Match Over R2/M9

Plus, the PS2 digital shoulder buttons feel much better than the smushy DC analog shoulder buttons. And the analog buttons on the DC pad seem to have to be pressed at least halfway down before they even respond in the first place.

Now if we could just get rid of those useless stubby little analog mushrooms on the modern controllers.

Brian R. · August 18, 2003

DREAMCAST

I so hope the Dreamcast controller wins this round.

The PS controller may be well-made, but IMO it is complicated and confusing and is among the top reasons I have never bought a PS of any kind and probably never will. I don't like the use of shapes to represent the buttons, and the four shoulder buttons are too many, plus you have not one but TWO analog sticks PLUS the D-pad.

The Dreamcast controller is one of the best I've ever used. While some may moan about it having four fire buttons instead of six, I like the four button layout. I love the analog stick. And the two trigger buttons on its underside are its best feature - the evolution of the shoulder button from an inconvenient thing to try to use to a perfectly implemented controller feature. They are positioned perfectly and are excellent to use as gun triggers or accelerator and brake pedals.

While the DC controller may look large, it's easy to hold. The two "blades" on the sides make for perfect grip, putting the thumbs just where they need to be to access the analog stick, D-pad and fire buttons; plus the index fingers naturally rest right where the triggers are underneath.

liquid_sky · August 18, 2003

saturn/dreamcast. wide button placement for people with american hands.

+kisrael · August 18, 2003

The PS2 pad wins hands down. It is much more comfortable to hold than the Dreamcast Pad.

Plus, the PS2 digital shoulder buttons feel much better than the smushy DC analog shoulder buttons. And the analog buttons on the DC pad seem to have to be pressed at least halfway down before they even respond in the first place.

Now if we could just get rid of those useless stubby little analog mushrooms on the modern controllers.

Disagree completely.

Both are "comfortable enough to hold", but when you actually start having to use 'em, the placement of the twin sticks is awful. My hand hurts after medium long stretches of GTA:VC.

And talk about mushy...no button on the PS2 controller feels right, because they all have 255 levels of pressness...that's like, what, a nanometer for each one? Resulting in something you just can't press halfway, and you're never sure if you're pressing it all the way, either. I started using the original Dualshocks in GTA:VC just to be sure I had the gas fully pressed.

DC shoulder buttons can be a little harsh with a ton of usage, but not as bad as the DualShock. Haven't noticed the lack of responsiveness 'til the halfway point you mentioned.

I think "stubby little mushrooms" are great for everything except maybe flight games. Good tight control, it's easy to press them all the way, onlu a little more difficult to use light touches.

Dualshock also has too many buttons that are too similar. Even a few rounds of Parappa isn't enough to let me intuit what's circle, what's triangle, etc, and R1 vs R2 is even worse.

VMU was super cool in theory, I love the idea of a microgameboy, but lousy control and weird battery issues make it mostly useful for displaying little cartoons of your character. Still, a neat innovation.

The capper: how many controller ports does the system have (without having to buy a multitap...)

DC (and GC) are made for people with friends.

PS and PS2 is made for people with fewer friends.

(and Xbox is made for people whose friends spend most of their lives online.)

Dreamcast controller all the way.

somePUNK · August 18, 2003

tough call but i'm gonig witht eh ps2 for the fact that it dose have mjore complexe control to make for a better game playing experiance for me

PuddWakkr · August 18, 2003

I will cast a vote for the DC. Like the controller alot.

Trooper · August 18, 2003

Since I think that the DC controller is by far the greatest controller I've ever had in my hands it will get my vote! I do enjoy playing with the PS controllers aswell but they just don't fit as naturally in my hands as the DC so.......Dreamcast

Troop

Lost Monkey · August 18, 2003

I have never felt comfortable with the PS controller. The analogue sticks are fine but the digital buttons on the d-pad have always "confused" my fingers... I feel as though I am fighting with the controller and even getting "pinched" between the buttons. I don't hate the PS controllers, I just can't use them worth a damn...

The Saturn "3-D" pad was a great upgrade to the Saturn pad and the DC was an elegant follow-up.. with the exception of the inferior d-pad and fewer face buttons.

Vote Saturn/DC

Gabriel · August 18, 2003

%^$r**&%^$!

