Would Atari had been better off if Bushnell hadn´t sold it?

[leech]

3 hours ago, Leeroy ST said:

Well other than crazy guys being put in charge after the merger, Sears also let their auto and maintenance division fall behind while other auto garage brands rushed in front of them.

 

The last recent years however was a scam upfront. Some crook got in a high position hurting Sears and Kmart's reputation while giving trash pay to everyone below department managers. In the DMV area even with experience you were looking $6 an hour full time which hurt the type of employees they did get, among a general shortage. Crap commissions don't make up for it. Then let the stores run in bad condition.

 

Then the same crook had a private firm "support sears" lying to investors and regular joe's that he will so everything to "save" Sears just to slowly have the firm "pay for" Sears brands for itself, in order to "keep them afloat" (hmm?) only to devalue Sears so much his "firm" basically took over the company on the cheap. Same with Kmart didn't even update how the stores were run.

 

The guy technically should be in jail but something tells me that won't be happening.

Sort of sounds like Commodore... filthy greed.

[adamchevy]

I remember going to the Sears in the Red Cliffs Mall in St. George Utah growing up.  I loved walking through there Electronics Department!  I agree that seeing the New VCS for sale there would have been amazing!  There are so many experiences that kids don't have anymore.  Its honestly kind of sad to me.  I went into Gamestop for the first time in a few years a couple weeks back.  I was sad to see how the store has devolved since the last time I visited.  It was like a sad Hollywood video crossed with an even sadder KB toys that was on the verge of going out of business.  Its probably just the location, Vernal Utah, but I immediately remembered when Software, Etc. was in business before in the late 90s.  The store was full of many isles of software for computers, and many different games/consoles.  I don't recall their being sections dedicated to ridiculous kids toys, cheap trinkets, and lame board games.  

 

I think Atari would have still struggled, but Bushnell was more easy going and more of a visionary I think.  He didn't see the Steve Jobs/Apple proposal very well, but I'm not sure most would in his position at the time.  I've heard him lament his decision not to back Steve Jobs and Apple a few times.  I think he would have released the Atari 7800 sooner, but I'm not sure it would have existed.  I think he would have iterated on the VCS alot sooner, but ofcourse he says that in hindsight so who knows really?  I've listened to many interviews that he's done over the years and he has mentioned that he wishes he would have looked for some Venture capital to solve the Cash Flow problems, but worried at the time that they wouldn't have taken his games business very seriously.   With Atari's past track record he certainly could have got it without needing to sell his company.  

 

Its really an interesting thing to think about from time to time as an Atari fan.  Imagine if he also would have taken that Nintendo deal?  

Edited September 26, 2021 by adamchevy

[Leeroy ST]

GameStop's problem is it went all in in the Funko Pop fad right before it was starting to become clear even to the stubborn it was a fad, and the Funko cereal announcement which may or may not have happened.

 

They got a taste of something and decided to pick up the pace on Funko's and other collectables, shirts, small random things near the cashier, some GS even sold candy at the register.

 

Basically they wanted to be a cross between a Best buy, a Gas station, and a convenient store around Rite aid style.

 

Completely ignoring it wasn't working until the Funko sales slowed. You can sometimes find stacks of them on the floor at some GameStop's. Even more in the back if you get visual of it 

 

But then someone made some moves along with the new CEO and manipulated the value of GS in the market....

 

Lots of crooks in order to cook the books.

[+x=usr(1536)]

2 hours ago, Leeroy ST said:

GameStop's problem is it went all in in the Funko Pop fad right before it was starting to become clear even to the stubborn it was a fad, and the Funko cereal announcement which may or may not have happened.

Gamestop's problems ran (and still run) much deeper than going all-in on foetal alcohol syndrome dolls.

 

It's a brick-and-mortar that still hasn't fully figured out how to continue existing in a world of digital delivery, and it's one that has had a succession of crap executive management that seeks to bail as soon as it becomes clear to them that they don't want to be left holding the imploding potato when it finally does go under.

 

Everyone at a C-level in retail has seen what happened to Radio Shack, Sears, and K-Mart.  They don't want the corporation that they're responsible for to be the next one on the list, but the writing's very obviously on the wall for a good chunk of retail as well as traditional retail property (e.g., malls) and has been for some time.

 

When you're the head of a company that may no longer exist in three to five years, this tends to discourage developing a long-term market strategy.  It also makes it difficult to retain employees at all levels, including executive management.  And without clear leadership or a vision for the future, the company is just waiting to become the next Radio Shack, Sears, or K-Mart.

