Was not releasing with CD at launch the biggest mistake Atari made with the Jaguar?

[ataritiger]

1 minute ago, Editorb said:

Regarding demand, I think consoles sold originally is irrelevant. Thoroughly anecdotal, but I have coupla  friends who would buy a mini Jag, as would I. The console’s legacy has grown over decades, and prices are through roof. (Typed as fellow who picked wrong time to procure the 23 original-release carts I lacked. Down to Atari Karts and NBA Jam, plus a box for Rayman.)

Indeed. Thank you. Alot of great titles. If chilly willy can help with better steer code better than current fixed steer now for checkered flag and fight4life fps by cutting ir code I could add those roms too.

[ataritiger]

2 minutes ago, pacman000 said:

If you’re curious, there’s footage on YouTube of Atari testing the 3D engine they bought. It lists the frame rate & polygons per second for different graphics modes. (Shaded, not shaded, textured, not textured, etc.)

Thank ? you ill check

[+CyranoJ]

3 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

Indeed. Thank you. Alot of great titles. If chilly willy can help with better steer code better than current fixed steer now for checkered flag and fight4life fps by cutting ir code I could add those roms too.

That isn't how you volunteer other people.

That isn't how you acquire licensing rights.

That isn't.

[rayik]

35 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

Indeed. Thank you. Alot of great titles. If chilly willy can help with better steer code better than current fixed steer now for checkered flag and fight4life fps by cutting ir code I could add those roms too.

 

Piece of cake.

 

While we are at it, let's not forget that including a 2x drive that cannot stream redbook audio and does not add any hardware capabilities would certainly have made the Jaguar a winner.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by rayik

[+GoldLeader]

New Mini Console That Jaguar MiniBox?

[pacman000]

What if, instead of a CD drive, the Jaguar had a SuperFloppy drive!? Huh? What about that?

[+Sauron]

Again, I ask...where do we find these people?

[zetastrike]

6 minutes ago, pacman000 said:

What if, instead of a CD drive, the Jaguar had a SuperFloppy drive!? Huh? What about that?

Nah man, think bigger!  A Floptical drive!

[JagChris]

1 hour ago, pacman000 said:

If you’re curious, there’s footage on YouTube of Atari testing the 3D engine they bought. It lists the frame rate & polygons per second for different graphics modes. (Shaded, not shaded, textured, not textured, etc.)

They didn't buy it. Eric Smith wrote it unless you're talking about something else. It's very inefficient and Mike Fulton said Atari figured developers would want to roll their own so not much resources were put into developing it. 

[pacman000]

4 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Again, I ask...where do we find these people?

They find us...

 

(We find you?)

[+CyranoJ]

6 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Again, I ask...where do we find these people?

 

 

[pacman000]

1 minute ago, JagChris said:

They didn't buy it. Eric Smith wrote it unless you're talking about something else. It's very inefficient and Mike Fulton said Atari figured developers would want to roll their own so not much resources were put into developing it. 

Good to know. I thought it looked decent; having a 3D engine, even a bad one, might’ve helped developers.

[JagChris]

1 hour ago, ataritiger said:

Would a 30fps 60k regular polygon game be possible?

You would have to talk to Atari Owl, the reigning champ of 3D on the Jag about that. 

 

I see a lot of people coming on here saying they'd buy a Jag but they're too expensive. I'd buy one if it was an actual VLSI recreation of a Jag.

 

If it was some other system trying to emulate the Jag I wouldn't be interested. 

 

 

[JagChris]

I don't know if there would be enough interest to justify such an endeavor but I'm sure there'd be some interest. 

[ataritiger]

24 minutes ago, JagChris said:

I don't know if there would be enough interest to justify such an endeavor but I'm sure there'd be some interest. 

Thank you. My lawyer will contact companies and shell owner here. We can't go to step 2 without 1. Thank you to those being positive and negative, it all helps me. Edit : Wow great video btw. Thank you for link.

Edited August 3, 2021 by ataritiger

[Bill Loguidice]

1 hour ago, Editorb said:

Regarding demand, I think consoles sold originally is irrelevant. Thoroughly anecdotal, but I have coupla  friends who would buy a mini Jag, as would I. The console’s legacy has grown over decades, and prices are through roof. (Typed as fellow who picked wrong time to procure the 23 original-release carts I lacked. Down to Atari Karts and NBA Jam, plus a box for Rayman.)

