think about it, it's really not that big of a jump. 

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I like going back to older racing games a lot.  Not so much 8 bit stuff tho.  I might go as far to say my fav racers are the n64, ps1 and 2,.. I love modern racing games too, but I don't like open world ones at all. 

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If you don't like Ocarina, it's small wonder that you'd think the system total garbage because that's one of the few games that the machine had going for it.

 

Personally, I'd think it tends to be a bit overrated because there's far too much that's objectively wrong with it for it to be a viable candidate for the best game of all time, or anything like that. However, it's still one of those games with an uncanny tendency to fire the imagination of those who play it beyond what they're merely seeing on the screen in front of them and that's a rare thing for a game to achieve; I think I've felt that way about maybe five games ever.

 

If it fails to get you under its spell though, yeah, it's just another clunky action adventure.

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29 minutes ago, NeonSpaceBeagle said:

I can't tell if I like wipeout 64 more than the ones on the ps1. I do like the version of hydro thunder better

I would buy a remake of Wipeout 64 with unedited versions of the soundtrack but all the licensing might be hard... though I have no idea where they would find the original version of the best track in the game which is an original piece called Tomorrow Reborn... oh wait I just found it while typing this:

 

 

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

If you don't like Ocarina, it's small wonder that you'd think the system total garbage because that's one of the few games that the machine had going for it.

 

Unpopular opinion:

In addition to ruining Mario for me, N64 also ruined zelda--at least OOT does. I'd comment on the second one but I never intend to play that. Actually, on n64 the two games (mario+oot) aren't far from each other in terms of gameplay.  Pretty much different themed skins and tweaks over a very similar game, which is odd given their varied roots. At least they feel alike to me, probably because I can't get over their basic mechanics. 'oh this is the game we get now' more banjo/conker/dk whatever else.

 

N64 permanently changed my gaming preferences. I bought this darn thing, and was determined to find something I liked on it.

Edited by Reaperman

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31 minutes ago, DragonGrafx-16 said:

I would buy a remake of Wipeout 64 with unedited versions of the soundtrack but all the licensing might be hard... though I have no idea where they would find the original version of the best track in the game which is an original piece called Tomorrow Reborn... oh wait I just found it while typing this:

 

 

Oh yeah definitely the music in the wipeout games were amazing. I wish I was still into games in the mid 90s cuz I would have loved wipeout from the music alone.  Antigravatior is a great similar game. Pacer was so over hyped and while it was okay, something felt kinda off.. amazing genre

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Yeah if N64 is known for things where you must buy the system to really have a great experience.

- Racers(serious, space, karting)

- Wrestling games (still seen today as some of the best 20-25 years later)

- 3D platforming adventure titles

 

Beyond that, kind of a stretch.  I guess you could call it the Goldeneye and Perfect Dark box too, but that's just 1-2 games, the others have many.

 

As some have pointed out PS game known franchises that did get stuff on N64, sometimes was preferred. For Neon--Wipeout, for me Ridge Racer 64.  That game is just stunning, truly an amazing release.  I do enjoy R4 but I far more have interest in still putting hours on the n64 game over it.

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1 hour ago, Matt_B said:

However, it's still one of those games with an uncanny tendency to fire the imagination of those who play it beyond what they're merely seeing on the screen in front of them and that's a rare thing for a game to achieve; I think I've felt that way about maybe five games ever.

The 2D Zeldas did that for me, especially Link to the Past. All I wanted was more of that, and instead I got that clunky adventure game with hiyahs and some annoying fairy. It actually killed the magic of Zelda for me.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Rhomaios said:

The 2D Zeldas did that for me, especially Link to the Past. All I wanted was more of that, and instead I got that clunky adventure game with hiyahs and some annoying fairy. It actually killed the magic of Zelda for me.

you just gave me flashbacks with the 'hiyahs'--that was somehow even worse than a certain plumber's pillsbury-doughboy-like 'Woohoos' or even worse the 'whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa' cannon firing expression.

 

all this n64 talk has me ordering that new hyperkin wireless controller with rumble. I like my wireless brawler, but no rumble.

Edited by Reaperman

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Don't ever BLJ though if you don't like Mario making funny sounds.

 

Me though I love Super Mario 64 and all of it's bugs. It brings me great joy. 

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2 hours ago, Matt_B said:

If you don't like Ocarina, it's small wonder that you'd think the system total garbage because that's one of the few games that the machine had going for it.

 

Personally, I'd think it tends to be a bit overrated because there's far too much that's objectively wrong with it for it to be a viable candidate for the best game of all time, or anything like that. However, it's still one of those games with an uncanny tendency to fire the imagination of those who play it beyond what they're merely seeing on the screen in front of them and that's a rare thing for a game to achieve; I think I've felt that way about maybe five games ever.

