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Atari Jaguar Mini is real ?

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10 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

I dont trust Nintendo saying it sold 3 to 5.5 million nes mini or snes mini when genesis barely sold 1 million and Nintendo had so many mini shortages. Like 6 million snes mini sold? Idk about that !

Believe it. The Genesis Mini didn't sell well because by the time they released it, the mainstream plug and play market was heavily depressed (and, let's face it, Nintendo stuff is far more popular and relevant, especially since the company/brand is an ongoing concern and a mass market darling). The NES/SNES Mini's both led to and were the last of the peak of the plug and play market (for now - we've had these up and down cycles before). There's a reason why retailers have more or less moved away from having retro corners with all kinds of plug and play consoles, tabletops, and handhelds. We're in the bust times after the boom times. (And certainly the PS Mini being such a bust didn't help things. Corporate retailer buyers DO take note of such things.)

 

Something like The64 and Amiga Mini did and will continue to do just fine because they're relatively modest productions with known audiences that don't need retail shelf space to succeed. That's why when people dream of Jaguar or 3DO Minis or anything similar (Astrocade, Channel F, Vectre, etc.), I tell them don't bother with hitting up mainstream companies, but instead do it in a sustainable manner where you only need to sell what the actual market will bare, be it 250 units or 10,000 units. There's no shame in being responsible or modest with the goals given and certainly it's no slight on the platform. It is what it is.

 

And it goes without saying that one should never use a niche forum heavily populated by a very specific demographic like AtariAge as the judge of anything beyond what IT is. If you did that, for instance, you would think Jaguar was a top console with top games that people are still clamoring for when outside of a venue like this it's at best a curiosity and nothing more, if not an outright joke. It doesn't mean you still can't do amazing things for and within that very specific community of enthusiasts. 

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3 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Something like The64 and Amiga Mini did and will continue to do just fine because they're relatively modest productions with known audiences that don't need retail shelf space to succeed.

So, having said all that, can we get that Atari 800 mini now?

Edited by Draxxon
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11 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Believe it. The Genesis Mini didn't sell well because by the time they released it, the mainstream plug and play market was heavily depressed (and, let's face it, Nintendo stuff is far more popular and relevant, especially since the company/brand is an ongoing concern and a mass market darling). The NES/SNES Mini's both led to and were the last of the peak of the plug and play market (for now - we've had these up and down cycles before). There's a reason why retailers have more or less moved away from having retro corners with all kinds of plug and play consoles, tabletops, and handhelds. We're in the bust times after the boom times. (And certainly the PS Mini being such a bust didn't help things. Corporate retailer buyers DO take note of such things.)

 

Something like The64 and Amiga Mini did and will continue to do just fine because they're relatively modest productions with known audiences that don't need retail shelf space to succeed. That's why when people dream of Jaguar or 3DO Minis or anything similar (Astrocade, Channel F, Vectre, etc.), I tell them don't bother with hitting up mainstream companies, but instead do it in a sustainable manner where you only need to sell what the actual market will bare, be it 250 units or 10,000 units. There's no shame in being responsible or modest with the goals given and certainly it's no slight on the platform. It is what it is.

 

And it goes without saying that one should never use a niche forum heavily populated by a very specific demographic like AtariAge as the judge of anything beyond what IT is. If you did that, for instance, you would think Jaguar was a top console with top games that people are still clamoring for when outside of a venue like this it's at best a curiosity and nothing more, if not an outright joke. It doesn't mean you still can't do amazing things for and within that very specific community of enthusiasts. 

Also with the At Games Sega system, had for the last 10 years produced a similar console in most regar consumers minds, yes sega mini was a better product with a better sound chip, but most people were ok with the cheaper At Games version, that had been out prior.

 

Also all said above is true the mkt, died 2 Christmas ago with the at game frogger type games that came on controllers.

 

At a certain point, these are nastalgia only units have to be in 30 buck range for Christmas presents, truely more than 25 years is pushing it.

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How many people 🤔 you think would buy a Atari Legacy mini with some 2600 5200 7800 ST etc lynx jag and jag cd games in 🌎...1,000? Is that so far fetched? And how many would buy a dreamcast mini or saturn mini... 250,000 to 1 million?

Edited by ataritiger

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4 minutes ago, Pete5125 said:

Also with the At Games Sega system, had for the last 10 years produced a similar console in most regar consumers minds, yes sega mini was a better product with a better sound chip, but most people were ok with the cheaper At Games version, that had been out prior.

 

Also all said above is true the mkt, died 2 Christmas ago with the at game frogger type games that came on controllers.

