What SD-card do you use with AVG-cart ?

[+CharlieChaplin]

Evil me, I am copying the text of Level42, BUT (instead of SIDE3) I am asking which SD-card you are using with your AVG-cart...  ;-)

 

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I figured it would be useful for current and future owners of the wonderful AVG cartridge to know which SD card to get to use it trouble free.

 

Here's my own results so far. If you can, please copy the format and fill out the details of your working (or not) SD card(s).

 

Brand: 
Model: 
Size (GB): 

Type (SD, SDHC, SDXC, SDUC): 
Speed (Standard, High-speed, UHS-I , UHS-II, UHS-III, Express): 

Physical size (Standard, Mini, Micro): 
Used adapter for Mini or Micro: 

Used on what computer (400,800, 600XL, 800XL, 1200XL, 65XE, 130XE, 800XE, XEGS):

Any hardware mods (Antonia, U1MB, Sophia 1, Sophia 2, Stereo Pokey, Pokeymac, etc. etc.):
Original Atari or new (switching Power Supply):

74F08 installed ?

Does it work absolutely trouble free (Loading CAR, XEX, BIN, ATR (with SIO-cable), runs PDM music, AVF videos) ?: 
If not, what issues ?: 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Brand: Sandisk

Model: ultra
Size (GB): 16GB  (80MB/s)

Type (SD, SDHC, SDXC, SDUC): SDHC
Speed (Standard, High-speed, UHS-I , UHS-II, UHS-III, Express): 10, 1, I, whatever, don't care

Physical size (Standard, Mini, Micro): standard
Used adapter for Mini or Micro: no

Used on what computer (400,800, 600XL, 800XL, 1200XL, 65XE, 130XE, 800XE, XEGS): 800XL, PAL

Any hardware mods (Antonia, U1MB, Sophia 1, Sophia 2, Stereo Pokey, Pokeymac, etc. etc.):

two 800XL with 512k SRAM extension by tf_hh, switchable OS (switchable between XL-OS Rev. 2 and OS-B), another two 800XL with 512k SRAM extension by mega-hz, switchable OS (XL-OS, OS-B), stereo-enhancement by Lotharek
Original Atari or new (switching Power Supply): original Atari PSU, 1.5A by german producer FW (26VA)

74F08 installed ? No.

Does it work absolutely trouble free (Loading CAR, XEX, BIN, ATR (with SIO-cable), runs PDM music, AVF videos) ?:

I think so
If not, what issues ?:

a) I have not tested the millions of CAR, XEX, ATR, etc. that are available for the A8 (just a few dozen), b) both Lotharek stereo enhancements do produce an awful lot of noise (even in mono-mode) with PDM and AVF, so I avoid using them and use the mono-audio-out of the monitor/DIN-5 output instead (other stereo-Pokey sounds seem to work fine, so it looks like the Pokeys and/or stereo-enhancements are not really defect...)

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Brand: Sandisk

Model:  ultra
Size (GB): 32GB (80MB/s)

Type (SD, SDHC, SDXC, SDUC): SDHC

all the rest: same as above!

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Brand: Sandisk

Model:  ultra
Size (GB): 64GB  (100MB/s)

Type (SD, SDHC, SDXC, SDUC): SDXC

all the rest: same as above!

 

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I also have two Sandisk 2GB SD-cards and two Transcend 2GB SD-cards which I normally use for my SIO2SD devices, but maybe I will also test them with my AVG carts (and playback of PDM sounds and AVF videos)...

 

[a8isa1]

Using new old stock Sandisk 32GB class 4  (yep.  I said "old stock")

 

[EDIT]

P.S. Everything OP listed runs here.

Edited July 26, 2021 by a8isa1

[Faicuai]

For AVG, I am using SanDisk EDGE 8GB (daily driver) and at times SanDisk Extreme III (2GB)... Atari 800, and 800XL, reads and loads everything I throw at it (AVG cart has other / different issues, though).

 

For Side2 and Incognito, I only use SanDisk CF Ultra 4GB, and SanDisk CF Extreme III 4GB... Have yet to find a problem to this day, in any loading scenario, in any application.

 

 

 

 

[Mclaneinc]

Same as most here, SanDisk Ultra, there's a 10 in a circle so I presume that's the class?

 

32gig in a Lexar adaptor..

 

No idea if there's a 74F08 installed.. (what is its purpose / is it needed?)

 

Not had any issues with my 800XL but sometimes when the card is put in the PC it wants to scan it for corrupt files with the scan and fix interface..Had one instance of corrupt files, the rest of the time its checks out ok.. Will give the SD slots a contact clean just in case (flat gets dusty quickly)

[Level42]

23 hours ago, CharlieChaplin said:

Evil me, I am copying the text of Level42, BUT (instead of SIDE3) I am asking which SD-card you are using with your AVG-cart... 

You’re most welcome

 

Just out of curiosity: were there any issues that _might_ be related to different SD cards used with AVG anyway ?