 

If it fails to get you under its spell though, yeah, it's just another clunky action adventure.

The issue is playing other (and better) action adventures before and during kills the novelty element that impressed some people enough to say it's above average.

 

Even a mixed game like Redguard that came out the same year, has more going on and more scale. 

 

Then the people saying it's "best game eva" are usually those who believed myths in the past (like first 3D adventure game) and/or grew up with it and the N64, likely from the US. 

 

It's not a bad game, but it has too many problems and poor execution even the 10/10 guys mention, but still give it 10/10(?). There also this falsity about it being revolutionary and influencing games that have no relation to it, especially on the PC side.

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1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

Yeah if N64 is known for things where you must buy the system to really have a great experience.

- Racers(serious, space, karting)

- Wrestling games (still seen today as some of the best 20-25 years later)

- 3D platforming adventure titles

 

Beyond that, kind of a stretch.  I guess you could call it the Goldeneye and Perfect Dark box too, but that's just 1-2 games, the others have many.

 

As some have pointed out PS game known franchises that did get stuff on N64, sometimes was preferred. For Neon--Wipeout, for me Ridge Racer 64.  That game is just stunning, truly an amazing release.  I do enjoy R4 but I far more have interest in still putting hours on the n64 game over it.

Goldeneye saved the console in the US, the N64s only breakout market, and it led the niche interest in Europe, so it will always be a name that's thrown around despite not being that good or innovative imo. But those two games are likely the best FPS games on the N64, wasn't much else close, Turok 2?

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2 hours ago, NeonSpaceBeagle said:

Oh yeah definitely the music in the wipeout games were amazing. I wish I was still into games in the mid 90s cuz I would have loved wipeout from the music alone.  Antigravatior is a great similar game. Pacer was so over hyped and while it was okay, something felt kinda off.. amazing genre

Yeah I love future deathsled racing games... and the N64 had some good ones. I would say Wipeout Fusion is my favorite of the series however. I loved how the singleplayer campaign had ship upgrades. I remember upgrading a ship and breaking 3000kph.

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2 hours ago, Leeroy ST said:

The issue is playing other (and better) action adventures before and during kills the novelty element that impressed some people enough to say it's above average.

 

Even a mixed game like Redguard that came out the same year, has more going on and more scale. 

 

Then the people saying it's "best game eva" are usually those who believed myths in the past (like first 3D adventure game) and/or grew up with it and the N64, likely from the US. 

 

It's not a bad game, but it has too many problems and poor execution even the 10/10 guys mention, but still give it 10/10(?). There also this falsity about it being revolutionary and influencing games that have no relation to it, especially on the PC side.

It's not just a handful of American Nintendo fanboys who like Ocarina though. Rather, it got rave reviews across the board including from the cross-platform community both at the time and retrospectively. I'd think that it speaks volumes for its longevity that the game could be re-made for the 3DS with only some relatively minor quality of life and graphical improvements, yet still be the best reviewed on that platform too. You're free to hold a dissenting opinion of course, but there's clearly more to the game's appeal than a lack of knowledge of the history of the action adventure genre.

 

For my part, it certainly wasn't the first such game I'd played, or even the first 3D one and I appreciate it as an evolutionary effort rather than a revolutionary one. I'd seen bigger game worlds, better graphics and experienced stronger stories too. There just wasn't anything else that brought it all together quite so well in the one game.

 

That said, I'd agree that there's a lot of stuff written about it that's cringeworthy. You're going to get the same with all popular games, but try not to mistake such articles for the reasons why people like them.

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Posted (edited)

I was mostly a SEGA gamer at that time but we bought the N64 the day after we were shown GoldenEye. It hasn't aged well but it was really revolutionary at the time - and I'm not talking about multiplayer here (we only had one controller anyway) but it was the first subtle FPS ever, with a sniper rifle and stealth elements. I also loved Conker (which features one of the very few balanced multiplayer imho) but I remember finding difficult to play the solo mode a few years later... Ocarina of Time was also revolutionary (camera lock, automatic jumps) and was very impressive in terms of atmosphere, but I tried several times to beat it (on the N64 and the GameCube) but only succeeded with the 3DS remake - with the help of a FAQ. That being said, I love Majora's Mask, but I also played it on the 3DS.

 

What I've noticed is when I bought StarFox 64 on the Wii Virtual Console and later 1080° and Wave Race on the Wii U, I found them almost unplayable while I have no problem playing other games on a real Nintendo 64. So even though the analog stick may suck, the controller is so unique that games don't work very well played with a more traditional one.