Obviously we have here nothing more than a bunch of Sega zombies who wouldn't know innnovation if it came up and bit them in the ass. You are all blinded by nostalgia for an inferior dead system!

Yes. That was a joke. Possibly not one in very good taste, but it was still a joke. So, no one blow a gasket. 'k?

But, like Kisreal and his Nintendo rant, I have to admit I don't understand why anyone would prefer to play a game with a Dreamcast controller over a PS2 controller. But, if the DC pad wins (and it looks as if that is a foregone conclusion at this point), then it completely changes my thoughts on the third tier matchup.

thund3r · August 18, 2003

dreamcast here, just more colourful than the pspoo pad and u can stick a vmu in it

plus the saturn european pad has to be my fave pad ever, just coz it looks so simple and fits nicely into your hands.

+kisrael · August 18, 2003

Obviously we have here nothing more than a bunch of Sega zombies who wouldn't know innnovation if it came up and bit them in the ass. You are all blinded by nostalgia for an inferior dead system!

Yes. That was a joke. Possibly not one in very good taste, but it was still a joke. So, no one blow a gasket. 'k?

But, like Kisreal and his Nintendo rant, I have to admit I don't understand why anyone would prefer to play a game with a Dreamcast controller over a PS2 controller. But, if the DC pad wins (and it looks as if that is a foregone conclusion at this point), then it completely changes my thoughts on the third tier matchup.

Heh, no I kind of see where you're coming from. Having been there myself.

That said, I think people are...well, voting fanboyishly, or at least judging each controller by the standards of its own era, not of now. Which I guess is cool, because in my opinion controllers have generally been getting better for the past 25 years, with only a few de-evolutions to speak of, so this contest would be a race among the big 3 consoles.

Anyway, I'm surprised by this turnout as well. I do think DC is a better controller, more ergonomic mostly, though I do like the idea of having two symmetrical sticks ala Robotron...it's the positioning that bugs me, along with too many similar buttons and mushiness. Still, I thought dualshock had the stronger support base here.

JagMX · August 18, 2003

Dreamcast all the way - i hate that fukin dualshock controller

Brian R. · August 18, 2003

Obviously we have here nothing more than a bunch of Sega zombies who wouldn't know innnovation if it came up and bit them in the ass. You are all blinded by nostalgia for an inferior dead system!

Yes. That was a joke. Possibly not one in very good taste, but it was still a joke. So, no one blow a gasket. 'k?

But, like Kisreal and his Nintendo rant, I have to admit I don't understand why anyone would prefer to play a game with a Dreamcast controller over a PS2 controller. But, if the DC pad wins (and it looks as if that is a foregone conclusion at this point), then it completely changes my thoughts on the third tier matchup.

Heh, no I kind of see where you're coming from. Having been there myself.

That said, I think people are...well, voting fanboyishly, or at least judging each controller by the standards of its own era, not of now. Which I guess is cool, because in my opinion controllers have generally been getting better for the past 25 years, with only a few de-evolutions to speak of, so this contest would be a race among the big 3 consoles.

Anyway, I'm surprised by this turnout as well. I do think DC is a better controller, more ergonomic mostly, though I do like the idea of having two symmetrical sticks ala Robotron...it's the positioning that bugs me, along with too many similar buttons and mushiness. Still, I thought dualshock had the stronger support base here.

Sega zombies? Wouldn't know innovation? Squeeze me? Baking powder?

How's the VMU for innovation? How 'bout the left and right analog triggers - perfect for racing games? The very design of the controller, which at first glance looks huge, but once in your hands fits comfortably and can be used for long periods of time?

And an inferior dead system? I'd hardly call the Dreamcast "inferior." It may not be produced anymore, but IMO I don't see why the DC couldn't still be a contender.

And I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not judging controllers based on their "era." I'm judging the controllers based on those I've used and held. As I said in my post, my impressions of the PS controller are a big reason why I don't own a PS.

Brian R. · August 18, 2003

double post

P.S. Question about the forums - Why does it take so long for an edited message to go through after I hit sent? I've had it take 3-5 minutes sometimes.

+kisrael · August 18, 2003

Sega zombies? Wouldn't know innovation? Squeeze me? Baking powder?

