New competition (?) The Steam Deck

[leech]

With the pricing of the Steam Deck;

399 for one with 64gb eMMC

529 for one with 256gb nVME SSD

649 for one with 512gb nVME SSD.

 

Of course the processor/APU is a bit stronger than the VCS and it is portable, but is basically an open platform as well (install whatever OS you want, but comes with SteamOS 3.0 (Arch based.)

 

So I guess price wise, we can see sort of what kind of deal Valve can get with AMD vs Atari S.A.

[justclaws]

6 hours ago, leech said:

With the pricing of the Steam Deck;

399 for one with 64gb eMMC

529 for one with 256gb nVME SSD

649 for one with 512gb nVME SSD.

 

Of course the processor/APU is a bit stronger than the VCS and it is portable, but is basically an open platform as well (install whatever OS you want, but comes with SteamOS 3.0 (Arch based.)

 

So I guess price wise, we can see sort of what kind of deal Valve can get with AMD vs Atari S.A.

Yes, the "custom APU" seems to be very close to the v1605b which is pin compatible with the VCS r1606g,
as that is also 4-core with 4 threads, maximum 32GB DDR4 RAM, Vega 7 graphics, which is close to this.
I've seen people swap BGA chips, so perhaps somebody will swap the v1605b into a VCS before Atari can.

Apparently, from what I've read so far, "idiots will buy it", but it's a "STEAMing pile". Yeah, of course.

To me, being an idiot (as I've been told here, for buying a VCS), I think it sounds very interesting though,
and it's got 16GB RAM. By year-end, perhaps the chip shortage will ease allowing price cuts Valve project.
Intellivision cannot even get 3.2 inch 320x240 pixel screens, apparently, so Valve clearly have connections!

For sure, Valve are in a better position to take a loss on the system, as most people will buy more Steam
games to play on it, and very few will want to buy it just to use a portable mini-PC, but I think as that goes,
no keyboard aside, it's interesting too. No doubt people will say it's only worth $100, and they'll pick it up
from a clearance bin in 6 months for $50 though. Those clearance bins in the USA are so amazing to me. ?

As a Switch competitor, I also find it a compelling offer. I don't have a Switch either, but the Switch has
the motion controls, and the great Nintendo software, so I don't think it's quite so obvious a rival either.

The fact that this Steam Deck is open source too, may also help bring more games to the Linux platform,
even if the new version of SteamOS will rely heavily on Proton libraries to support Windows games as well.

Amazingly, IGN reviewer spent several days at the Steam offices to learn about the Steam Deck. The IGN
reviewer who reviewed the Atari VCS didn't ask Atari, he borrowed one from a fan, for an hour I was told.
 

 

[justclaws]

I'm not sure if the name will go unmodified, before it ships.
The Elgato "Stream Deck" will certainly get a lot of unexpected search hits too.


 

[CPUWIZ]

In case anyone cares about the link, just made the rounds at work.

 

http://www.steamdeck.com/en/

[+x=usr(1536)]

Every review of the Steam Deck going to focus on the resemblance it has to the Switch and that the Switch is $100 cheaper.

 

It's going to be interesting to see how this shakes out - people are already referring to it as the 'Switch Pro'

[Matt_B]

The question of what else you can get in the way of a mini PC for $400 appears to now have a definitive answer.

From my experience with the GPD Win, it's unlikely to compete with the Switch that well though. At least not unless you're the sort of person who likes to spend half an hour with a keyboard plugged into your Switch optimizing the config files before you play a new game. ?

 

The ability to play almost any PC game on the go - at least barring the ones that really need a keyboard, are borked under Proton, have text that's unreadable on a 7" display or are just too power hungry to get playable, so maybe 50% of your existing Steam library if you're lucky - is going to be tempting and the entry level model is priced a fair bit below the Aya Neo and GPD Win. The gap narrows a fair bit once you're looking at comparably sized SSDs though, and the only model that makes sense if you're wanting to play AAA games on it is really the 512GB one. Even so, it seems pretty good value. Even if Valve are hoping to sell millions of them, I'd think that they're probably taking a loss on it, at least on the entry level model.

