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Are you getting an Amico?

Are you getting an Amico? Poll  

127 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you getting an Amico?

    • Yes, For Sure, Already Pre-ordered and can't wait
      44
    • No, Never, Not a chance ever, Nothing could make me ever want an Amico
      37
    • Yes, For Sure but waiting until after launch
      3
    • Yes, For Sure but will wait for a price drop or special bundle
      5
    • Maybe, On the Fence with an open mind but still need to wait and see what happens
      38


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14 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

Could be my southern redneck heritage, but I think I've seen more violence occur from Cornhole than I've seen in Double Dragon. 

 

... I dunno what  "farkle" is, but I'm pretty sure that'd cause some fisticuffs, too, where I'm from.

Farkle sounds like it's when you laugh really hard and fart at the same time.

Edited by sn8k
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22 minutes ago, sn8k said:

Yes.... and now were talking about what violence actually is.

 

We're beyond what Tommy told me would happen.... but is visually not happening..... Compelling single player games. Not asking for Skyrim..... but some overhead topdown dungeon crawler rpg would be cool.

 

Or some 2.5 D apocalyptic run and gun.

According to your description the CEO responded that a game like Contra could come to Amico, not that it will anytime soon.  And they do have a top down dungeon crawler in Cloudy Mountain.

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2 hours ago, mr_me said:

According to your description the CEO responded that a game like Contra could come to Amico, not that it will anytime soon.  And they do have a top down dungeon crawler in Cloudy Mountain.

Did I say dungeon crawler? Or did I say dungeon crawler RPG? Something with a story. 

 

Not another couch co op loot fest.

 

Edited by sn8k
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4 hours ago, sn8k said:

No I am not. Now you're twisting shit to fit your argument.

Your main criticism of the Amico was that there won't be violent games. This means you implied a definition of the word "violence" that didn't include games like Missile Command or Moon Patrol. You obviously believe that without violent games, the Amico won't succeed.

 

Because I disagree with your point of view (that violent games are necessary), I asked you if you play only violent games. At that moment, you change your definition of what violence is. In order to "justify" your idea that allowing violent game is necessary, you now claim that games like Missile Command or Moon Patrol are violent.

 

You can't have it both ways. If you believe Missile Command is a violent game, then your main criticism of the Amico falls flat, since you are "proving" there will be violent games on the Amico. On the other hand, if you consider that Missile Command is not a violent game, then your justification for saying that violent games are necessary falls flat.

 

So is Missile Command a violent game or not?

 

3 hours ago, sn8k said:

Bullshit.

Feel free to prove me wong.

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3 hours ago, sn8k said:

Did I say dungeon crawler? Or did I say dungeon crawler RPG? Something with a story. 

 

Not another couch co op loot fest.

 

You don't need a story to be a full RPG.  And while I don't expect Amico Cloudy Mountain to be a full RPG it could have RPG elements.  There could be more RPG type games in the future but realise simple is one of the core features of Amico.

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On 9/8/2021 at 5:14 PM, sn8k said:

I am still planning a cross border VCS hunt. Canada still doesn't have those.

If you're still interested, AA User Rick Dangerous has a new one for sale in the marketplace.  The thread content seems to imply flexibility regarding shipping, so could save you a trip.

 

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, mr_me said:

You don't need a story to be a full RPG.  And while I don't expect Amico Cloudy Mountain to be a full RPG it could have RPG elements.  There could be more RPG type games in the future but realise simple is one of the core features of Amico.

Having a story is the literal definition of a role playing game.  

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An RPG needs a world, character development, and a quest.  Some people like stories in their games some people don't.

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On 9/15/2021 at 10:22 AM, mr_me said:

An RPG needs a world, character development, and a quest.  Some people like stories in their games some people don't.

How can you have a world or a quest without any story?  

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The story is by far the most overrated element of a video game.

 

Most of my favorite games don't have a story or have a vague one that you must "imagine" for yourself (i. e. Ico or Shadow of the Colossus). Retro games put you in a place where you have to escape and you don't know much (or anything at all) about the main character. And they work... really well!

 

One player games are like a simulation of exploring forests or abandoned houses as a kid. I believe the "main story" of a video game should be something you create by playing.

 

Of course, I also appreciate some "afterthought" and/or minimalistic stories in retro games (i. e. "I have created a game about a strange creature that jumps, let's see.... Oh well, you are an alien lost in another planet and...").

 

I'm not a fan of RPG games, especially turn based, but I believe they should be able to work fine with one of these ultra-minimalistic stories. To be honest, I find most modern movies, comic books and other media pretty boring, and modern videogame stories are often worse, so it's not such as great loss. As an example, Death Stranding would have flopped terribly if it was a movie.

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1 hour ago, mr_me said:

A quest is just a search for something.  Cloudy Mountain has a quest.