How's the VMU for innovation? How 'bout the left and right analog triggers - perfect for racing games? The very design of the controller, which at first glance looks huge, but once in your hands fits comfortably and can be used for long periods of time?

And an inferior dead system? I'd hardly call the Dreamcast "inferior." It may not be produced anymore, but IMO I don't see why the DC couldn't still be a contender.

I may have confused you by editing out his smilies...he definately wasn't 100% serious about all aspects of his post.

And I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not judging controllers based on their "era." I'm judging the controllers based on those I've used and held. As I said in my post, my impressions of the PS controller are a big reason why I don't own a PS.

I'm not saying EVERYONE is voting based on "era" but, despite remaining neutral at the time, I guess I really don't believe there's any chance in hell that overall the SMS controller is better than the Xbox, despite barely having used either of them. Newer controllers just have so much more flexiblity...

+kisrael · August 18, 2003

dang, i pressed the wrong button too

Brian R. · August 18, 2003

Newer doesn't equal better. You said newer controllers have more flexibility? Well, somepunk said the PS controller "dose have mjore complexe control to make for a better game playing experiance for me."

"Complex control" is why I voted against it. It's too complex. When you play a video game, you shouldn't have to think about the controller. If you find you do, that's a problem with the controller, or a problem with how the game uses the controller. If you can sit down, hold the controller, and concentrate entirely on the game and what's happening on screen, without having to look at the controller and struggle to remember what button does what, then that's a sign of a good controller, IMO. It's all about having a seamless interface.

And the Atari 2600 controller passes that test. Simple, elegant, gets the job done for the games it had. Not all controllers of its generation did. I never had a problem holding it, or using it. I'd take it over a PS controller any day.

I only vote when I have experience with a controller. That's why I skipped voting in the XBox/SMS vote. I've held the XBox controllers, both, at stores, but never used a SMS controller. Never even seen one.

ApolloBoy · August 18, 2003

I'd go with the Dual Shock. It fits my hands perfectly, and it's very comfortable to hold (at least for me). And I know were all the buttons are, too.

Agent X · August 18, 2003

Well, I didn't explain why I picked the PlayStation Dual Shock last time (over the 5200 controller), so I'll explain why I'm picking it this time over both the Dreamcast and Saturn analog pads.

1. I love the dual analog thumbsticks. They feel good, you can click them in for a third button, and they're in a symmetrical arrangement.

2. It's smaller than the Dreamcast and Saturn analog pads, but still big enough to be held comfortably in the hand. The DC/Saturn pads seem too big, considering they offer less functionality.

3. The digital pad on the Dual Shock rules over the DC digital pad any day of the week. The Saturn analog controller has a better digital pad than the Dual Shock, though.

4. The built-in vibration in the Dual Shock beats any of the add-on vibration packs I've tried for DC (which seem to weigh down the top of the controller, yet provide less "rumble" effect), and clearly beats no vibration at all on the Saturn controllers.

5. It offers the best balance of comfort and functionality ever. I don't have to say "this is the controller to get if you like racing games" or "this is the fighting game controller." The Dual Shock does it all, and does it all respectably well. I'm sure you can find better controllers for racing or flying or fighting games, but they all come up deficient in some other way. This controller has got it pegged.

I like the slots on the DC controller for VMU and other functions. However, much like what I said for the numeric keypad on the Jaguar controller, the usefulness seems to vary wildly. A few games make great use of the added functionality, but most make only nominal use of them. Few games use the VMU screen for anything but putting the title of the game or a cute little icon, and even fewer have anything that's useful in the heat of battle. It's better than nothing (which is what you get with the Dual Shock), but not enough to sway favorability on this one.

I also disagree with kisrael on the controller port issue, as it probably should come into play here since we're rating controllers and not the consoles themselves. I think four ports is only a worthwhile advantage over two if the system actually comes packaged with four controllers. Most systems these days only come with one, so you're on equal ground, since you have to buy all the other controllers separately anyway. Now that we're talking about buying out-of-the-box add-ons, Sony actually wins, since one multitap gives you the potential to plug in five controllers (not just four), and two multitaps give you the potential to plug in eight controllers. If anything, 3DO (which wasn't even entered in this contest) would've smoked this category--the system only had one controller port, but the controllers were daisy-chainable, so you could connect up to eight controllers without having to buy a multitap. I despised most of the 3DO controllers that have ever been brought to market (most of them were poor in design and/or quality), and I didn't like the system itself very much either...but that's one aspect that they really nailed perfectly, and it's a shame no one else has ever mimicked that feature.

