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Hard disk adapted game compilations new policy


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This are hard times, when prices of elementary things go up constantly, despite all talk about that it's getting better. Sadly, things described in 1984 are now much more present than ever.

So, this is not free anymore, thousands of hours of work were invested in more than 1400 game adaptations. Lot of testing, screenshots, YT videos, plenty of communication with users, most of it via e-mail - what resulted in fixing some errors, doing some titles by request, explaining ways of usage, etc.

 

3 compilations are ready for DL .

1. Special for improved TOS with game menu at start. 1400 games + 4 latest releases as bonus. Size is exactly 1 GB, so can work even with MSTE internal adapter.  ZIP size is about 700 MB.  Only with iTOS can place 1400 games in 1 GB, and needed to use 8 partitions for best space usage efficiency. 

2. Special for machines with TOS 1.00 and 1.02 - they have some extra limitations in compare to later TOS versions.  And it will work with later TOS versions too. About 1430 games in 2 GB space. ZIP is about 850 MB .

3. For usual TOS versions, so at 1.04 ..  Little easier usage as compilation above. Same sizes, games .

About games in compilations: I can say that pretty big % of quality Atari ST(E) games in included, surely over 90% . In most cases there are some cheat options (unlimited lives mostly, sometimes selectable start level ..) and save state option.

 

Price is 10 Euros for 1 compilation. More details, how to pay - via e-mail ,  petari@8bitchip.info 

That way is best for things like this, I will not write account details on public places, and there will be for sure diverse questions needing answers, help.

 

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Really ? 'Selling' games ? There are many freeware ones included. The service is for what people pay. Should I add note like: " ... must own original to have right to play this 'conversions/patches' "- like it stays at WHDload ? There is no copyright for those old games - it is abandonware.

Internet is full with sites holding image files (ROMs as some say) of 'those game' - for instance Atari Legend site. You are just a hypocrite .

Ah, and what about your buddy at AL Marcer ? He sold DVDs with plenty of games. And added even my work, without asking my permission.

I made over 1400 games to be usable in much easier, reliable way, with modern storage, with some added extras, over 13 years. And it is not over, while some others abandoned it. It's just that life is now harder than was 13 years ago. Sorry that I need to eat and living somewhere ...

 

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There is undeniably a lot of work spent on making these conversions, but putting them beyond a strict paywall just simply does not sit well with me. I don't know any other similar effort which would require payment: all the assorted No-Intros, TOSECS, MAME, Gamebases, exoDOS, etc, etc have always been free - that's just how it is in general retro community (even though these also required huge amount of work to put together).

 

I wouldn't mind donating, if it was an option, but in this case I'll pass and just stick to floppy images.

 

(I'd avoid using arguments such as "it's abandonware" or "I need to eat", it's best just not to say anything.)

 

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Just for clarification, will this payment allow one unlimited access to future conversions? If so, how will you provide access to those people who have paid for that compilation?

Edited by Justin Payne
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10 hours ago, Fivetwenty said:

Does compilation made for original tos 1.04 work machine with improved tos and vice versa if one happen to have both machines?. Amazing work what You have been doing with tos and HD adaptations thumbs up

Compilation for original TOS 1.04 (and 1.62, 2.06, 3.06 ...) will work with improved TOS (and even compil. for 1.00-1.02, but you don't need it) , but opposite not, because 'improved' is not only some advert phrase in my case, it is really better - while remains compatible with regular TOS versions, it is real (and still used with modern computers, OS-es) FAT16 compatible. There are details on my site about it, and why DRI/Atari made not real FAT16, even when it was with Intel byte order (low Endian).

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10 hours ago, youxia said:

There is undeniably a lot of work spent on making these conversions, but putting them beyond a strict paywall just simply does not sit well with me. I don't know any other similar effort which would require payment: all the assorted No-Intros, TOSECS, MAME, Gamebases, exoDOS, etc, etc have always been free - that's just how it is in general retro community (even though these also required huge amount of work to put together).

 

I wouldn't mind donating, if it was an option, but in this case I'll pass and just stick to floppy images.

 

(I'd avoid using arguments such as "it's abandonware" or "I need to eat", it's best just not to say anything.)