[Mr Robot]

I'm using Sandisk Ultra 16gb micro SD cards in generic adapters in both my AVGCARTs with no problems at all. 

 

They came from this Amazon listing

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MR6K8PD/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_J6YQVX0B5KVMDZVMZ86R?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

[tmp]

11 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

No idea if there's a 74F08 installed.. (what is its purpose / is it needed?)

my understanding is that this is a kludge for some devices (mostly multicarts/ide devices) that are not tolerant to variances in phi2 signal characteristics among atari units, changing 74LS08 to 74F08 (in atari) usually makes phi2 signal "nicer" so they can handle it

 

i'm actually curious whether anyone needed to change this chip to make avgcart working on his machine, i've never recommended anyone doing so (or any other hw mod) and nobody reported doing so to me either but it could be that it became so automatic for atari folks to try it so they don't even bother mentioning it and that's why i'm just not aware of the issue

[Faicuai]

2 hours ago, tmp said:

for some devices (mostly multicarts/ide devices) that are not tolerant to variances in phi2 signal characteristics among atari units, changing 74LS08 to 74F08 (in atari) usually makes phi2 signal "nicer" so they can handle it

 

Well, the 800 is where it all starts... and ends, because.... there is no PHi2 on the left cart port, yet AVG works, while... Side2 fails to oblivion... with the exception of 800/Incognito, where Side2 will work as intended, without any host modification.

 

 

 

[Mclaneinc]

Thanks for the answer @tmp, I won't be doing any mods as it's all good here..

 

Paul..

[Level42]

12 hours ago, tmp said:

my understanding is that this is a kludge for some devices (mostly multicarts/ide devices) that are not tolerant to variances in phi2 signal characteristics among atari units, changing 74LS08 to 74F08 (in atari) usually makes phi2 signal "nicer" so they can handle it

 

i'm actually curious whether anyone needed to change this chip to make avgcart working on his machine, i've never recommended anyone doing so (or any other hw mod) and nobody reported doing so to me either but it could be that it became so automatic for atari folks to try it so they don't even bother mentioning it and that's why i'm just not aware of the issue

I don't have an AVG cart, but I had two issues with SIDE3 and following this I did put a 74F08 in my 600XL. I noticed no difference. The source of one issue was a firmware thing which is now solved. The other is still a mystery but the F certainly doesn't fix it. As a matter of fact, I didn't try it with the original 74LS08. Which makes me want to put it back and try again (Long live the 600XL, all IC's socketed ! )

AFAIK and read, the XE's are where the problems are mostly with the 74LS08.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Level42

[mdivancic]

On 7/28/2021 at 9:58 AM, Level42 said:

AFAIK and read, the XE's are where the problems are mostly with the 74LS08.

Though it can happen with XL’s. My 800XL was completely unstable with the SIDE2/U1M combo until I did the replacement. Also agree with your comment about completely socketed units, my 800XL came this way and it’s so nice to work on.

[Level42]

Aha ! I think I read about a 1200XL with issues fixed by a 78F08 too….

 

yeah big credits to Warner-Atari for the sockets !

[jhusak]

I must say, that 32GB SanDisk cards mentioned didn't work for me in a strange way: I copied movies, they played without issues. Then after two weeks I have played them and - playback was messed. So I recopied them again and this time they worked ALMOST sithout issues, ie after 5-10 minutes desynced.

 

Now I use SanDisk 128GB (white-grey) and it works without issues for now, several movies and audio files played.

65XE without ANY mods.

Edited February 3, 2022 by jhusak

[Beeblebrox]

18 minutes ago, jhusak said:

I must say, that 32GB SanDisk cards mentioned didn't work for me in a strange way: I copied movies, they played without issues. Then after two weeks I have played them and - playback was messed. So I recopied them again and this time they worked ALMOST sithout issues, ie after 5-10 minutes desynced.

 

Now I use SanDisk 128GB (white-grey) and it works without issues for now, several movies and audio files played.

65XE without ANY mods.

@jhusak  just outta interest any vids of the movie playback in action? 

[Mclaneinc]

 

I've never played a full movie but have seen the Iron Man 2 raceway scene, and it was flawless, I've also seen the sets of game intro's done by someone on here, again faultless as long as you don't mind the res..

 

Can't help with any vid's of the vids, anything on YT would probably be made out of sync by the conversion

 

Pretty sure the SIDE3 can play them as it's Jon's software on the AVG I've used.

[+CharlieChaplin]

7 hours ago, jhusak said:

I must say, that 32GB SanDisk cards mentioned didn't work for me in a strange way: I copied movies, they played without issues. Then after two weeks I have played them and - playback was messed. So I recopied them again and this time they worked ALMOST sithout issues, ie after 5-10 minutes desynced.

 

Now I use SanDisk 128GB (white-grey) and it works without issues for now, several movies and audio files played.

65XE without ANY mods.

 

 

Hmmm,

 

I made the following experience: When I format the SD-card and copy all files (ATR, XEX, PDM, AVF, etc.) in one go onto the SD-card, then everything works fine. Think the files on the SD-card are unfragmented then.