[leech]

Gamestop... the place that sell used games for new game prices and new games for a considerable mark up!  Cheaper to pay for Amazon Prime and get the game a few days later as they have sales.

 

Physical games sadly are on their way out.  I am betting that the next gen consoles just drop the option for a physical drive altogether.

[Leeroy ST]

3 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Gamestop's problems ran (and still run) much deeper than going all-in on foetal alcohol syndrome dolls.

 

 

 

But them diving all into that and ignoring obvious signs it wasn't working drained whatever safety nets they had so that means, less cash to come up with more realistic strategies, long term or otherwise.

 

GameStop's are still closing, but the market manipulation and strange overhype for the CEO has stopped people from paying attention to that.

 

Not to mention they are still overcharging for product and giving you pennies for trade ins which they resell at 10x the value. If you trade for cash, if you do store credit you get nickels instead of pennies.

 

Unless you're trading in a popular phone, but then why would you accept $200 at GS when you can get $600-700 for that phone elsewhere?

 

So nothing has changed outside stacks of clutter on the floor. No change no gain.

 

Jjjjjj

 

2 hours ago, leech said:

Gamestop... the place that sell used games for new game prices and new games for a considerable mark up!  Cheaper to pay for Amazon Prime and get the game a few days later as they have sales.

 

Physical games sadly are on their way out.  I am betting that the next gen consoles just drop the option for a physical drive altogether.

You get a "discount" with an expensive membership on those used games. Like a while $2-3!!!!

 

Also sometimes they reseal good condition used games and sell them as new. Quality and morality only at GameStop.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Leeroy ST

[+x=usr(1536)]

8 hours ago, Leeroy ST said:

But them diving all into that and ignoring obvious signs it wasn't working drained whatever safety nets they had so that means, less cash to come up with more realistic strategies, long term or otherwise.

Yes.  It was all the fault of the Funko Pops.  Those distended little bastards planned this out from the beginning.

 

I'm telling you: those fuckers move around on their own in the darkness.  I've seen it, and what they did to Gamestop is just a drop in the ocean compared to what they have in store for us.  Think of the worst slasher movie gore you've ever seen and forget it completely because there is no comparison between it and the bloody, bloody slaughter in our beds they have planned for us.

 

Mark my words: THIS IS THEIR PLAN.

[Leeroy ST]

14 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Yes.  It was all the fault of the Funko Pops.  Those distended little bastards planned this out from the beginning.

No one said this but you knew that. 

[CapitanClassic]

On 9/26/2021 at 8:53 AM, leech said:

Gamestop... the place that sell used games for new game prices and new games for a considerable mark up!  Cheaper to pay for Amazon Prime and get the game a few days later as they have sales.

 

Physical games sadly are on their way out.  I am betting that the next gen consoles just drop the option for a physical drive altogether.

Having worked at a Gamestop as a 3rd key (and looking at the books), I can tell you that the move from physical games to digital games will kill Gamestop. Even back when mall traffic was much higher, GameStop made most of their money during the Christmas season. The rest of the months, after mall rent, employee pay, and other overhead, a store would be lucky to break even.

 

The big money maker for Gamestop is used games. While the percentage of used game sales is much less (maybe 25%, corporate wanted it to be 50%), the company really was pushing their used sales and Game Informer magazine subscriptions, and trade-ins. The reason was that used sales markup was 50%-80%, so a new release that sold for $50 (PS2), we would pay $20-$25 store credit (maybe only $20 cash), and would resale for $45 (80% markup). A new release that we purchased would cost the store about $45 (10% markup), and after figuring in shipping, the amount of new games you would have to sell to make the same amount of money was insane. The GI subscription was essentially a loyalty program to get you back in the store to trade in your games and get us more stock to sell.

 

With games going digital, used games are becoming a thing of the past. All the overhead necessary to run a brick-n-morter store just doesn’t make it economically possible to run long term. Gamestop like Best Buy needs something to bring in customers that they cannot get from just buying the game off Amazon. One of those things used to be there excellent return policy, “if you don’t like it, return it” (still do this?). I think structuring their store around classic games (stuff 15-20 years old), with game systems setup around to store to try before you buy, might be a better focus (like Funcoland (GME) stores branding). They need to run game tournaments, and maybe have play rooms where you can play unlimited used games, for an hourly fee (our stores used to be glorified daycares anyway).

 

 

[Leeroy ST]

3 hours ago, CapitanClassic said:

Having worked at a Gamestop as a 3rd key (and looking at the books), I can tell you that the move from physical games to digital games will kill Gamestop. Even back when mall traffic was much higher, GameStop made most of their money during the Christmas season. The rest of the months, after mall rent, employee pay, and other overhead, a store would be lucky to break even.