 

Of course you are free to express your opinion.  And no, this is not paywall. This is simple trade. Customer gives me money, I give him results of long term work. Comparing my 1400++ game adaptatations done in (as said) some 13 years with some TOSEC, MAME ... is not fair. All what they did is was to put other people's work in some RAR archive and online, or just copied to other host. And usually very inefficient. For instance you will see in TOSEC same origin floppy image file often in 2-3 versions, where difference is only in bootsector (and that was result of some 'geniuses' adding there some completely unnecessary virus checks (while forgot that it may ruin autoboot) ) . But why not ? It sounds so good that there are some 10000 images - better than 4300. While every advanced Atari user knows that all those a, b variants are images of same original one. And not only those, lot of menu disks, cracks are just copies of other crew's one - sometime credited, sometimes not. So, even less than 4300, considering that.

 

Yes,  I know how much time it needs to put compilation of some 1000++ games together. Worked about whole month only on compilation for iTOS .

 

I don't need your donation, and this is not donation. This is trade, as is told.

And I have to right to say here what I want, and it is surely abandonware. Not me who invented that term and used first. And I don't need to eat anymore - today, just did my dinner ?

 

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10 hours ago, masteries said:

I can agree, we are paying for the HD and Gamex adaptations  :)

 

But we need these games adapted for HD too:  HammerFist  ,  NavyMoves  , Pipemania

Actually I worked on all 3. Pipe Mania is on site. In compils. Hammerfist and Navy Moves are done about 60-80% but I abandoned them from "selfish reasons"- there were more important things to deal with in life.

Thanx for reminding, I will try to finish NavyMania in next weeks ?

 

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I don't have any problem with a huge game compilation, adapted for many, many different setups,

being charged for. After all, it's not the games themselves that are being charged for, but the work

to adapt them.

 

The price is fair, IMHO.

 

Peter offers a service that I very much appreciate. I couldn't adapt those games. How many people

in this message thread could? If so, why haven't you done so already?  :)

 

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10 hours ago, Justin Payne said:

Just for clarification, will this payment allow one unlimited access to future conversions? If so, how will you provide access to those people who have paid for that compilation?

This is good question.  But must say that there will be not many new adaptations (conversion is really not proper word here, nothing is converted, game for Atari ST is still for it, just storage media is different).  Yes, who paid once, will get access for newer compilation. Just need to e-mail me.

However, I will not make new compilations often. And not just because some 40 new games added. 

Actually, as I see things now, most likely there will be only 1 new compilation batch after this. Probably after some 2-3 years. Really not many quality games left.

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6 minutes ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

Comparing my 1400++ game adaptatations done in (as said) some 13 years with some TOSEC, MAME ... is not fair. All what they did is was to put other people's work in some RAR archive and online, or just copied to other host. And usually very inefficient.

Smh...well, like I said, sometimes it's just better not to say anything. It's your decision, but I do have a feeling that if you have actually made these collections a donation-ware, dropped the patronising attitude, and stopped using arguments as clueless as the one quoted, you would actually be better off financially.

 

Anyway, as we say in my neck of the woods: "not my circus, not my monkeys", so I'll leave you to it.

3 minutes ago, DarkLord said:

Peter offers a service that I very much appreciate. I couldn't adapt those games. How many people

in this message thread could? If so, why haven't you done so already? 

It's the same with all the other similar projects based on utilising the so-called "abandonware". Why aren't their authors charging for it? (a rhetorical question).

 

 

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I can understand why some people might not agree with this certainly, especially since it was previously all available for free, but I also understand Peter's point of view. He's put in massive amounts of time and effort into this and, honestly, the amount he's asking for is a pittance. He certainly deserves a little return for his investment in time and effort.

 

Thank you @ParanoidLittleMan!

 

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1 minute ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

This is good question.  But must say that there will be not many new adaptations (conversion is really not proper word here, nothing is converted, game for Atari ST is still for it, just storage media is different).  Yes, who paid once, will get access for newer compilation. Just need to e-mail me.

However, I will not make new compilations often. And not just because some 40 new games added. 

Actually, as I see things now, most likely there will be only 1 new compilation batch after this. Probably after some 2-3 years. Really not many quality games left.

Well, it seems you're grouping your compilations based on TOS versions so what I'm expecting is that if you modify a new piece of software to work off of the hard drive (AKA: Adaptation), you would add it to the appropriate compilation(s) and, possibly, notify purchasers of those compellations that updates have been made so they can download the latest version. I'm not expecting you to create new compilations based on the TOS version since I'm sure those three are probably all that are needed. 

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21 minutes ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

Actually I worked on all 3. Pipe Mania is on site. In compils. Hammerfist and Navy Moves are done about 60-80% but I abandoned them from "selfish reasons"- there were more important things to deal with in life.

Thanx for reminding, I will try to finish NavyMania in next weeks ?