Note that AtGames hasn't sold the Genesis console with sound bug for several years already. It was replaced by an HDMI-based that no longer was a system on a chip. AtGames did not make the Frogger joystick. They're just one of maybe half a dozen companies that still produce low production runs of plug and play systems. However, like Arcade1Up, who also produces plug and plays, the primary market for AtGames these days is home arcades. That's basically what has replaced plug and plays at retail, although the price points are quite a bit higher, obviously.

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3 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

How many people 🤔 you think would buy a Atari Legacy mini with some 2600 5200 7800 ST etc lynx jag and jag cd games in 🌎...1,000? Is that so far fetched? And how many would buy a dreamcast mini or saturn mini... 250,000 to 1 million?

Kind of a false premise. You're unlikely to be able to easily mix all those different systems in one on a licensed product for a variety of reasons, including controls. I could see an Atari Legacy plug and play with Atati 2600, 7800, and Arcade games and an appropriate controller maybe doing a few hundred thousand units if everything was done and went right. 

 

A Saturn Mini as a novelty first release would likely do a bit better worldwide versus an Atari product that has primarily North American appeal. I could see a Dreamcast doing better still for those reasons and more. I suspect at least one of those will happen eventually, but again, not necessarily anywhere near 7 figures.

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3 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Kind of a false premise. You're unlikely to be able to easily mix all those different systems in one on a licensed product for a variety of reasons, including controls. I could see an Atari Legacy plug and play with Atati 2600, 7800, and Arcade games and an appropriate controller maybe doing a few hundred thousand units if everything was done and went right. 

 

A Saturn Mini as a novelty first release would likely do a bit better worldwide versus an Atari product that has primarily North American appeal. I could see a Dreamcast doing better still for those reasons and more. I suspect at least one of those will happen eventually, but again, not necessarily anywhere near 7 figures.

Ok. So the last successful mini were genesis and tg16 but that 6 million snes mini, man idk. You really think more people bought a snes mini in 2016 or so than original pc engine lifetime (person here said 6 million) or og systems like 4 million Amiga500 in thier lifetimes ? Idk...

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8 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Kind of a false premise. You're unlikely to be able to easily mix all those different systems in one on a licensed product for a variety of reasons, including controls.

6 button usb controller might be all you need, were all those jag keypads utilized? What are other reasons?

8 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I could see an Atari Legacy plug and play with Atati 2600, 7800, and Arcade games and an appropriate controller maybe doing a few hundred thousand units if everything was done and went right. 

Ok.

8 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

 

A Saturn Mini as a novelty first release would likely do a bit better worldwide versus an Atari product that has primarily North American appeal. I could see a Dreamcast doing better still for those reasons and more. I suspect at least one of those will happen eventually, but again, not necessarily anywhere near 7 figures.

Yeah hope market comes back cuz a Saturn mini and dreamcast mini would be dope.

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17 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Note that AtGames hasn't sold the Genesis console with sound bug for several years already. It was replaced by an HDMI-based that no longer was a system on a chip. AtGames did not make the Frogger joystick. They're just one of maybe half a dozen companies that still produce low production runs of plug and play systems. However, like Arcade1Up, who also produces plug and plays, the primary market for AtGames these days is home arcades. That's basically what has replaced plug and plays at retail, although the price points are quite a bit higher, obviously.

So the new AT Games hdmi genesis system sounds as good as official M2 and Sega genesis mini? Idk.

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12 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

 I suspect at least one of those will happen eventually, but again, not necessarily anywhere near 7 figures.

N64 mini might sell 2 million?

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1 hour ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Believe it. The Genesis Mini didn't sell well because by the time they released it, the mainstream plug and play market ...

But it sold 1 million, 7 figures in 2019 or so and 2020 tg16 mini sold same. So there is still some hunger for it. 

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24 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Note that AtGames hasn't sold the Genesis console with sound bug for several years already. It was replaced by an HDMI-based that no longer was a system on a chip. AtGames did not make the Frogger joystick. They're just one of maybe half a dozen companies that still produce low production runs of plug and play systems. However, like Arcade1Up, who also produces plug and plays, the primary market for AtGames these days is home arcades. That's basically what has replaced plug and plays at retail, although the price points are quite a bit higher, obviously.

Because of size and cost you'd think that would be a very limited mkt.  They have already made it through most of the big 80/90s heavy weights.  I guess we still have the 3d fighters and gun cabinets to go.

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13 hours ago, Sauron said:

I wonder if ataritiger and Leeroy ST are the same person. They both have the same habits of posting incomprehensible gibberish and then circling around on themselves when someone refutes them.

 

 

This thought crossed my mind also.

Have they started participating the forums at the same time, I haven't checked.