 

The big money maker for Gamestop is used games. While the percentage of used game sales is much less (maybe 25%, corporate wanted it to be 50%), the company really was pushing their used sales and Game Informer magazine subscriptions, and trade-ins. The reason was that used sales markup was 50%-80%, so a new release that sold for $50 (PS2), we would pay $20-$25 store credit (maybe only $20 cash), and would resale for $45 (80% markup). A new release that we purchased would cost the store about $45 (10% markup), and after figuring in shipping, the amount of new games you would have to sell to make the same amount of money was insane. The GI subscription was essentially a loyalty program to get you back in the store to trade in your games and get us more stock to sell.

 

With games going digital, used games are becoming a thing of the past. All the overhead necessary to run a brick-n-morter store just doesn’t make it economically possible to run long term. Gamestop like Best Buy needs something to bring in customers that they cannot get from just buying the game off Amazon. One of those things used to be there excellent return policy, “if you don’t like it, return it” (still do this?). I think structuring their store around classic games (stuff 15-20 years old), with game systems setup around to store to try before you buy, might be a better focus (like Funcoland (GME) stores branding). They need to run game tournaments, and maybe have play rooms where you can play unlimited used games, for an hourly fee (our stores used to be glorified daycares anyway).

 

 

There is still a large crowd that wants uncontrolled Used games (look at MS backlash before Xbox One released) so I wouldn't say used games is the problem but that GameStop's strategy hasn't really changed in how they deal with used games and other money makers like subs and trade ins. I mean it's been basically the same for a damn long time.

 

The mobile gameing and phone contract idea would have been somewhat feasible if they didn't half ass it.

 

As far as I'm seeing the hype for the new CEO to "turn things around" has yet to come to fruition, I don't see him having a plan or implementing new strategies yet. Gamestop will likely crash and burn just because they don't seem to be trying new strategies that can help the company in the long term. While at the same time doing nothing to recover their still rapidly decreasing public reputation.

 

I think maybe a subscription for a month or year, that allows you a set number of used games a month you have to return, and a discount if you want to buy individual games outright.

 

Like combining Best buy/redbox with their old used game plan.

 

Look at Gamepass, that's a slightly different idea (that likely may not make money itself alone) but a retail version following a similar idea while incentivizing trade-ins and subs could work. They need to add tiers and VALUE to their subscriptions 

 

Right now what does GS Pro give you? Just $3 discount on newer used games and a game informer magazine?

 

 

[Matt_B]

I can't see physical games ever dying entirely.

 

There will always be a collector market and, if anything, they'd be much better served if the majority of customers switched to downloads because there's an opportunity to reverse the trend towards boring packaging and minimal contents.

 

Unfortunately, that's not good for the likes of Gamestop, as they really need something that'll sell to the mass market.

[+x=usr(1536)]

11 hours ago, Leeroy ST said:

No one said this but you knew that. 

That is precisely the sort of thing that someone in the service of the Funko Pops would say.

 

What kind of deal did you cut with them?  Free merch?  Loitering rights at the local Gamestop, complete with carte blanche to irritate the staff?  Command of the camps that humanity's last survivors will be marshalled into as slaves to serve their grotesque conquerors?

 

Thanks for betraying humanity.  When your masters turn on you and devour your throat in the middle of the night, your inability to scream will be comfort to those of us who refuse to not fight.

[Leeroy ST]

12 hours ago, Matt_B said:

I can't see physical games ever dying entirely.

 

There will always be a collector market and, if anything, they'd be much better served if the majority of customers switched to downloads because there's an opportunity to reverse the trend towards boring packaging and minimal contents.

 

Unfortunately, that's not good for the likes of Gamestop, as they really need something that'll sell to the mass market.

The Best Buy club is iffy but it worked in Best Buys favor for awhile in terms of profitability, so I don't think the used game or even new physical game sales "declining" is really GameStop's issue.

 

If anything Best Buy just showed GS was simply poorly run and managed 

[leech]

14 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

That is precisely the sort of thing that someone in the service of the Funko Pops would say.

 

What kind of deal did you cut with them?  Free merch?  Loitering rights at the local Gamestop, complete with carte blanche to irritate the staff?  Command of the camps that humanity's last survivors will be marshalled into as slaves to serve their grotesque conquerors?

 

Thanks for betraying humanity.  When your masters turn on you and devour your throat in the middle of the night, your inability to scream will be comfort to those of us who refuse to not fight.

Bow down before the might of the Funko Pops!