 

On the CPU front, they've said it's a Zen 2 which points to the 4800U or maybe the 5700U, which are both more powerful and efficient than the V1605B which is Zen 1. I'm sure the latter would be a big step up if someone could bodge it into a VCS though.

 

All said and done, developers now have a big incentive to make their games playable on Linux, without the need for a keyboard and working nicely on a mobile CPU. Let's see how many of them take that up.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Matt_B

[leech]

1 hour ago, CPUWIZ said:

In case anyone cares about the link, just made the rounds at work.

 

http://www.steamdeck.com/en/

Ha, thanks, I forgot to plop the link in. 

 

37 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

The question of what else you can get in the way of a mini PC for $400 appears to now have a definitive answer.

From my experience with the GPD Win, it's unlikely to compete with the Switch that well though. At least not unless you're the sort of person who likes to spend half an hour with a keyboard plugged into your Switch optimizing the config files before you play a new game. ?

 

The ability to play almost any PC game on the go - at least barring the ones that really need a keyboard, are borked under Proton, have text that's unreadable on a 7" display or are just too power hungry to get playable, so maybe 50% of your existing Steam library if you're lucky - is going to be tempting and the entry level model is priced a fair bit below the Aya Neo and GPD Win. The gap narrows a fair bit once you're looking at comparably sized SSDs though, and the only model that makes sense if you're wanting to play AAA games on it is really the 512GB one. Even so, it seems pretty good value. Even if Valve are hoping to sell millions of them, I'd think that they're probably taking a loss on it, at least on the entry level model.

 

On the CPU front, they've said it's a Zen 2 which points to the 4800U or maybe the 5700U, which are both more powerful and efficient than the V1605B which is Zen 1. I'm sure the latter would be a big step up if someone could bodge it into a VCS though.

 

All said and done, developers now have a big incentive to make their games playable on Linux, without the need for a keyboard and working nicely on a mobile CPU. Let's see how many of them take that up.

I have a GPD Win 2, and have to say Win10 is not great on a tiny screen at all...  Also the fans on that thing are way too loud for me to use it very often. 

 

At 1280x800 (yay for 16:10), it's decent for 7" and it can use Docks, plus going to have a Dock coming out specific to it.  So you can try to play it at higher resolutions hooked up to a keyboard/mouse/monitor.  Sounds like a good way to carry it to work (assuming you're going into the office these days...) and connect up to your monitor at work for some quick  gaming during a break (or while watching your config management run...).  I'll be ordering one, as I already have a massive Steam library, and it makes sense to be able to carry things on the go.

 

Since a huge amount of my steam library are indie games from Humble bundle and have Linux native versions, it's probably closer to 80% of my games would be playable on it.  Usually the piggier games that wouldn't run on this anyhow, are the ones that are not working under Proton, but Proton itself is amazing at how good it's compatibility is.  Pretty sure you can play games like The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077 out of the box with it these days.

[leech]

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Every review of the Steam Deck going to focus on the resemblance it has to the Switch and that the Switch is $100 cheaper.

 

It's going to be interesting to see how this shakes out - people are already referring to it as the 'Switch Pro'

Ha, so I have like... ~20 games for the Switch... I have ~3000 for Steam... let's say even 1k of that isn't playable on the Steam Deck.  That's still 100 times more games I have for it... As Atari used to say, 'Do the Math'

[+x=usr(1536)]

13 minutes ago, leech said:

Ha, so I have like... ~20 games for the Switch... I have ~3000 for Steam... let's say even 1k of that isn't playable on the Steam Deck.  That's still 100 times more games I have for it... As Atari used to say, 'Do the Math'

Hah

 

Joking aside, though, just the form factor of the machine is going to be enough to keep the Switch comparisons going perpetually.  Having said that, though, it's now clear why Valve - for at least one reason - didn't port Steam to the Switch.  Sure, you can jailbreak your Switch and run Android on it to get it, but...  Ehhh.  I don't know how many Switch users are seriously interested in doing that.  Likely a very small percentage.