 

I like to think that "they"or he or she is laughing their/his/her ass off seeing the reponses and debates that they/he/she creates while getting a lot of -evidently undeserved- attention.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

A Saturn Mini as a novelty first release would likely do a bit better worldwide versus an Atari product that has primarily North American appeal. I could see a Dreamcast doing better still for those reasons and more. I suspect at least one of those will happen eventually, but again, not necessarily anywhere near 7 figures.

C64 mini/maxi, Amiga mini, ZX Spectrum mini, etc. appeal to min console collectors, modders and computer heads. There is a lot of software out there for them. For the same reason, I think an Atari 800 mini could work.

 

TG-mini released sloppily and right as the pandemic hit. a lot of people were not using the mail at all. I decided to wait and buy one later and now the price is sky high. Most of the mini systems you could have found easily. That one, not so much.

 

I think that the legends core, legends flashbacks and atari flashback 9/X can play a whole lot of stuff mentioned already. The atari raspberry pi can play a lot also. Other minis and PCs can play all kinds of stuff, but you have to take the time to set it up. Jaguar is a beast to emulate, it is what it is. Add licensing and all the marketing and business stuff, it just doesn't make sense. As a collector, sure I would like to see a mini version of every system throughout history, but its never going to happen. And, I dont think we have seen the last of the mini systems.

 

As time goes on, I can see the nostalgia wave will move, and people will want dreamcast minis, n64 minis, original xbox minis, PS2 minis, etc. Especially as technology gets better and cheaper. But Jaguar is going to miss the bus, same thing for the saturn. Just my opinions.

Edited by Draxxon

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4 minutes ago, Draxxon said:

 

 

As time goes on, I can see the nostalgia wave will move, and people will want dreamcast minis, n65 minis, original xbox minis, PS2 minis, etc. Especially as technology gets better and cheaper. But Jaguar is going to miss the bus, same thing for the saturn. Just my opinions.

Quite possibly. At the same time, Nintendo and Sony favor offering options to purchase games from previous systems and the Xbox stuff is backwards compatible. All of that may negate any need for a limited library plug and play, especially with subscription/streaming options like Xbox Game Pass and what-not. 

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As a player there is something about using a 1st party controller for the mini console. That said, the Jaguar, N64, Dreamcast and OG Xbox are not my most favorites pads. PS2 and Saturn are nice. As time goes on, finding these pads in decent condition becomes harder.

 

On the taboo side of things, It is also getting harder and harder to find "backups" of games or even real copies and it is super time consuming. Splitting your digital rom collection up across dedicated minis is a space saver, time saver, and a money saver. Granted it is emulation. And it is illegal, and so, people don't talk about that. Some buy it for the cheap nostalgia pop of the 100 built in games. Some people just want to put mini systems on a shelf. Others like to hack and mod and load the entire system's library on it, or even more. 

I'm a 90s arcade guy. I see where the nostalgia wave is at. Past tin toys, plastic toys and Atari. We've had Nintendo, Super NES/Genesis/TG-16 and here we are. 90's arcade. It was fueled by fighting games. The 2nd Arcade boom. 8-bit Nintendo is it's whole own thing that never went away since the 80s. Same thing for the FGC scene and their arcade fightsticks. They never really went away either. There was a short lul and then SF4 revived it. But, the Arcades did die right after the 2nd boom. I don't think the dance dance revolution mini arcade cabs are coming anytime soon. Also, over the years many people built home mame machines. The good things about the Legends Ultimate Arcade/Pinball over all the Arcade 1up shit is that it is connected to the internet and you have more than 5 games. But, you can only have so many arcade cabs, mini or full size, before you're out of room. Here is the thing, I've owned a couple cabinets since the 90s and have a MAME cabinet and kids that visit don't give a shit. There was a time everyone thought it was cool and now, kids don't care. They ask for a tablet and roblox. People younger than me have no nostalgia for arcade games because arcades were long gone when they were kids. They don't have memories of feeding them with quarters they begged for from their parents. But they will remember playing xbox and Ps2/3 with their parents.

 

Dreamcast mini I think we will see one day. Or maybe even a little sega naomi arcade cabinet like the astro city mini candy cab they made. Dreamcast/Naomi has one hell of a library, IMO. Saturn, IDK. N64 mini would sell itself.

Edited by Draxxon
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3 hours ago, Isgoed said:

This thought crossed my mind also.

Not mine. Leeroy ST has been here for a lot longer, and their writing styles are completely different. Both are difficult to understand, especially for me, but for completely different reasons (one in regard to content, the other to style) imho.

