How does the Saturn version of Tempest 2000 compare to the original?

[+Biff Burgertime]

Yo dudes,

 

I just bought a Saturn. Never owned (or played) a Jag, but am quite familiar with the console and its games library due to a few years of curiosity. I've lived vicariously through others' experiences, such as Master-Cast TV's Jag reviews. I'd love a Jag of my own and figured maybe I'd dive in one the JagGD hit the scene... but no, cost of entry is still far beyond what I'm willing to pay for such a novelty.

 

As for Tempest 2000, I didn't realize the Saturn version retains the original title! Figured it would be Tempest X3 like the PS1 version. I've never played X, but iirc they changed some shit around to be distinct from the Jag version. Since the Saturn version is simply called Tempest 2000, it begs the question:

 

Are the Jaguar/Saturn versions pretty much the same game? What, if anything, is different?

[sirlynxalot]

I've played both versions. I think the saturn version has a better framerate, but overall, it looks and plays like the same game.  I think I've heard people on this forum mention slight differences, like occasional issues with collision detection, but as a casual player you probably wouldn't notice.

[Lost Monkey]

Saturn version looks and plays well - it runs smoother and doesn't drop frames like the Jaguar.  Having said that, there is something "off" about it and I prefer the Jaguar version.  It could be in my head (i.e.  maybe I am used to the feel of the Jaguar version), but it seems the Jaguar T2K is more precise and/or tweaked for game play.  

[+jeremiahjt]

There is a thread here where I believe Austin goes indepth on the differences. Players like me would never notice, but Tempest fans can definitely tell that there are some changes.

[ataritiger]

Is there any jag game that has a great fps ? Its like 12 to 29 frames for jag any 30 or 60 non 16 bit ports like actual 32 bit or 64 bit games doing 30fps?

[Atari_JaguarVCS]

Jaguar version is definitely better although it does drop frames the Jaguar version plays and controls better!. I’d highly recommend checking out Austin’s play through of the Jaguar,Ps1,Saturn versions on his YouTube channel I think it’s on G&T Afterdark, I don’t think he even made it to the end of the Saturn version he said it felt off if I recall but the guy done a complete sit down and unlocked beastly mode on the Jaguar version what a good stream that was to watch lol. 

[agradeneu]

2 hours ago, ataritiger said:

Is there any jag game that has a great fps ? Its like 12 to 29 frames for jag any 30 or 60 non 16 bit ports like actual 32 bit or 64 bit games doing 30fps?

Yes. A lot of 2D games have 60 Hz standard, but 3D is a totally different story.

15 - 20 FPS was quite good before the PS arrived. The PS1 was able to run 3D games at locked 30FPS fully textured, nothing the Jaguar (or 32X or 3DO) was able to match.

Usually you have something between 10-20 FPS for a Jaguar 3D game. Only the best games run north of 20 FPS.

 

For Tempest 2000: I think Jeff Minter used alot of CRY modes unique shading and color techniques. I wonder how they translated that to the Saturn. Possibly it runs at 256 color mode like the PC version?  

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by agradeneu

[+Biff Burgertime]

12 hours ago, jeremiahjt said:

There is a thread here where I believe Austin goes indepth on the differences. Players like me would never notice, but Tempest fans can definitely tell that there are some changes.

 

1 hour ago, Atari_JaguarVCS said:

Jaguar version is definitely better although it does drop frames the Jaguar version plays and controls better!. I’d highly recommend checking out Austin’s play through of the Jaguar,Ps1,Saturn versions on his YouTube channel I think it’s on G&T Afterdark, I don’t think he even made it to the end of the Saturn version he said it felt off if I recall but the guy done a complete sit down and unlocked beastly mode on the Jaguar version what a good stream that was to watch lol. 

Thanks for the recommendation, a quick search lead me to this thread... very in depth indeed!

[ataritiger]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Biff Burgertime said:

 

Thanks for the recommendation, a quick search lead me to this thread... very in depth indeed!

So is there ok loading times on saturn version? Guess pro for jag is cart and rare music in a good game lol but again not full fps and saturn better fps but con is load times?

 

Edit : Grammer ? 

