Was not releasing with CD at launch the biggest mistake Atari made with the Jaguar?

[+Stephen]

27 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

51 minutes ago, Stephen said:

The fumes are strong with this one.  I think maybe some gold paint got mixed in with the plastic fumes.

Negativity is strong with ^

No - I am grounded in reality, especially because I have owned a Jag since early 1994.

[JagChris]

Seeing that someone had used the multi-quote function, madman weeps with joy

[ataritiger]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

You mean Id Software, which is now owned by Microsoft, the company behind Xbox? 

And? Look im a doer not a dreamer or spectator or hater. I am an assistant plant manager at MCSllc Plastics PANJ plastic molding facility #1 and 2. We made 1,000 cheap plastic construction cones on 2 lines today. That order cones from the state. Cheap. They ask us to make those because its cheaper than the old rubber poly ones. We can use extra 3mm plastic left over to create 1/4 shells for Atari jaguar mini. I need approval from Atari age member who currently owns the jaguar shell in 2021, bought from coleco con artist, bought from medical dentist company.

Then all I would need is extra cash for Atari logo license from vcs owner, contact 20 game developers and have a month to create pcb boards. Making 1000 units would be cheap with bottom shell on line 13 and top shell on line 14...it could be done in 1 shift. The hardest parts are paying license for games and most is Atari logo and jaguar tm approval. Its not impossible in fact actavision is making new 2600 games I could pay for pitfall2 license as bonus. These things aren't impossible as long as internet and money and profit margin exists.

Sorry for typos im posting on ? from facility 

Edited August 2, 2021 by ataritiger

[ataritiger]

This is clear cone mold before color dye added. We usually have half a ton extra left over. All I need is red dye, black dye, metal cast and shell owner approval for 1/4 model.

[Bill Loguidice]

And history has shown that the most important step is always having the right plastic mold and then the rest easily follows...

[Clint Thompson]

1 hour ago, Lostdragon said:

Just out of curiosity, what are the sources for the number of units AVP sold on the Jaguar? 

There’s a spreadsheet from an official Atari DAT backup restored a few years ago that showed the numbers but that was as of mid-95. Don’t remember if it shows actual sold or total production numbers. 

[ataritiger]

29 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

And history has shown that the most important step is always having the right plastic mold and then the rest easily follows...

Can't put a pcb in without a shell I liked your comment ? I can't make 1, 000 shells without atari age member owner approval at 1/4 scale. Who is it so i can PM? My lawyer says any company or programmer with even stock of ownership rights to company who leaks rom into public domain such as alpha or beta rom doesn't need license fee. So now avp alpha and fight for life beta are on it. I got the shells covered, the lawyers, the facility and the will power to do this, beta roms and oh and my 180,000 salary don't hurt. All I need is the right people to talk to now. I dont feed into negativity, reality is what you make it. Read law of attraction. At least I'm making a plan for mini. You?

Edited August 2, 2021 by ataritiger

[ataritiger]

9 minutes ago, Clint Thompson said:

There’s a spreadsheet from an official Atari DAT backup restored a few years ago that showed the numbers but that was as of mid-95. Don’t remember if it shows actual sold or total production numbers. 

50,000 to 85,000

I'm literally at work next to Starscream my vice president ? and found answer

Edited August 2, 2021 by ataritiger

[Bill Loguidice]

4 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

Can't put a pcb in without a shell I liked your comment ? I can't make 1, 000 shells without atari age member owner approval at 1/4 scale. Who is it so i can PM? My lawyer says any company or programmer with even stock of ownership rights to company who leaks rom into public domain such as alpha or beta rom doesn't need license fee. So now avp alpha and fight for life beta are on it. I got the shells covered, the lawyers, the facility and the will power to do this, beta roms and oh and my 180,000 salary don't hurt. All I need is the right people to talk to now.

This will be my last comment on this, but I suggest you get a second opinion from a different lawyer. That's not how ownership rights work, leaked or otherwise. And good luck with effectively producing the type of PCB and software engineering you'll need and getting any licenses without quite a bit more than even many years worth of your annual salary.