In my mind, a quest is always part of a story. I'd say Cloudy Mountain has a goal, but not a quest. For example, I've never heard anyone talking about searching for puzzle pieces in Mission Impossible as being on a quest. If a quest is just searching for something, then searching for a matching card in Memory would also a quest.

 

24 minutes ago, IntelliMission said:

The story is by far the most overrated element of a video game.

It obviously depends on the video game. For example, the reason Deus Ex is viewed as one of the best games ever made by many people is in big part because of its story (or I should rather say its set of stories).

 

Having said this, stories are now often used to push the player to continue playing a game that otherwise has no more interest. Having the story revealed becomes the goal of the game and the reward for playing the game.

 

24 minutes ago, IntelliMission said:

One player games are like a simulation of exploring forests or abandoned houses as a kid. I believe the "main story" of a video game should be something you create by playing.

The act of playing a role can be done in two ways. There is the "actor" way and there is the "girl playing tea party" way. RPG are a mix of both. I can agree that a "main story" is not essential for a CRPG, but then the CRPG must have a set of side stories.

 

24 minutes ago, IntelliMission said:

I'm not a fan of RPG games, especially turn based, but I believe they should be able to work fine with one of these ultra-minimalistic stories.

Could it be that you believe RPG should be able to work fine with an ultra-minimalistic story precisely because you're not a fan of RPG?

 

24 minutes ago, IntelliMission said:

To be honest, I find most modern movies, comic books and other media pretty boring, and modern videogame stories are often worse, so it's not such as great loss.

It seems to me you are kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It's not because most companies use talentless writers that the idea of a story is bad.

 

Several novels did have a great impact on me. Black Beauty when I was 8. The Bob Morane series when I was 9 and 10, Dune when I was 11, the Tarzan series when I was 14. All these books allowed me to go beyond my life, they made me think and in many ways they allowed to understand the world around me.

 

Even as an adult, there are still novels that truly changed me. For example, Germinal, that I read in my early 20's, completely changed my view of the class struggle. I won't go as far as saying this book changed me from being a leftist to being someone on the right all by itself, but it made me think a lot and certainly contributed to who I am now.

 

Several movies left deep scars on me. I remember how depressed I felt after watching The Day After. I remember how bad I felt after watching Schindler's List.

 

There are video game stories that also made me think. Deus Ex is one of them. I started the game happily killing "terrorists", to restraining myself, to trying as hard as I could to avoid casualties, even if it made succeeding a lot more difficult. Overall, the impact Deus Ex had on me was subtle, but there was still an impact. A game that had a more obvious impact on me was This War of Mine. Because of my military service, I already viewed war as a grave decision. The depression I felt while playing This War of Mine certainly deepened my feeling about war.

 

Again, I would agree most stories in video games really, really suck. They are empty and are made by talentless people. However this doesn't mean stories are overrated. It means video game companies should do better.

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You're right, a quest is more than a search; but a game with adventurers navigating caves and natural obstacles, battling monsters, searching for the crown of kings is a quest even if it's not an RPG nor has a story.

 

One of the goals with Amico is reasonable play session duration.  Play a game within an hour or two, and then play it again and again at other times.  Narrative cinematic games work against both of those ideas including replayability.  As a byproduct it also reduces development time and cost.  RPG games don't need stories but they do tend to get complicated, and simplicity is another goal they have for Amico games.

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On 9/15/2021 at 12:26 PM, bojay1997 said:

Having a story is the literal definition of a role playing game.  

Nah, “playing a role” is the literal definition regardless of story, or even if one exists.  I personally prefer a good story to give me a reason to keep on moving, but the very foundation of it is just playing a role, even if that’s as simple as “this is my character, now let’s go make the rest up as we go.”

 

 

43 minutes ago, Papy said:

Could it be that you believe RPG should be able to work fine with an ultra-minimalistic story precisely because you're not a fan of RPG?

 

I know you weren’t talking to me, but since we’re all part of the chat, hope it’s ok to butt in.  😁   But yeah, I AM a big fan of RPGs (Wester, Japanese, pen n’ paper, etc) and I agree with them completely.   While I prefer a story, a RPG absolutely can work fine with an ultra-minimalistic story.

 

I’ve seen it work many, many times when a group of friends get together for pen n’ paper.


Even in the most popular MMO RPGs, I’ve seen friends just get together to Role Play, ignoring all elements of the game’s story more often than I’ve seen them play to advance the story.

 

 

Kind of related --- Y’all remember that one where the guy washed up on shore with amnesia and turned out to some prophesized hero?  That one was pretty cool.
 

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39 minutes ago, mr_me said:

a game with adventurers navigating caves and natural obstacles, battling monsters, searching for the crown of kings is a quest

Why is it a quest? Do you think finding the red key to get to the exit in Doom is a quest?