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Some things are classic and have staying power. They defined a time and never died because of fans. In the 70's it was simplicity, early arcade and Atari 2600. In the 80's it was the colorful NES and the cartoon like quality of mario and others. The 90's was arcade fighting games and wars with home systems with almost arcade perfect ports. 00's is music rhythm games. After that it's all mobile shit. :) 

As far as the home computer minis, I remember there being a lot of buzz around PC gaming during the 90's. I see how the current home computer minis are a lot more of an icon and collectable of a shell, The classic mini pc collectors are a different branch of the casual mini console collectors. It's almost like the older and more obscure the better. They aren't going to want a compaq persario mini and diablo II.

 

3DO, Jaguar, Lynx, Etc. You have to find other solutions. Real Hardware and everdrives, or emulation and real pads. And so, for the people that want to just put it on a shelf... you'll never have minis of every console ever made. For the people that want the nostalgia pop of the 100 built in games, you have to think from the business side, how many other people will want the atari jaguar mini and how many games can be licensed for use? The answer to both questions is "not many" I would guess. What kind of computer is going to run these jaguar games? It's not easy, from what I've seen. So, what's it gonna cost? BTW can the VCS emulate Jaguar? For the people that want to side load it with all the jaguar games and have 1st party style pads, I get it. I do. But you're probably one of few, so figure it out. get a pc that can emulate jaguar and figure out how to get real pads to work and set it all up. Or get a real jaguar and an everdrive. 3D print a case. (Note I really havent tried to emulate jaguar, and I know it's hard. I'm just saying, #FigureItOut

Edited by Draxxon
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On 8/14/2021 at 11:36 PM, Sauron said:

I wonder if ataritiger and Leeroy ST are the same person. They both have the same habits of posting incomprehensible gibberish and then circling around on themselves when someone refutes them.

 

 

When have I been refuted?

 

I get banned from threads when I shut down 10 haters at once though ;) Its ok if they derail threads though :0

 

There were supposedly 3 games for Panther. Panther was said to run 3D polygons. Me and Lost Dragon went over this. I will conceed Cybermorph wasn't straight ported over from Panther, however it could have been a working proof of concept demo.

 

Also my "mini" plans are still on going, talking to the team now.

 

No me and Leeroy aren't the same person.

 

Can you understand my English now? I think I type very good English for being my 2nd language, I'm originally from 🇮🇳 and I just type casually on my galaxy phone. I'm not behind a desktop computer with auto correct like I'm an author posting in a forum.

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12 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

When have I been refuted?

 

I get banned from threads when I shut down 10 haters at once though ;) Its ok if they derail threads though :0

There's something about this forum that seems to attract people who have little to no of a grasp on reality. I'll leave it to you to figure that out on your own.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Sauron said:

There's something about this forum that seems to attract people who have little to no of a grasp on reality. I'll leave it to you to figure that out on your own.

 

 

Actions speak louder than words :) right now 🍲 cooking.

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On 8/1/2021 at 6:04 PM, madman said:

Gotta love the laziness of people these days to not even bother to read.

 

Screen Shot 2021-08-01 at 5.04.08 PM.png

Reading..."are more often than not", but not 100% fake.

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On 8/15/2021 at 12:12 PM, Pete5125 said:

Also with the At Games Sega system, had for the last 10 years produced a similar console in most regar consumers minds, yes sega mini was a better product with a better sound chip, but most people were ok with the cheaper At Games version, that had been out prior.

No people hate the sound of those AT Game Sega systems are known notoriously on youtube and dissed for years now.

Quote

 

Also all said above is true the mkt, died 2 Christmas ago with the at game frogger type games that came on controllers.

Then explain tg16 mini 1 million or so 🤔 sales. In fact since konami just made 1 big batch, the prices are sky high and in demand for mini device in 2021.

Quote

 

At a certain point, these are nastalgia only units have to be in 30 buck range for Christmas presents, truely more than 25 years is pushing it.

Yet vg console mini still sell for $50 to $100. Amiga mini is next. Computer minis are ok if they sell 100,000 like c64 mini but spectrum mini might sell more than Amiga mini 🤔

 

Getting back to vg console mini, a n64 mini would sell millionS. I dont think market is as dead as you think thanks to flashback to nes mini to genesis mini to tg16 mini to micro computer mini now.

 

Also there is Lynx revival right now so heck a lynx mini with bonus homebrew or legacy games could sell 100 to 250,000 units.

Screenshot_20210904-221539_Gallery.jpg

Edited by ataritiger

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1 hour ago, Sauron said:

There's something about this forum that seems to attract people who have little to no of a grasp on reality. I'll leave it to you to figure that out on your own.

 

 

 

Screenshot_20210904-221908_Chrome.jpg

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