[NoBloodyXLOrE]

I can't really speak to whether the sale to Warner killed Atari, since it injected a lot of necessary capital that enabled the launch of the 2600, jumpstarting the companies' other ventures, but what I can say mostly killed the company was the Atari 8-bit computer line. I say this as someone who loves the line, but the way it was done was just wrong.

Desires for the system to be seen as a "real computer" discouraged Atari from marketing it as a games machine, instead promoting its productivity abilities, where it was no better than an Apple II. Competition between the console and computer divisions prevented the 5200 from being all it could have been, not allowing for compatibility with the computer line or even a keyboard attachment/addon with BASIC cartridge (even if that would've undercut the 400/600XL), when really, the Atari 8-bit computers should've been positioned as high-end game consoles with the ability to be upgraded into home computers from the get-go. Not releasing the Atari XL series soon enough (and of course not marketing that for games) also prevented them from competing with the C64, which was cheaper than an 800XL when that launched for comparable capabilities, though the Atari had a better library at the time.

The sale to Jack Tramiel, while it did lower costs on their 8-bit computers with the XE series, also killed the Atari 7800 with excess delays, along with permanently killing other projects like the 1400XL and 1450XLD (which to be honest probably would've failed anyway) and the 1850XLD (being based on the Amiga, this had a chance).

[Matt_B]

9 hours ago, Leeroy ST said:

The Best Buy club is iffy but it worked in Best Buys favor for awhile in terms of profitability, so I don't think the used game or even new physical game sales "declining" is really GameStop's issue.

 

If anything Best Buy just showed GS was simply poorly run and managed

Running a discount club to drive sales works for Best Buy because they sell lots of other crap, and getting customers through the door is always a win for them. Someone might go to buy a game and come away with a toaster, for example.

 

For Gamestop it's just not going to work as well because their only viable product is games, and it's a declining market; most of it is heading in the direction of downloads and subscriptions. Finding something else to sell was necessary to their survival; it's just that collectable figurines wasn't it.

[pacman000]

So, would GameStop be better off if Nolan Bushnell was at its helm?

[Lord Mushroom]

What I find strange about Gamestop is that they were not selling retro consoles (like the NES mini). At least they weren´t here in Norway (according to my brother).

[leech]

56 minutes ago, Lord Mushroom said:

What I find strange about Gamestop is that they were not selling retro consoles (like the NES mini). At least they weren´t here in Norway (according to my brother).

At this point, Gamestop being owned by the Illuminati is one of the few reasons I can think of why they haven't gone under.

Edited September 29, 2021 by leech

[zzip]

10 hours ago, Lord Mushroom said:

What I find strange about Gamestop is that they were not selling retro consoles (like the NES mini). At least they weren´t here in Norway (according to my brother).

They do sell the new VCS though, but only online. 

[Leeroy ST]

7 hours ago, zzip said:

They do sell the new VCS though, but only online. 

This also applied for older games and consoles (in most cases).

 

Retro stores with certain business models seem to do well. Gamestop might do better if they replace their funcos and sailor moon pillows with games across consoles. Be a hub for gaming, have more stores have more than one demo unit instead of just a few. 

[leech]

2 hours ago, Leeroy ST said:

This also applied for older games and consoles (in most cases).

 

Retro stores with certain business models seem to do well. Gamestop might do better if they replace their funcos and sailor moon pillows with games across consoles. Be a hub for gaming, have more stores have more than one demo unit instead of just a few. 

They should hire some electronics repair guys and then have people bring in their retro stuff to fix, or sell for bits and maybe have them fixed and resold.  Get the nostalgia feeling of going into an old brick and mortar shop...

[Matt_B]

13 hours ago, zzip said:

They do sell the new VCS though, but only online. 

They sure know how to pick a winning product.

[DavidD]

On 9/26/2021 at 11:46 AM, Leeroy ST said:

You get a "discount" with an expensive membership on those used games. Like a while $2-3!!!!

 

Actually, buying the $20 membership is good for one reason -- you get 12 months of $5 off coupons.  Each coupon can be used in store for a $5 game card.

 

Essentially, they've sold me $60 in digital games for $20.

 

...

 

I don't see how this benefits them, but it might be that not everyone is as cheap as me.

 

(Also, the much-hinted-at NES game library genre analysis IS coming... work has been hectic over the past few weeks.)

Edited September 30, 2021 by DavidD

[agradeneu]

2 hours ago, DavidD said:

 

 

 

(Also, the much-hinted-at NES game library genre analysis IS coming... work has been hectic over the past few weeks.)

Not sure if this is necessary - reasonable people already know this, and you won't convince entrenched ignorants anyway.