 

39 minutes ago, mr_me said:

One of the goals with Amico is reasonable play session duration.  Play a game within an hour or two, and then play it again and again at other times.

Playing the same part of the game again and again (instead of playing new "chapters") is one of the goals with the Amico? Repetition is one of the goals with the Amico? Maybe it is, but why this goal?

 

39 minutes ago, mr_me said:

RPG games don't need stories but they do tend to get complicated, and simplicity is another goal they have for Amico games.

Can you give me an example of an RPG without stories?

 

Also, being complicated is not a requirement for an RPG. With all their power-ups, I'd say many modern shooters are more complicated than some RPG. Personally, I don't consider Zelda is an RPG, but most people do. However, I don't think many people view Zelda as complicated. I don't think Zelda is more complicated than Super Mario Bros (Disclaimer, I never played Zelda. I tried it, but quit playing after less than an hour. I just didn't like the game.)

 

6 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

While I prefer a story, a RPG absolutely can work fine with an ultra-minimalistic story.

Can you give me an example so I can understand what you mean with "ultra-minimalistic"?

 

6 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

I’ve seen friends just get together to Role Play, ignoring all elements of the game’s story

Are they still playing the game? Or are they just using the game as a tool to create their own game?

 

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17 minutes ago, Papy said:

Playing the same part of the game again and again (instead of playing new "chapters") is one of the goals with the Amico? Repetition is one of the goals with the Amico? Maybe it is, but why this goal?

Replayability.  If it's not one of their goals, it should be.  If games are designed with randomness, procedurally generated worlds for example, then you are playing a different game every time.

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10 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Replayability.

Replayability is a solution to the problem of having a short game, it is not a reason to create short games. Long games don't need replayability.

 

10 minutes ago, mr_me said:

If it's not one of their goals, it should be.

Again, my question is why? Casual gamers do play very long games. Something like Farmville was not a short game finished in an hour.

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Short games are not a problem.  Long games, three hours or more for example, are a problem for many people.

Edited by mr_me

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41 minutes ago, Papy said:

 

 

Can you give me an example of an RPG without stories?

 

Also, being complicated is not a requirement for an RPG. With all their power-ups, I'd say many modern shooters are more complicated than some RPG. Personally, I don't consider Zelda is an RPG, but most people do. However, I don't think many people view Zelda as complicated. I don't think Zelda is more complicated than Super Mario Bros (Disclaimer, I never played Zelda. I tried it, but quit playing after less than an hour. I just didn't like the game.)

 

Can you give me an example so I can understand what you mean with "ultra-minimalistic"?

 

 

 

Since you mentioned it, the first Zelda has a pretty minimalistic story. It can be ulteriorly be simplified without taking away what makes it an rpg to many. 

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The original Zelda lacks character development.  The second Zelda is more of an RPG 

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7 minutes ago, mr_me said:

The original Zelda lacks character development.  The second Zelda is more of an RPG 

The second is the only true Zelda rpg, since link levels up. Yet many consider the first one an rpg too, based on the main quest and lore. Lore can be easily placed in a game with ultra simplistic story. 

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39 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Short games are not a problem.  Long games, three hours or more for example, are a problem for many people.

I will stop using abstract concepts and explain why I think Amico should allow long games...

 

One game I'd really like to see on the Amico is a foreign language learning game disguised as an RPG. Imagine you start the game as a guy washed up on the shore of an island (like what Razzie.P said). However, all the characters living on this island speak the foreign language that you want to learn. The goal is not just to complete quests, but to understand what people say and guess what the quests are. Instead of using flashcards and plain memorization, the game would use a kind of immersion. What the player learns will be associated with a story he could remember instead of being disconnected from everything. To me, this is how gamification should be done.

 

I'm a big proponent of educational games. These games can't be short.

 

31 minutes ago, Retrodon said:

Since you mentioned it, the first Zelda has a pretty minimalistic story. It can be ulteriorly be simplified without taking away what makes it an rpg to many. 

I remember there was a lot of debate in the 80's between P&P RPG players and CRPG players to determine what constitutes an RPG.

 

I'd agree that character development is one of the key concepts, but then what constitutes character development is also open to debate. Is character development just changing a series of numbers? Or is it something that changes the way the player role play his character. For example, I mentioned that while playing Deus Ex, my attitude in the game toward "terrorists" changed. This change in the way I played my character was not because my stats changed, but because the story made me evolve. To me, this is real character development. To me, a game that is limited to managing stats, is not really an RPG.

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That sounds like a great idea for an educational game.  I don't think they have a rule against long games like they do against sex or gratuitous violence.  However, at the moment every Amico game must have a multiplayer mode.

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