 

 

Good, good,

 

Also, Batman the movie; the version you have on the adapted list, is the one with the severe bug at cathedral level (you respawn outside the map level).

This problem is fixed on a later revision of the game, probably game code is the same (except for the code that relocates the player correctly at last level) and adaptation can be straightforward.

 

I will pay for a compilation with all HD adapted games, plus these HD adapt in progress games.

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, darwinmac said:

Does the new payment policy only apply to compilations? Will individual games still be added to your webpage? Will the existing games be removed from your webpage to support paying for the compilations?

 

Bob C

At moment I'm in dilemma. I updated some  older versions with newer systems - mostly to have state save option, to take less disk space.

One of ideas was to make some minimal charge - like 1-2 Eur for access to individual DL pages (like for 1 day). But that's hard to solve, and needs some micro-payment service - which will take their %, plus payment can cost much more. Funny thing is that those complaining about "selling old games" don't see in what World we living now. Some banks charge 20-30 $ for transfer of 15 Euros to Europe from USA. That's too much even if sending it in envelope, not for electronic transfer.

In any case, I will reorganize some things, and remove multiple versions of same game in most cases, so leaving only latest on site.

And as said, there will be no many new games, because I don't see many quality ones left. Some updates, fixes are what is more worth of time, that's my opinion, and it depends from user feedback too, plus from how much free time I will have. And what a shock - that depends from financial situation too .

 

 

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Need to add some more details:

 

Not only game compilation(s), but hard disk, or now rather Flash card image files. With autoboot hard disk driver.

And that driver is different in 3 versions. iTOS has special driver for iTOS real FAT16, + special fix for loading shared libraries.

Usual TOS v. has regular ICD extended ACSI driver, what is good for all adapters using it - so UltraSatan, ACSI2STM(SD), ICD pro adapters ..

V. for TOS 1.00-1.02 has driver optimized for them + Folder 100 integrated.

And that will be not enough. As it was earlier, with first compilation (about 100 games) IDE driver is needed too. For people with such adapters.

That will be just short file, about 20 KB, what user need to write to begin of CF card or disk, after writing there first whole image. With that autoboot driver will be replaced with IDE one (instead ACSI). And there are other adapters which might need special driver.

Idea of universal driver, with support for diverse adapters will not happen - it needs more RAM, while older adaptations like low RAM free.

 

I needed to rewrite multiple library, TOS in RAM files for iTOS, and pure FAT16 driver used with it's compilation - not because (said already) it can not work with regular TOS/DOS driver,  but because that driver for iTOS uses about 10x less RAM than TOS/DOS drivers of me for regular TOS versions - other ones might use even way more (Hddriver, when there is lot of RAM).  It looks like 2.5- 3 KB totally allocated by iTOS driver, versus some 38-45 KB for regular TOS driver (not VF versions).

So, there is much more in this image files than only games, and comparing them with some TOSEC or  whatever bunch of diverse floppy images is really sign of serious shallowness and disrespect. But honestly, I would be surprised if it did not happen here.

 

To end, actually there is charging by some, who deal with old games, mostly floppy based originals.

WHDLoad for Amiga - they charge for library file(s) - and that looks like fair thing - but it is worthless without all those old games. The effect is same - people will use copies of old games without formal right for it. Regardless of what stays there about owning original (what is now pretty much useless considering age and condition of those floppies from 1986-1994) .

Even SCP is selling because of illegal copying of old floppies. Yes, formally it is illegal, unless copyright  owner declared that it is free now (what happened with most of games for Sinclair Spectrum) . How coming with copyright argument is silly now shows that there was faulty disk replacement service for customers. That works not over 2-3 decades. So, SCP, Kryoflux are needed for producing faithful copy or copy protected original - or rather that person who experienced that his original floppy works not anymore needs to do illegal thing - to use image(s) available online, posted illegally.  This was just another example to show how absurd  is to pull out whole old SW (abandonware) argument.

No, it is in reality over, for some 13-15 years. I remember how it was around 2005 - sites with floppy images were almost regularly closed. Couple years later - and nobody closes them, and we have plenty of them, with tens of thousands of images. And what a shock, some make money from all that, using allmighty online adverts.

 

 

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14 hours ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

Really ? 'Selling' games ? There are many freeware ones included. The service is for what people pay. Should I add note like: " ... must own original to have right to play this 'conversions/paches' "- like it stays at WHDload ? There is no copyright for tose old games - it is abandonware.

Internet is full with sites holding image files (ROMs as some say) of 'those game' - for instance Atari Legend site. You are just a hypocrite .

