I'm looking to make my first intellivision game and trying to gauge design limits

[8bitwidgets.com]

Hi everyone, so I have an idea for a game (famous last words)  It would at it's core basically be a kind of "spy hunter" game.  So taking games I know and love from my intellivision I went straight to Bump n' Jump which not only shares the vertical movement with cars, but collisions would be a thing though not as exaggerated as in BnJ.  

 

So one of the biggest first questions overall would be how many vehicles could i get on the screen realistically.  I'm actually looking to use intybasic so that might be another limiting factor (not sure how great performance is with that vs. straight assembler)..  

 

I'm happy to go into more about the game, but maybe that's TMI..  I'm concerned I may just need too much on the screen for an intellivision..  i may have to strip down the concept..  so knowing limits will be the first step to not make a game the hardware couldn't possibly deliver on.  

 

Bonus question.  Are there tools to convert images from say.. png or other formats that could translate to the raw code needed.. i'm thinking of full screne cut scenes / intro story graphics that could get kinda complex to fully realize through strict code..  maybe there are clever low tech approaches other artists have used to keep things straight?  maybe tools like intybasic have something that does this.  

 

Thanks!

Caleb

[+intellivotion]

a Spy Hunter-like game on Intellivision is very much missing and you have all my moral support.

 

Having said that I suggest looking for qualified technical support in the Intellivision programming forum

 

[8bitwidgets.com]

thank you for that link!  I'll check it out.  It's going to be something special if I can get the number of sprites I need out of it..   If I can't get what I need, I can make a lighter version..  and maybe see what a colecovision + super game module could do.  though i don't have the super game module..  i'm on a waiting list like the LTO multicart.. heh.  

[+cmadruga]

Quick answers:

 

- 8 sprites maximum. But you may be able to multiplex or use background graphics depending on how you approach it.

- Intycolor is a program that allows you to convert BMP screens into Intybasic code.

 

My advice:

 

- start with fixed screen experiments rather than stuff that needs scrolling

- port simple stuff at the beginning, rather than trying to come up with original designs. 

- consider buying Oscar's programming books.

- I would definitely go to the Programming sub forum for further discussion.

- I saw a Spy Hunter screen a while ago, it may already be in production.

Edited August 18, 2021 by cmadruga

[carlsson]

Yes, Rev posted some pics of an unknown origin in May 2020.

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/307275-yet-another-dr-ports-intellivision-homebrew-release-coming/?do=findComment&comment=4547588

 

Combined with the WIP video you linked to in the programming section, it is hard to tell who is actively working on something and what are just mock-ups.

 

Actually the WIP reminded me a little of my idea for a similar game, which is perfectly free for anyone to steal or modify.

[8bitwidgets.com]

@cmadruga as a game developer (using Construct 3) and developed lots of games with real coders, I know I'll want to start simple, but my main thing is knowing i'm not trying to make something utterly impossible before i dive into learning this platform.  I will definitely work up to it.  

 

i've ordered the first book oscar has and i'll get the second one when i'm done with that.  Probably sooner..  

 

I've started a thread in the appropriate forum!  going over there next.  

 

Spy hunter shots look great, thanks @carlsson for linking that.  Definitely cool. A great encouragement.. though seeing it in motion would be even better to know these screen shots don't run at 1fps.  

 

 

[+Lathe26]

7 hours ago, Caleb Garner said:

...  I'm actually looking to use intybasic so that might be another limiting factor (not sure how great performance is with that vs. straight assembler)...

IntyBASIC had pretty good performance since it is compiled, not interpreted.  You can also mix assembly into your IntyBASIC to speed up any slow sections of code.  Yes, hand-crafted assembly is faster, but IntyBASIC should be able to do the job.

[+DZ-Jay]

10 hours ago, Caleb Garner said:

@cmadruga as a game developer (using Construct 3) and developed lots of games with real coders, I know I'll want to start simple, but my main thing is knowing i'm not trying to make something utterly impossible before i dive into learning this platform.  I will definitely work up to it.  

 

 

You know, some of the best effects have come to life precisely because the programmer was too naive to know it was not possible to do so.

 

Like @cmadruga, I would recommend to just start small and see where it goes.  Who knows, you may discover that your vision -- or something very close to it -- is possible after all.