 

I've discovered wrestling games on the GameCube and loved the games that were the successors to No Mercy but, when I bought No Mercy years later on eBay, I was quite disappointed to be honest. I understand why it was incredible at the time, and the create-a-wrestler mode worked probably better because 3D models were basic, so your creations looked a lot more like the real ones. But I've never liked the counter system with two shoulder buttons that has you guessing what attack the opponent will use (and the blocking of chops has always looked rather silly to me), however at that time I had already discovered the Fire Pro series which is a lot better imho. If you don't know about it, the CAW mode is even better and the counter system is automatic like in a RPG; strong attacks will be blocked if you use them while your opponent is not exhausted enough.

Edited by roots.genoa
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3 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

 

I've discovered wrestling games on the GameCube and loved the games that were the successors to No Mercy but, when I bought No Mercy years later on eBay, I was quite disappointed to be honest. I understand why it was incredible at the time, and the create-a-wrestler mode worked probably better because 3D models were basic, so your creations looked a lot more like the real ones. But I've never liked the counter system with two shoulder buttons that has you guessing what attack the opponent will use (and the blocking of chops has always looked rather silly to me), however at that time I had already discovered the Fire Pro series which is a lot better imho. If you don't know about it, the CAW mode is even better and the counter system is automatic like in a RPG; strong attacks will be blocked if you use them while your opponent is not exhausted enough.

as much as I love the series I think No Mercy, I think Revenge is a great example of when a game is BETTER for having LESS (besides the graphics being too dark IMO, and having a VERY boring roster to me). That's why I didn't asterix it!

 

The counter system, if you are fast enough and put in enough hours, involves no guessing.

 

But then this is simply where it's more what you like and how you like to play it...I hate FP's auto grabs and hard coded counters, and short the incredible multitude of CAW options, which are fun and impressive (but not my cup of tea as I want to wrestle, not spend hours make wrestlers and leagues), I have just never been a fan. Tomato, potato I'd say.

 

(every once in a while I do still fire up FP on Steam....it is fun...)

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I would say it just depends on the game.  Some obviously haven't aged well (Castlevania 64) or were never that great to begin with (Wetrix).  Overall the system really does have a lot of wonderful games that can't just be dismissed:

 

Goemon's Great Adventure

Wave Race 64

Perfect Dark

Beetle Adventure Racing

Paper Mario

Extreme-G

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/14/2021 at 12:09 AM, NeonSpaceBeagle said:

I don't think I've ever even tried a wrestling game other than a nes one..

They all suck except Saturday Night Slam Masters.

Edited by Lord Mushroom

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Aged?  Probably not, the controller is not ideal, and the graphics are really tough on the eyes.  Many of the key titles have been released as upscales on modern systems.  Others were well liked for the multiplayer options, and how many ppl sit around with friends playing MarioKart64 or WCW Revenge? 

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1 hour ago, Lord Mushroom said:

They all suck except Saturday Night Slam Masters.

I remember enjoying WWF Royale Rumble on the Genesis. That was fun, but yeah, anything after that felt a little lame to me.

 

6 hours ago, glazball said:

I would say it just depends on the game.  Some obviously haven't aged well (Castlevania 64) or were never that great to begin with (Wetrix).  Overall the system really does have a lot of wonderful games that can't just be dismissed:

 

Goemon's Great Adventure

Wave Race 64

Perfect Dark

Beetle Adventure Racing

Paper Mario

Extreme-G

 

Extreme-G was perfected with 3 for the PS2. I never felt a need to go back to the N64 versions afterward.

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The stock hardware/games haven't aged well but most of the problems are fixed with no-AA patches/console mods and the Retro Fighters controller.

 

Still disappointing that the library is so light on JRPGs, war sims and adventure games.

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3 hours ago, Black_Tiger said:

The stock hardware/games haven't aged well but most of the problems are fixed with no-AA patches/console mods and the Retro Fighters controller.

 

Still disappointing that the library is so light on JRPGs, war sims and adventure games.

Nintendo really shot themselves in the foot on the JRPG front, as the media was so restrictive.

 

Developers wanted to make games with vast worlds, cut scenes, voiced dialogue and lavish soundtracks that'd span multiple discs on the PlayStation and Saturn. Having to cram all that onto a single cartridge was never going to go down too well with them.

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Ocarina of Time is NOT a joke. That is arguably one of the greatest games of all time.

 

I prefer Saturn and PS1 but I will give credit to 64 for having a few great games.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Rhomaios said:

Extreme-G was perfected with 3 for the PS2. I never felt a need to go back to the N64 versions afterward.

The first game has the best music though...

Edited by DragonGrafx-16
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