 

If I delete files on the SD-card and copy new files onto it, then several PDM and AVF files do not play correctly anymore (ear-killing noise with PDM files, lots of frame-errors with AVF files). Okay, maybe the files are fragmented then ?!?

 

However, if I only add files to the SD-card AND add them to several folders (ATR, AVF, PDM, XEX, etc. my folders are named just like the extenders) then the same thing happens, several PDM and AVF files do not play correctly anymore, allthough I did not delete anything. This happened with 16GB, 32GB and 64GB Sandisk ultra SD-cards.

 

So, whenever I want to add new files to the SD-card, then I am formatting the SD-card first, copy all files (old ones + new ones) and after that all the files do run fine. I am quite sure, this is not the normal way one should do it - formatting the SD-card again and again (hey, let's add an 8k CAR-file, but before that, format the 16GB, 32GB, 64GB SD-card first), but this is the best (only?) way it works for me. Luckily we can write to the SD-card or format it several (hundred) thousand times.

 

And ermmm, I only experienced this problem with PDM and AVF files, as of yet, it did not happen with other files (like ATR, XEX, CAR, etc.).

 

[+Stephen]

The PDM and AVF files must be contiguous on the SD card.

[+CharlieChaplin]

7 minutes ago, Stephen said:

The PDM and AVF files must be contiguous on the SD card.

 

Thats what I thought.

 

But do SD-cards always put files contiguous on the card ? Think I read that after formatting and writing several (thousand?) times, they also spread files on the card onto less used sectors/clusters ?!?

 

And errrm, as said before, when I format the SD-card and copy files onto it, then they are contiguous. But as soon as I add several new files (without ever deleting one single file!), then some of the PDM and AVF files (that were contiguous and without errors before), suddenly do not play correct anymore - as if the SD-card (or Windows?) had moved them somewhere else on the card...?!?

 

[flashjazzcat]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

The PDM... files must be contiguous on the SD card.

Most interesting.

[_The Doctor__]

SD wear leveling firmware sucks... the idea used to be that the SD card would leave old data alone and move stuff around to the least used cells when adding to the card.. the current striping of all data in the cells and presenting the data as if it were still in the same location presents timing challenges...

you don't want the reformat the the card at low level either... you might do only fat blanking format and then writing all the files back out...

This is the sh*t the camera forums used to discuss and why so many hated SD cards at the time... faster cards helped alleviate some of the issues, the discussion became about guaranteed data delivery rates vs stated rates on cards... 

[+Stephen]

48 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

The PDM... files must be contiguous on the SD card.

Most interesting.

Is this not the case?  Maybe I am mis-remembering, and it is only the AVF files that need to be?

[flashjazzcat]

2 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Is this not the case?  Maybe I am mis-remembering, and it is only the AVF files that need to be?

I didn't know myself to be honest, but I just looked on 'De Re AVG' and the contiguous requirement is only mentioned with regard to AVF files.

 

[+CharlieChaplin]

Brand: Sandisk

Model: ultra
Size (GB): 128GB  (120MB/s and 130 MB/s)

Type (SD, SDHC, SDXC, SDUC): SDXC
Speed (Standard, High-speed, UHS-I , UHS-II, UHS-III, Express): 10, 1, I, whatever, don't care

Physical size (Standard, Mini, Micro): standard
Used adapter for Mini or Micro: no

Used on what computer (400,800, 600XL, 800XL, 1200XL, 65XE, 130XE, 800XE, XEGS): 800XL, PAL

Any hardware mods (Antonia, U1MB, Sophia 1, Sophia 2, Stereo Pokey, Pokeymax, etc., etc.):

- two 800XL with 512k SRAM extension by tf_hh, switchable OS (switchable between XL-OS Rev. 2 and OS-B),

- another two 800XL with 512k SRAM extension by mega-hz, switchable OS (XL-OS, OS-A), stereo-enhancement by tf_hh
Original Atari or new (switching Power Supply): original Atari PSU, 1.5A by german producer FW (26VA)

74F08 installed ? No.

 

Does it work absolutely trouble free (loading CAR, XEX, ATR (with SIO-cable), running PDM music, AVF videos) ?: YES.
If not, what issues ?:

a) I have not tested the millions of CAR, XEX, ATR, etc. that are available for the A8 (just a few dozen),

b) no more (awful) noise when playing PDM/PDS/COV/COS files, thanks to newly installed tf_hh stereo enhancements in my 800XL computers

c) saving the config settings on the AVG and Sub Cart for the very first time takes approx. 30-60 seconds, no clue why; further saves go much faster (less than 1 second);

 

 

[bfollowell]

I use SanDisk 32GB Ultra MicroSDHC UHS-I Memory Card  - 98MB/s, C10, U1, Full HD, A1, Micro SD Cards with all of my retro devices, whether Ultimate Cart, FujiNet, Raspberry Pi, whatever, and I've never had any issues whatsoever with any of them. Actually, I use SanDisk flash media exclusively, regardless of application.