 

In any event, the one big advantage the Steam Deck has going into the marketplace is, as you alluded to, a strong software library.  Depending on what can and cannot run usably within its form factor, it probably has a decent shot at being a supplemental device to other consoles, etc.

 

Not intending to pick one up, so ultimately I have no horse in this race.  But it's going to be interesting to see how it develops, particularly now that Nintendo has started allowing titles that appeal to people over the age of 14 on their hardware.

[Matt_B]

38 minutes ago, leech said:

I have a GPD Win 2, and have to say Win10 is not great on a tiny screen at all...  Also the fans on that thing are way too loud for me to use it very often. 

 

At 1280x800 (yay for 16:10), it's decent for 7" and it can use Docks, plus going to have a Dock coming out specific to it.  So you can try to play it at higher resolutions hooked up to a keyboard/mouse/monitor.  Sounds like a good way to carry it to work (assuming you're going into the office these days...) and connect up to your monitor at work for some quick  gaming during a break (or while watching your config management run...).  I'll be ordering one, as I already have a massive Steam library, and it makes sense to be able to carry things on the go.

 

Since a huge amount of my steam library are indie games from Humble bundle and have Linux native versions, it's probably closer to 80% of my games would be playable on it.  Usually the piggier games that wouldn't run on this anyhow, are the ones that are not working under Proton, but Proton itself is amazing at how good it's compatibility is.  Pretty sure you can play games like The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077 out of the box with it these days.

Yeah, the screen size is definitely a compromise. The Win 2 is big enough to run most games, bar the aforementioned ones with unreadable text. You've just got to plug it into a monitor when you want do anything beyond the most basic level of configuration. It works quite well with Linux too, unlike the original Win, but you'd have the same issues with screen size. The Steam Deck has a slightly bigger screen, but not really big enough to be hitting the terminal window on a regular basis. Plus you'll need an external keyboard. Hopefully Valve will at least make some attempt to push games to it with appropriate settings, although they didn't bother to do any of that for the Steam Machines.

 

So far as fan noise goes, I doubt it will be any better. It's got a much more powerful APU at 25W versus the 7W of the Win 2, and it's not like there's much room for a bigger fan. Unless Valve have managed to change the laws of physics you'll probably have to live with that.

 

For what it's worth, my Steam library is also mostly indie games from Humble, but if I check the Linux and Full Controller Support boxes it goes down to just 18%, and I'm sure a few of those wouldn't work for other reasons. When saying 50% I'm already making allowances for the extra games I could get working via Proton, re-mapping of keyboard controls to buttons, and so on. The GPD devices at least have keyboards, albeit rather basic ones, that'll save you a lot of that extra legwork.

 

[leech]

11 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Hah

 

Joking aside, though, just the form factor of the machine is going to be enough to keep the Switch comparisons going perpetually.  Having said that, though, it's now clear why Valve - for at least one reason - didn't port Steam to the Switch.  Sure, you can jailbreak your Switch and run Android on it to get it, but...  Ehhh.  I don't know how many Switch users are seriously interested in doing that.  Likely a very small percentage.

 

In any event, the one big advantage the Steam Deck has going into the marketplace is, as you alluded to, a strong software library.  Depending on what can and cannot run usably within its form factor, it probably has a decent shot at being a supplemental device to other consoles, etc.

 

Not intending to pick one up, so ultimately I have no horse in this race.  But it's going to be interesting to see how it develops, particularly now that Nintendo has started allowing titles that appeal to people over the age of 14 on their hardware.

Well, that and ARM vs x86_64... kind of pointless to port Steam to ARM unless they could tap into Android's game library, as Steam has zero ARM native stuff, and it isn't like the Switch is beefy enough to handle that emulation hit.  Pretty sure my Note 10+ has more power under the hood, as the Switch is a 4 year old SoC.