[ataritiger]

Thats not my annual salary, I get paid quarterly ("do the math 4×180,000) plus I have a 2 million bet stock in the company. My uncle owns facility 2. Plus i can use facility for such side projects.. Ouch. Yes thx for your good luck.

Edited August 2, 2021 by ataritiger

[+GoldLeader]

29 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

And history has shown that the most important step is always having the right plastic mold and then the rest easily follows...

 

Goddamn,  Bill.

 

Now that put a smile on my face!

 

 

 

 

That said,  I personally see nothing wrong with dreaming big.  If you kept numbers low, ideally not as small as homebrew numbers, but nowhere near as big as TG Mini numbers,  and somehow navigated the legal maze of licensing (and were lucky enough to pull it of for peanuts).  Well, making a Jaguar Mini could happen, at least in theory...If someone had enough willpower and resources to try it.  I'm pretty sure it would require more money and effort than most people would ever believe (and remember Bill's not just whistling Dixie,  he works in the industry), and you'd have to have exquisite, once in a lifetime luck to pull it off...Plus reality would keep slapping you in the face like a 20 pound wet willy.  But I don't want to discourage ya...

[ataritiger]

I dont get discouraged and Bill's comment has merit via Coleco fiasco but that led to Atari Age member jag shell purchase, which can help me out. Any know who it is so we can talk?

[Clint Thompson]

1 hour ago, ataritiger said:

50,000 to 85,000

I'm literally at work next to Starscream my vice president ? and found answer

It's almost like saying the Jaguar sold somewhere between 125k to 250k units, that's a hell of a gap to toss up in the air.

 

52,223 lol

[Gummy Bear]

Can somebody please help this clown with the damn shell molds so he can waste his life savings already?

 

There's none so deaf as those that won't hear. 

[ataritiger]

10 minutes ago, Clint Thompson said:

It's almost like saying the Jaguar sold somewhere between 125k to 250k units, that's a hell of a gap to toss up in the air.

 

52,223 lol

Lol well some of us here say 50,000 to 85,000 if jaguar did sell 150,000 units then ? id say half of that was initial release and avp sales so 60,000 egm etc hyped avp up and jaguar did have good first push then it fell like a rock. Avp was its halo for a bit. Doom or Tempest2k was probably its 2nd highest seller in reality. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by ataritiger

[Bill Loguidice]

1 minute ago, Clint Thompson said:

It's almost like saying the Jaguar sold somewhere between 125k to 250k units, that's a hell of a gap to toss up in the air.

 

52,223 lol

I wonder if it's like the Jaguar selling 125,000 pre-liquidation and then up to 225,000 total post-liquidation, i.e., "out in the wild when all was said and done." Maybe it was roughly 50,000 sold pre-liquidation out of the roughly 80,000+ produced?

Either way, easily the worst selling major release console of all time, so definitely a worthy target for a re-release in plug and play form...

[ataritiger]

3 minutes ago, Gummy Bear said:

Can somebody please help this clown with the damn shell molds so he can waste his life savings already?

 

There's none so deaf as those that won't hear. 

Like I said negative comments don't phase me. About jag numbers here is an old thread 

 

[ataritiger]

9 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I wonder if it's like the Jaguar selling 125,000 pre-liquidation and then up to 225,000 total post-liquidation, i.e., "out in the wild when all was said and done." Maybe it was roughly 50,000 sold pre-liquidation out of the roughly 80,000+ produced?

Either way, easily the worst selling major release console of all time, so definitely a worthy target for a re-release in plug and play form...

Yup like Astro City mini who heard of that? A game gear micro  nobody asked for. Yes game gear sold 10mil but who asked for 4 versions of a half palmed sized micro version being produced and SOLD? Astro who hype? Hmmm why are you so against my mini jaguar idea?

Edited August 2, 2021 by ataritiger

[Gummy Bear]

3 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

Yup like game gear micro  nobody asked for. Yes game gear sold 10mil but who asked for 4 versions of a half palmer sized micro version being produced and sold? Hmmm why are you so against my mini jaguar idea?

I smell conspiracy! 

 

Bill is secretly planning to make a Jag mini but now he knows that you will definitely do one! 