It's absolutely relevant if you want to produce a mass market product (tens of thousands at the bare minimum). It's irrelevant if you want to create a relatively low risk, low volume homebrew passion project (hundreds as a top projection). If you want to produce something in-between like this, with a semi-automated production run, proper packaging, real licenses, etc., there are many other factors at play, including how inexpensively this can all be put together, what's realistically available to license, and what you can ultimately sell it for either at a profit, or at the very least at a break even or slight loss. Unfortunately, several of those factors are aggressively working against the creation of a Jaguar-centric project because you're probably not going to sell more than into maybe the single digit thousands of units best case scenario even if you pretend you can release at an unrealistically low price point with such a modest production run.

It might be a different story if an experienced company would produce a Jaguar Mini at say an $80 price point with one controller (and that's in the unrealistically low territory, but stay with me). Then you might get in the very low tens of thousands of units sold on curiosity factor alone, but unfortunately you still would fall well short on the licenses (you're simply not getting titles like NBA Jam or AvP, for example), so I don't think it would sell even that much lacking any big name titles. And then there's still the issue with the controller. You can pack in a generic Xbox-style controller and remap the buttons for most games you can include anyway I would think, so you'd solve that problem, but then that arguably would further lower the appeal. And that's again assuming you can pack in hardware with sufficient performance and an emulator that can properly run the games you're including, neither of which is a given.

Now, take an inexperienced company (or person) and suddenly those factors are compounded, along with the price. If you have to sell at $200 - $300, then you're not going to sell very many, even with little (or negative) profit for a simple software-based emulation box (which you can do a myriad of other ways, of course). And if you don't understand licensing and include games you shouldn't have, well, legally, you'll be forced to stop selling the product anyway, so there's that. 

Of course, I could be wrong and we'll all be lusting after $150 Jaguar Minis with recreated controllers and recognizable licensed games like AvP, Rayman, Wolfenstein 3D, and many others in 2023...

[+madman]

Yesterday this guy wasn't sure if the Jag Mini, as posted on a fan ideas website that states it is fictional, is real or not to now making his own Jag Mini. What could possibly go wrong in the process he seems like he knows what he's doing, that's for sure! Only on the Jag forum, folks.

[rayik]

@Bill Loguidice

 

Why are you taking this seriously?

 

This person is seeking reactions.  If they were serious they would be reaching out to the appropriate folks rather than posting on a forum seeking anonymous input or approval.

Edited August 3, 2021 by rayik

[pacman000]

While I love the idea of a Jag-mini, I think a generic 90 s themed classic console would be better. It wouldn’t carry the Jag’s baggage, & you’d have more games to choose from, so finding a handful of decent games to license cheaply would be easier.

[pacman000]

10 minutes ago, rayik said:

@Bill Loguidice

 

Why are you taking this seriously?

 

This person is seeking reactions.  If they were serious they would be reaching out to the appropriate folks rather than posting on a forum seeking anonymous input or approval.

Because it’s our duty to correct things on the internet, no matter how trivial!

https://xkcd.com/386/
 

Edited August 3, 2021 by pacman000

[Bill Loguidice]

13 minutes ago, rayik said:

@Bill Loguidice

 

Why are you taking this seriously?

 

This person is seeking reactions.  If they were serious they would be reaching out to the appropriate folks rather than posting on a forum seeking anonymous input or approval.

I agree. I like the exercise to think various things through sometimes, though, so nothing lost from my end.

[Bill Loguidice]

8 minutes ago, pacman000 said:

While I love the idea of a Jag-mini, I think a generic 90 s themed classic console would be better. It wouldn’t carry the Jag’s baggage, & you’d have more games to choose from, so finding a handful of decent games to license cheaply would be easier.

Something like the Polymega is basically that, although it's unlikely to get official support for second-tier (or lower) systems. 

[Zerosquare]

20 minutes ago, rayik said:

Why are you taking this seriously?

Because a reboot of the Chameleon comedy series sounds like an entertaining idea.

[+cubanismo]

9 hours ago, ataritiger said:

We can use extra 3mm plastic left over to create 1/4 shells for Atari jaguar mini.

What, someone's printin' shells again? Don't care for a tiny Jaguar, but I'd like to reiterate my request for a full-size translucent purple one. With Unicorns. And strippers.

 

3 hours ago, pacman000 said:

3 hours ago, Sauron said:

Again, I ask...where do we find these people?

They find us...

 

(We find you?)

This was exactly what went through my head.

 

Get a beer, put your feet up. This board has been too quiet since Last Strike came out. I've been enjoying this thread immensely. No technical merit required.

[+cubanismo]

Oh and if the mini-jaguar shell doesn't have a detachable mini-CD drive, no deal. I mean, 12 pages in, we're all agreed that was what the Jaguar needed most, right?