 

7 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

Yeah, the screen size is definitely a compromise. The Win 2 is big enough to run most games, bar the aforementioned ones with unreadable text. You've just got to plug it into a monitor when you want do anything beyond the most basic level of configuration. It works quite well with Linux too, unlike the original Win, but you'd have the same issues with screen size. The Steam Deck has a slightly bigger screen, but not really big enough to be hitting the terminal window on a regular basis. Plus you'll need an external keyboard. Hopefully Valve will at least make some attempt to push games to it with appropriate settings, although they didn't bother to do any of that for the Steam Machines.

 

So far as fan noise goes, I doubt it will be any better. It's got a much more powerful APU at 25W versus the 7W of the Win 2, and it's not like there's much room for a bigger fan. Unless Valve have managed to change the laws of physics you'll probably have to live with that.

 

For what it's worth, my Steam library is also mostly indie games from Humble, but if I check the Linux and Full Controller Support boxes it goes down to just 18%, and I'm sure a few of those wouldn't work for other reasons. When saying 50% I'm already making allowances for the extra games I could get working via Proton, re-mapping of keyboard controls to buttons, and so on. The GPD devices at least have keyboards, albeit rather basic ones, that'll save you a lot of that extra legwork.

 

I think work on Full Controller Support listings drastically needs to be fixed on Steam.  They leave it up to the developers to pick, it seems, and not all of them bother to fix it.  There also are too many where a menu pops up that isn't controllable via game pad (though that'd be easy with a touch screen or the track pads).  They should probably include something like the GPD Wins do, a switch to make things work as a mouse vs joystick.  That'd solve a huge amount of problems as well. 

 

I'm always happy when I see the few games that actually support the Steam Input API, as then it doesn't matter what controller you use, it'll show the appropriate buttons in the game.  Most developers are too lazy and just use the icons / button mapping of the Xbox 360 controller... If this thing is popular enough, maybe that can finally change for PC gaming.

 

From what I've seen so far of pictures of the Steam Deck, it has the same design as the Switch, and I never really hear the fans on that when in portable mode, though it has gotten pretty warm with some games.  Wonder if they've tried to figure out a way to make games have a limit on preferences or something to try to solve some games taxing the hardware just that much too hard to cause it to heat up and burn your hands....

 

Ha, what would be amazing is the opposite of DLSS... instead of faking that the resolution is much higher than it actually is, just auto-downscale the graphics if the system is too taxed.  Like how Netflix will degrade quality on slow connections.

 

The reason the Switch is successful and works as it does, is because Nintendo doesn't really make graphically intensive games.  They were wise and gave up on that race to the Sega house...  But just like how they went to nvidia to make their hardware, Valve went to AMD to make theirs.  Kind of seems like AMD is just trying to say 'nyah nyah nyah, we not only have all the console space now, but we're going to be taking over the portable consoles too!'

[SegaSnatcher]

This is going to be one amazing piece of tech for emulation.  $399 is a pretty good price point considering the tech they crammed into this handheld.  

[roots.genoa]

To me what's important is not that it costs $100 more than the Switch, but that it's almost twice as heavy. ? It doesn't look very comfortable either, but the Switch is not perfect in that regard anyway, so maybe we could get used to that B button slightly sinking on the side...

[+x=usr(1536)]

9 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

To me what's important is not that it costs $100 more than the Switch, but that it's almost twice as heavy. ?

Could be an advantage in certain situations, though.  Hand-to-hand combat, driving nails, making sure boats don't drift off into the middle of the ocean, etc.

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

Well, there was valves steam controller and the PCs they tried to sell with steamOS they marketed as steam machines and we know how all that turned out in the end. However, considering there has been several attempts now at a real handheld PC from Kickstarter‘s to actual small import companies all trying to come out with that perfect PC handheld at least with this attempt it’s done by a reputable big company so you can have at least the research and backing from someone who has at least some experience. And less chance that quality will vary from one unit to another. Also, I think I heard you can actually pretty much install anything you want on it? Obviously, it will be geared towards steamOS but it will be interesting to see what other people do with it I’m thinking at the very least even the lowest version of this device will make for one hell of a portable emulation Handheld.

