Jetboot Jack Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) "Port must contain core logic (code) of the original game" - not actually true as a empirical definition, all "ports" do not have to or are not able to contain original code, although you would be true to assume the actual logic was ported - yet many arcade ports to 8bit machines were done with no access to the code, just the running game on original hardware - so logic by observation at best. And then there is the additional issue of say a Z80 source game ported to a 6502 system, even with access to source code no direct copy is possible... And even if such source code were available the difference between architecture and timing makes a lot of things not work, logic included - so conversion is a more general term I guess and the terms port, conversion etc are freely interchangeable from a user and developer point of view ? sTeVE P.S. Yes I have done porting and conversions of games.... Edited July 20, 2021 by Jetboot Jack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+scorpio_ny Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) What is interesting about the NES is that it is actually using a 6502 clone running at the same speed as the Atari 8bit. They were able to get away without being sued because they only used the portions of the 6502 that was not copyrighted. In fact, I have read that the source code for Super Mario Bros is available online. Maybe studying this code would give certain insights? Edited July 20, 2021 by scorpio_ny Grammar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 1 hour ago, scorpio_ny said: What is interesting about the NES is that it is actually using a 6502 clone running at the same speed as the Atari 8bit. They were able to get away without being sued because they only used the portions of the 6502 that was not copyrighted. In fact, I have read that the source code for Super Mario Bros is available online. Maybe studying this code would give certain insights? What? How could Atari sue somebody for using a MOS 6502? That's ridiculous. The 6502 is also the only thing the NES has in common with the Atari besides they both connect to a TV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 Not sure that he means Atari would sue but rather the holders of the 6502 intellectual property if Nintendo didn't license anything from them in reguard to their 'clone' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+scorpio_ny Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Stephen said: What? How could Atari sue somebody for using a MOS 6502? That's ridiculous. The 6502 is also the only thing the NES has in common with the Atari besides they both connect to a TV. Where in my post did I say it was Atari who doing was doing the suing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+scorpio_ny Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said: Not sure that he means Atari would sue but rather the holders of the 6502 intellectual property if Nintendo didn't license anything from them in reguard to their 'clone' @_The Doctor__ Correct! I never stated in my post that it was Atari who sued them. It was MOS Technologies/Commodore. It is quite interesting story. Here is an article on it in case anyone is interested. Reverse Engineering and Patent Protection: A Cautionary Tale Edited July 20, 2021 by scorpio_ny 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoestring Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 10 hours ago, Jetboot Jack said: And then there is the additional issue of say a Z80 source game ported to a 6502 system, even with access to source code no direct copy is possible... It can be done by hand but it is a very arduous task indeed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 14 hours ago, scorpio_ny said: @_The Doctor__ Correct! I never stated in my post that it was Atari who sued them. It was MOS Technologies/Commodore. It is quite interesting story. Here is an article on it in case anyone is interested. Reverse Engineering and Patent Protection: A Cautionary Tale My bad - I misread your post. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+scorpio_ny Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 32 minutes ago, Stephen said: My bad - I misread your post. Sorry. @Stephen, No worries! ? I should have made it more clear too. I can see how it could be implied from the post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Nice article, if it weren't for some back and forth it might not have been posted here. I'd say that's the kind of thing our interactions make happen. A tip of the hat to all, and kudos to scorpio_ny for linking it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 On 7/21/2021 at 1:44 AM, shoestring said: It can be done by hand but it is a very arduous task indeed. I think tedious and annoying both apply ? sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+scorpio_ny Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 I am not sure if this is helpful, but someone disassembled and posted 6502 source code for the actual NES Super Mario game. I am linking it here to see if this would be of interest to some of the programmers here. A Comprehensive Super Mario Bros. Disassembly 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Considering Nintendo's attitude to any sort of clone of SMB, I'd think most programmers would not want the hassle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+scorpio_ny Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said: Considering Nintendo's attitude to any sort of clone of SMB, I'd think most programmers would not want the hassle @Mclaneinc Very true! I linked this not necessarily for a port SMB. By studying the code, it may be possible to give someone insights on how things were done in that system in relation to the Atari 8 bit. Edited July 22, 2021 by scorpio_ny spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said: @Mclaneinc Very true! I linked this not necessarily for a port SMB. By studying the code, it may be possible to give someone insights on how things were done in that system in relation to the Atari 8 bit. Yes, I realised as much but just voiced the obvious.. As many of us know, just how much hassle a certain set of C64 makers got not so long ago Personally I'd love a port and any code that could help is always welcome, I'm just waiting for Rick Dangerous to finally get its release (unless there's been any mishaps) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+scorpio_ny Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said: As many of us know, just how much hassle a certain set of C64 makers got not so long ago For those who do not know: Nintendo Targets Amazing C64 Port of Super Mario Bros. After 7 Years’ Development Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, scorpio_ny said: I am not sure if this is helpful, but someone disassembled and posted 6502 source code for the actual NES Super Mario game. I am linking it here to see if this would be of interest to some of the programmers here. A Comprehensive Super Mario Bros. Disassembly It was already being looked into years ago on these forums; in fact on person did a preliminary version with rudimentary graphics (although he never intended to do a full version). 1 hour ago, scorpio_ny said: For those who do not know: Nintendo Targets Amazing C64 Port of Super Mario Bros. After 7 Years’ Development Most regulars on here are aware of the C64 port. Edited July 22, 2021 by MrFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo/ng Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, scorpio_ny said: I am not sure if this is helpful, but someone disassembled and posted 6502 source code for the actual NES Super Mario game. I am linking it here to see if this would be of interest to some of the programmers here. A Comprehensive Super Mario Bros. Disassembly the game engine/logic is not hard - the hard stuff is how to make render having 128 charset, zero hw sprites (because all going to the character+shot) and allocating 32-48 fonts for softsprites the same time. Giana |(SMB similar) has just one 2kb 256 charset and done. Edited July 22, 2021 by solo/ng typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 The simple fact that folks need to understand is that simply because it's a 6502 variant, It's not as simple as that.. It's a whole new machine with different display and graphical demands....It's like making an omelette in a microwave vs a pan, same idea, different hardware approach...One does not lend towards the other.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoestring Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 12 hours ago, Jetboot Jack said: I think tedious and annoying both apply ? sTeVE I don't know what is worse, going from Z80 to 6502 or from 6502 to Z80. I've attempted to port a game from the c64 to the Taito L System which uses a z80, it whore me down to the point where I literally suffered from headaches daily and couldn't continue. I realised a straight port wasn't going to work without some massive changes. 6502 and Z80 really don't go hand in hand. My A8 rom diagnostic was initially written for Gyruss, which uses a Z80. Eventually, this was ported to the KONAMI1 ( a custom 6809 with scrambled opcodes ) for games like Track & Field / HyperSports. So the A8 diag routines are based straight off of the 6809 code which was much more straight forward to port than it would have been had I taken the original Z80 code. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 8 hours ago, shoestring said: it whore me down to the point is that exhaustion++ ? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoestring Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 I should really use a spellchecker before posting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 It's the after effects of that Z80... sTeVE 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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