And it'll be on Amazon next week! ?

[ataritiger]

Just now, Gummy Bear said:

I smell conspiracy! 

 

Bill is secretly planning to make a Jag mini but now he knows that you will definitely do one! 

And it'll be on Amazon next week! ?

We can work together.

[Agent X]

18 hours ago, Leeroy ST said:

2D wasn't going to move things at the time, it's competition already had Need For Speed before it was fully available iirc. It's also why Atari kept demanding textures or effects even if the fps dropped to 2.

 

Right, and we saw that the strategy of stressing the system and bogging down the games' performance didn't work.

 

That strategy certainly didn't produce better playing games, but I suppose Atari hoped that having pretty screen shots for ads and magazine previews would produce better selling games. In the end, those games neither played nor sold particularly well.

 

There were still some big-name 2D games that were selling. Atari fought to license Mortal Kombat 3, and they did. However, the PlayStation version of MK3 came out in late 1995, and Sony secured an exclusive time window for 32-bit/64-bit consoles. This meant that no other 32-bit/64-bit console could have MK3 for a certain length of time (6 to 12 months). The PlayStation version was great, but even if the Jaguar somehow managed to get a superior version 6-12 months later, it wouldn't have mattered by that time. The Jaguar really needed that game in late 1995 (alongside PS1, SNES, and Genesis), not 1996.

 

Even the 3DO version of Super Street Fighter II Turbo did reasonably well. I believe that was one of the best selling games on that system. If the Jaguar had a comparable version of the game around the same time (and not a year later), then it probably would have done well there, too. Unfortunately, Atari couldn't sign Capcom on as a developer.

 

On the bright side, the Jaguar did get an excellent version of NBA Jam Tournament Edition. It came out about four months later than PlayStation and Saturn, so it had no impact in moving the needle for Jaguar sales. At least it was a moral victory for the Jaguar, and a highlight for the few loyal Jaguar players remaining at that time.

 

19 hours ago, Leeroy ST said:

Jaguar would have had come out in 92 for that to work, or panther. Yeah MK3 or SSFT would have done some moves initially but not long term, and 3D fighting had sales novelty no matter how bad the game was.

 

There were a lot of 3D fighting games that flopped, because the market for that type of game got saturated very quickly. Even Sega struggled to sell 3D fighting games on the Saturn that didn't have "Virtua" in the name, and some of those games were legitimately great.

 

[Bill Loguidice]

8 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

Like I said negative comments don't phase me. About jag numbers here is an old thread 

 

Except the facts - the literal Atari filings - bear out the numbers I gave. But sure, believe it sold 3 times the established amount.

[ataritiger]

Amen agent x. Im shocked jaguar could even run polygons at 15 to 30 fps but they wanted textured that bogged it to 9 to 14 ooofffff?

[ataritiger]

3 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Except the facts - the literal Atari filings - bear out the numbers I gave. But sure, believe it sold 3 times the established amount.

What facts? Who said i believe 85,000? I'm saying thats whats all over internet about subject. What's exact total? Where you a ceo at company who knows for sure amount sold or you going by internet data sheets from 2006? Why you being so negative and cryptic? Tell him how much it sold with proof so he dont ask again. Easy right? If fake 85000 number is 3x more than it sold 22 000 correct which is 25 to 33% of jaguar sales? I never saw your data sheet so idk.

Edited August 2, 2021 by ataritiger

[Bill Loguidice]

8 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

Yup like Astro City mini who heard of that? A game gear micro  nobody asked for. Yes game gear sold 10mil but who asked for 4 versions of a half palmed sized micro version being produced and SOLD? Astro who hype? Hmmm why are you so against my mini jaguar idea?

You're comparing apples to oranges. Platforms that have exponentially more fans around them than something like the Jaguar. Those minis may have been misguided in some ways, but they still had access to more game content that people want to play and actually know of than anything that can appear on the Jaguar from still well-established companies. 

And I'm not against the idea of a Jaguar Mini, it's just wildly impractical. If anything, I'm simply against the idea of pursuing something like that when there's clearly such a significant misunderstanding or willful ignorance of the basics to make something like that actually happen. It just doesn't make sense.