I also feel that some people here are drinkin' the Haterade with regard to Sony, but there's not much I can do about that.

I think I've said enough for now. Chalk up my vote for Sony's Dual Shock.

liveinabin · August 18, 2003

Tough call. Both good controllers. The deciding factor for me is this - when I buy a new console I love getting new controllers and the PS2 was a bit of a rotten cheat in that respect. I mean, what's the use of that scary future-box under the TV when the bit I actually hold is exactly the same as my old console?

The DC pad was different enough to the Saturn pad, looked like the absolute future when it was unveiled and the VMU idea was cool - the idea WAS better than the reality, but give me invention over tried-and-tested any day.

The PS3 better have something different - I want a controller that looks like it might have to be fitted nasally.

+kisrael · August 18, 2003

Well, I didn't explain why I picked the PlayStation Dual Shock last time (over the 5200 controller), so I'll explain why I'm picking it this time over both the Dreamcast and Saturn analog pads.

Even though everyone probably thinks I'm the resident flameboy, I really appreciated this levelheaded argument.

1. I love the dual analog thumbsticks. They feel good, you can click them in for a third button, and they're in a symmetrical arrangement.

Like the DC VMU, I find the "third button" a great idea in theory, a just pretty good idea in practice, mostly because I find I have to be too careful not to press the joystick at the same time. Still, given how I find the rest of the buttons too similar in feel (L!/L2, R1/R2, 4 directions) It's nice to have a button that is very different.

5. It offers the best balance of comfort and functionality ever. I don't have to say "this is the controller to get if you like racing games" or "this is the fighting game controller."

Except for fighters where a big bunch of not-terribly-different buttons seems to be a plus, I don't see where the dualshock is that great. And for racing games I think it's pretty bad because of how small a range its analog buttons have.

I also disagree with kisrael on the controller port issue, as it probably should come into play here since we're rating controllers and not the consoles themselves.

"any criteria", pal! ;-) Plus, I really do think its part and parcel of the experience the controller provides. (yeah, that comes dangerously close to "well system X has the best controller because system X has the best games, and I play them with that controller", but still...)

I think four ports is only a worthwhile advantage over two if the system actually comes packaged with four controllers. Most systems these days only come with one, so you're on equal ground, since you have to buy all the other controllers separately anyway. Now that we're talking about buying out-of-the-box add-ons, Sony actually wins, since one multitap gives you the potential to plug in five controllers (not just four), and two multitaps give you the potential to plug in eight controllers. If anything, 3DO

Nah, I think it's all about what game makers are likely to support. Fewer companies are likely to even try for a good multiplayer (by that I mean more than 2 players on one screen) if only a certain small % of the gamers for that platform are going to be able to play 'em. The NES, SNES, and PSX all had multitaps, but none are particularly memorable for their multiplayer games. N64 had 'em ,and it's considered one of THE party game machines, and that's not a coincidence.

Except for some old school games, 4 ports is a reasonable number. I know 8 can be fun for bomberman and what not, but really I often only manage 3 players. Which is still good, because it stops the compeition from always being head to head. zero sum games. (Though at my last party, I coulda stood having some games with maybe 5 or 6 playes, but whatever.)

Anyway, you make some good points, but for me it's not the Haterade...if I could pick, I'd use the DC controller befor the Dualshock for most games.

+kisrael · August 19, 2003

Tough call. Both good controllers. The deciding factor for me is this - when I buy a new console I love getting new controllers and the PS2 was a bit of a rotten cheat in that respect. I mean, what's the use of that scary future-box under the TV when the bit I actually hold is exactly the same as my old console?
.

Nonono...the dualshock 2's buttons were distinctly mushier... ;-)

chrisbid · August 19, 2003

Halftime

ps2 - 4

DC/Sat3D - 9

upset in the making?

:twisted:

holy_fluck · August 19, 2003

I vote the Saturn 3d pad. The dual shock is a good controller as well but I I like the saturns better

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