 

?

 

[Matt_B]

Yuzu is still very rough and requires a monumentally powerful PC to run most of the games that it can run at full speed, so good luck with that.

 

That said, a lot of the best Switch games are ports of Wii U ones and the Cemu emulator should run quite nicely on it. You might even get Breath of the Wild up to 60fps on it, although it's a bit glitchy like that.

[roots.genoa]

The rumored Switch Pro was supposed to display 4K in docked mode, but personally I would have preferred a 1080p touch screen, so the Steam Deck is not a Switch Pro for me either.

[youxia]

5 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said:

This is going to be one amazing piece of tech for emulation.  $399 is a pretty good price point considering the tech they crammed into this handheld.  

This is the only thing that interests me really (I don't care about Steam), and this device looks well built and has reasonably decent specs. But - it's too frigging big. For me "portable" means something about PSP/GPD XD/DS Lite size, if I have to tote or hold anything bigger then I won't bother (so yeah, no Switch for me either).

 

The whole "Switch Pro" angle sounds a bit forced, in a typical internet hot take kind of way.  First of all they have completely different core games, and Yuzu...haha, yeah, good luck with that.

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by youxia

[zzip]

11 hours ago, leech said:

With the pricing of the Steam Deck;

399 for one with 64gb eMMC

529 for one with 256gb nVME SSD

649 for one with 512gb nVME SSD.

Wait... so they are charging $130 for a 256gb SSD and $250 for a 512gb one?      That's expensive!   You can get 1Tb and 2Tb for that price.   Is the drive user-upgradable, or is this their sneaky way of making money?

[leech]

2 minutes ago, zzip said:

Wait... so they are charging $130 for a 256gb SSD and $250 for a 512gb one?      That's expensive!   You can get 1Tb and 2Tb for that price.   Is the drive user-upgradable, or is this their sneaky way of making money?

Yes.  Ha.  There was some steam bundle with tge higher priced ones, and the highest price one has better screen protection or something. 

The price of the nVME SSDs seem to vary pretty widely depending on brand, but not quite THAT widely.  And it doesn't sound like they are making them user upgradable, which is sad.  So there are some advangages to the VCS, one of which is you can take it up to 32gb of ram.  Not that much needs more than 8 yet... well, maybe if you run Windows...

[leech]

1 hour ago, youxia said:

First of all they have completely different core games, and Yuzu...haha, yeah, good luck with that.

I honestly have a Switch, and with the exception of Nintendo's exlusive games (which I have only ever liked Donkey Kong and Mario Bros.) All of the games are pretty much Linux Native already.  So no need to bother with emulation.  Hell, I have bought some games on the Switch that I already have on Steam so that I could play them on the go.

[zzip]

It's a tempting device to be sure...    but on the other hand, I don't really like playing the Switch in mobile mode, and this seems even bigger?

 

Also with this chip shortage, will this really be coming out this year?

[SegaSnatcher]

Just now, zzip said:

It's a tempting device to be sure...    but on the other hand, I don't really like playing the Switch in mobile mode, and this seems even bigger?

 

Also with this chip shortage, will this really be coming out this year?

Yes, they said December 2021.    Imagine playing some Dreamcast on this thing in portable mode, I am excite lol. 

[zzip]

19 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

Yes, they said December 2021

I know they said that, but will they be able to meet it?   Or will it be one of those things where it's technically released but in low quantities so you won't be able to find one?

[SegaSnatcher]

3 minutes ago, zzip said:

I know they said that, but will they be able to meet it?   Or will it be one of those things where it's technically released but in low quantities so you won't be able to find one?

Considering its Valve who has a crap ton of resources, yes.   I'm interested to see what demand will be like.