 

10 hours ago, Caleb Garner said:

i've ordered the first book oscar has and i'll get the second one when i'm done with that.  Probably sooner..  

 

I've started a thread in the appropriate forum!  going over there next.  

 

Spy hunter shots look great, thanks @carlsson for linking that.  Definitely cool. A great encouragement.. though seeing it in motion would be even better to know these screen shots don't run at 1fps.  

 

 

I think those screenshots are just mock ups, but they are rendered on a real Intellivision.  They should serve to illustrate how a game like that can be done on the Intellivision.

 

   dZ.

[+DZ-Jay]

9 hours ago, Lathe26 said:

IntyBASIC had pretty good performance since it is compiled, not interpreted.  You can also mix assembly into your IntyBASIC to speed up any slow sections of code.  Yes, hand-crafted assembly is faster, but IntyBASIC should be able to do the job.

To me, the biggest performance difference comes from IntyBASIC's reliance on direct memory access. Almost every statement and expression evaluation requires reading from and writing to RAM; whereas in assembly, we try to maximize register utilization and minimize memory access due to its expensive nature.

 

Now, there are very good reasons why IntyBASIC works that way, and it has proven to be a minimal price to pay for its flexibility and versatility; but when I look at the compiled assembly code directly I can't help but cringe a little.

 

   dZ.

Edited August 19, 2021 by DZ-Jay

[8bitwidgets.com]

1 hour ago, DZ-Jay said:

because the programmer was too naive to know it was not possible to do so.

absolutely true..  i'm pretty naive =D  but yea i think i'm seeing how it could be achieved.. just have to "explore the space" in a christopher walkin voice.. 

 

I'll get into the book and see where it takes me.  i have to say that i do find the limitations actually great.  i've always felt in music i was more creative when i was given limitations..  which is why i moved away from modern software / plugins and back to hardware in my studio..  with infinite possibilities it was kinda overwhelming and distracting rather than productive.  of course too much hardware can have the same effect.. working on that..  lol.. 

 

@DZ-Jay as for optimization and such, i can definitely see crossing that bridge when it comes.  if i hit a performance wall that is due to that kind of ram / read-write operation, it probably means i'm familiar enough with the intybasic stuff to be able to understand how to approach assembly stuff..  

[+DZ-Jay]

35 minutes ago, Caleb Garner said:

absolutely true..  i'm pretty naive =D  but yea i think i'm seeing how it could be achieved.. just have to "explore the space" in a christopher walkin voice.. 

 

I'll get into the book and see where it takes me.  i have to say that i do find the limitations actually great.  i've always felt in music i was more creative when i was given limitations..  which is why i moved away from modern software / plugins and back to hardware in my studio..  with infinite possibilities it was kinda overwhelming and distracting rather than productive.  of course too much hardware can have the same effect.. working on that..  lol.. 

I agree.  The severe constraints tend to bring about creative solutions that turn out to be superior than an everything-but-the-kitchen-sink approach.  That is true in any artistic endeavor -- in music and in video games.

 

Quote

 

@DZ-Jay as for optimization and such, i can definitely see crossing that bridge when it comes.  if i hit a performance wall that is due to that kind of ram / read-write operation, it probably means i'm familiar enough with the intybasic stuff to be able to understand how to approach assembly stuff..  

That is my experience.  That's why my typical response to questions about the limitations  is not "these are the limits," but rather "what are you trying to do? And let us see how we can get you there."

 

Hardware limitations are the walls that constrain us, not the design objectives.  As with any other activity, physical, mental, or virtual; you first try to see how far you can go, and stop or turn when you hit a wall.  The walls may circumscribe your domain, true; but only at the very limit of its boundaries. 

 

    dZ.

Edited August 19, 2021 by DZ-Jay

[8bitwidgets.com]

yea i'm really excited about this.  i'm going to work on some sprites and take the storyboard we made for the 3D game and see how to adapt those graphics much like how “Anthropomorphic Force” did their intro.  

 

 

[IMBerzerk]

Might be too late for this suggestion... but there has always been a demand for a new/updated version of AD&D Cloudy mountain.  Using similar graphics and gameplay.. or something totally new.

 

Naturally... without the TSR endorsement.  (unless it's possible)

[8bitwidgets.com]

yea an RPG would be really cool.  there have been some made.  One that I saw Oscar was working on.  Loved AD&D.