Edited August 7, 2021 by ataritiger

[+Cafeman]

Yeah Austin's play throughs were eye-opening to me. I always played and enjoyed the Saturn version.  From what I recall, the Saturn version totally omits the 'balloon style' enemies, it has collision glitches (an enemy in a different lane can shoot you at times), it omits one of the types of bonus rounds, and drops sound FX.  Once seeing the Jag version, the Saturn loses a bit of luster. But this really is only noticeable if you play trying to beat the entire game, if you can't last more than 20 levels you might not really notice these things . 

[ataritiger]

21 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

Yes. A lot of 2D games have 60 Hz standard, but 3D is a totally different story.

15 - 20 FPS was quite good before the PS arrived. The PS1 was able to run 3D games at locked 30FPS fully textured, nothing the Jaguar (or 32X or 3DO) was able to match.

Usually you have something between 10-20 FPS for a Jaguar 3D game. Only the best games run north of 20 FPS.

 

For Tempest 2000: I think Jeff Minter used alot of CRY modes unique shading and color techniques. I wonder how they translated that to the Saturn. Possibly it runs at 256 color mode like the PC version?  

 

 

 

Thank you. What is jag tempest fps 24? Guessing saturn is 30 to 60

[LordKraken]

29 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

- For Tempest 2000: I think Jeff Minter used alot of CRY modes unique shading and color techniques. 

- What is jag tempest fps 24? 

 

Good thing @Yak is around, he might be able to shed some lights on that  Also I'm wondering, was optimization a big concern in those days? Or were the deadlines too tight? As agradeneu rightly said, the most technically impressive games of the jag (cybermorph, AvP, iron soldier) seem to run at 10-12 fps, T2k beeing one of the few exceptions with a higher frame rate.

 

(now from my experience, it's generally hard for any coder to explain code they wrote a year ago, so we might ask too much from you Jeff  ).

Edited August 7, 2021 by LordKraken

[agradeneu]

1 hour ago, LordKraken said:

 

Good thing @Yak is around, he might be able to shed some lights on that  Also I'm wondering, was optimization a big concern in those days? Or were the deadlines too tight? As agradeneu rightly said, the most technically impressive games of the jag (cybermorph, AvP, iron soldier) seem to run at 10-12 fps, T2k beeing one of the few exceptions with a higher frame rate.

 

(now from my experience, it's generally hard for any coder to explain code they wrote a year ago, so we might ask too much from you Jeff  ).

I said something like 15 -20 for the best examples.  I think Marc Rosocha (Eclipse coder) said Iron Soldier runs max 30 FPS, but is averaging around 20. It surely runs alot better than AvP and Cybermorph, both are often below double digits! 

Battlesphere runs faster than 20 FPS for sure, the coders once claimed 60FPS max, 30 FPS average.

So, there are fast 3D games on Jaguar, but not fully textured like PS1.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by agradeneu

[ataritiger]

Was checkered flag textured a little? Graphically imo its up there with virtua racing deluxe. But damn they rushed it with meh tunes and not finished steering even steer rom fix dont help. Its like any 3d jag game was like snes fx1 chip 12fps to 24

[+cubanismo]

Yeah I don't understand any complaints about the graphics in checkered flag personally. It looks great, especially compared to contemporary 3D racing titles. Just can't stop slamming my car into walls is all.

[JagChris]

I like the weather effects.

[Austin]

On 8/27/2021 at 11:46 PM, cubanismo said:

Yeah I don't understand any complaints about the graphics in checkered flag personally. It looks great, especially compared to contemporary 3D racing titles. Just can't stop slamming my car into walls is all.

Agreed, for the time I think CF looks fine. It's just the performance and [lack of] control.

[+Biff Burgertime]

My original Saturn had some issues so I'm just getting around to T2K now that my hardware situation's sorted out.

 

It's great! Obviously I've seen all the praise it gets but wasn't sure what to expect. Great game period, or great Jaguar game? (Great game) Either way I wasn't sure how much I'd enjoy it. I grew up with NES/Super Mario Bros so I tend to favor games with an ending, something you can finish rather than playing for score. I'm pretty sure T2K has an end screen but it's still very much a high score style arcade game.

 

But none of that matters, it's addictive as hell. Each time I die it just fires me up to try again. Love it!

 

It has me wondering what other "Jaguar games" may exist on other platforms that I wasn't aware of. I took a quick look and found one: Attack of the Mutant Penguins, which also came out on DOS. I've got a Win98 PC sitting in my closet I started setting up for gaming but never finished, so maybe my curiosity will help get that done at some point.