Ah, and what about your buddy at AL Marcer ? He sold DVDs with plenty of games. And added even my work, without asking my permission.

I made over 1400 games to be usable in much easier, reliable way, with modern storage, with some added extras, over 13 years. And it is not over, while some others abandoned it. It's just that life is now harder than was 13 years ago. Sorry that I need to eat and living somewhere ...

 

Newsflash: selling pirated software is illegal, no matter how many hours you spent making your compilations. And selling freeware games? That's not only illegal, it's immoral.

 

And you should check the definitions of copyright and abandonware because you obviously don't have a clue.

 

PS: lots of menu disks are available at AL thanks to countless hours spent by people gathering, dumping the disks and fixing the faulty ones, all free of charge of course! Thanks for the advertising!

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This is ridiculous, how some people doing this strictly on personal base. Of course AL member did not react on my note about Marcer's selling of games on DVDs, or his using of other people work without permission. No, asking 10 Euros for making available and playable 1400 old games on modern storage is something most immoral thing on this planet .

And to add that Atariforce aka cb is D-Bug fan (hey, are they those who sold pirated games on floppies before Internet time, and name of crew was automation ? ) .  Total clear case of double standards, personal bias.  Please, write here more, embarass self more with repeating your idiotic comments.

Interesting that now we have new books about whole piracy scene, mostly years when Atari ST, Amiga were well sold. Are pirates presented as some heroes in them ? I guess yes, in big part. And of course, as it is always, they think that did useful thing for community.

Well, the truth is always somewhere between - saying that every pirate copy means 1 sale of SW less is overstatement - surely those who bought pirate copy did it because: was no other way (like Eastern Eu. countries), could not afford to buy original for like 100 DEM (I paid Microprose F1 GP 120 DEM in 1992, for instance) . 

 

My comment about AL advert posted above: yes, all those who did something for AL are super self sacrificing heroes (like today medical workers fighting against covid 'to the last gasp' - and we know the result now - there will be more waves, more vaccinations, more money earned by industry ...) . They worked countless hours, while someone who made self more games than all them together wants only money for games which are made by others ?  

Piracy is piracy even if they don't ask money for it. The point is not so much in earning money with it, but in harming legal sales of SW . Or movies, music etc ..

I apologize to all SW, game authors for doing this - keeping their old games still alive. For making corrections, improvements in games (what is btw. usually forbidden, there are notes in some cases, like 'only unmodified files' ) . Well, there were actually couple cases that authors said thank you to me for it.

 

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8 hours ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

And to add that Atariforce aka cb is D-Bug fan (hey, are they those who sold pirated games on floppies before Internet time, and name of crew was automation ? )

Incorrect, but please, continue your ignorant, hate filled rants about D-Bug and Automation. Always worth a chuckle.

 

Quote

I made over 1400 games to be usable in much easier, reliable way, with modern storage, with some added extras, over 13 years. 

Youngsters today....
 

Quote

I couldn't adapt those games. How many people in this message thread could? If so, why haven't you done so already?

Ahem.. they're free to download, and always will be. You're welcome.

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Reminded about how it was with PD, Freeware SW distribution in later 80-es, early 90-es:

In German computer magazines there was plenty of adverts from firms who distributed PD, freeware SW on floppies, and shipped them to customers. It was of course charged - disk costs, shipping, and for they work. Other way was BBS, via phone lines and modems, so could DL diverse SW to computers.  And that was not free, usually needed to pay for time spent connected. Or by traffic, I guess. I DL-ed for instance TOS 2.06 from BBS in late 1992, after some 'nice' man (in fact just a pirate with EPROM programmer) asked some 160 DEM for it from me (in 2 EPROMs, which costed then max some 30 DEM).

So, there was charge for freeware, copyrighted SW pirate cracks (some BBS-es had them - and it was then still in official sales).  Now, who invested more time and knowledge in it - some, who just copied floppies, files, put images, archive files (usually ZIP) on BBS, or someone who made lot of corrections in games that they work from modern storage media, added corrected TOS in RAM versions, and other things ?

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Selling commercial games from the 80's / 90's, really? I don't even know where to begin...

I suppose demoscene people should start selling their demos too because they spent countless hours on them. People who maintain Atariage / Atarimania / Atarilegend should also ask for a salary because hey, they spend time on it.

Well, at least what they would sell would be entirely their work, unlike what you are doing.

Actually, you just gave me an idea: I'll modify Gwem's Maxymizer a little bit and start selling it, not for much mind you.

Edited by Keops
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