My dad left me his computer collection and I don't know where to start

[T.A.P.]

I've been getting lots of people asking about the 1200XL. What makes them so desirable? I thought it was supposed to be one that was less compatible with stuff back in the day, and all this talk of bad keyboards seems like they'd be a pain to deal with.

Edited August 21, 2021 by T.A.P.

[grant74]

This is true, there are some incompatible games etc, but I think it's the novelty that it's a bit rare, and a lot of us think it's a good looking old computer. If a little on the large side! 

[Faicuai]

29 minutes ago, T.A.P. said:

I thought it was supposed to be one that was less compatible with stuff back in the day.

That's correct, it is as closed as the 400,  and less compatible than the 800.

 

Even for mods purposes, depending on the the size of the ROM sockets fitted in factory, it may imply deeper surgery when attempting to fit a U1MB inside.

 

However, it was produced in much, much lower volumes, as it was meant to be replaced by the 1400XL, which eventually got trumped by the 800XL. So that means it is highly collectible.

 

[Pokeypy]

1 hour ago, T.A.P. said:

I've been getting lots of people asking about the 1200XL. What makes them so desirable?

Not much really (in my opinion). Just that they're rare as unicorns. Because their production was canceled quickly (in favour of the 800XL).

Edited August 21, 2021 by Pokeypy

[+Allan]

@T.A.P. If you have disk software and manuals, consider archiving your software onto modern PCs. Although a lot of software has been archived already, there is still a lot that hasn't. Some disks have copy-protection and you need special hardware to archive, but a lot of disks don't, so you can easily copy them to PCs with any of various modern SIO2PC devices. Looking forward to some pictures.

[T.A.P.]

I just rounded up all the disk drives I could find at the moment. I could have sworn there was an 810 around here somewhere, but it hasn't surfaced yet.

 

I also found another 800XL and a second (!) 130XE.

[T.A.P.]

I will post a few pictures this afternoon when I get home from work

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, Pokeypy said:

Not much really (in my opinion). Just that they're rare as unicorns. Because their production was canceled quickly (in favour of the 800XL).

Ehh, I wouldn't say rare as unicorns.  Low production volume, certainly, but they are out there and crop up reasonably regularly.

[+x=usr(1536)]

2 hours ago, T.A.P. said:

I've been getting lots of people asking about the 1200XL. What makes them so desirable? I thought it was supposed to be one that was less compatible with stuff back in the day,

Of all the A8 machines, the 1200XL had what was almost certainly the smallest production run of them all - around 100,000 machines, IIRC.  At the time they were current, they were panned for being too expensive (the 800 was still in production and could be bought from the same retailer for less than a 1200XL cost) and the software compatibility issues.  They also lacked the PBI that the 600XL and 800XL introduced, and while it is possible to graft one on, you'll also need to swap out the 1200XL's OS ROMs for a set of 800XL ROMs as the 1200XL's ROMs don't have the code in them necessary to use the PBI.

 

That said, they were never sold outside of North America, so it's understandable why there's international interest in them.  And they do look great ?

2 hours ago, T.A.P. said:

and all this talk of bad keyboards seems like they'd be a pain to deal with.

Those are usually fixable with not a lot of effort and a couple of options on how to approach the issue.

[Pokeypy]

2 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Ehh, I wouldn't say rare as unicorns.  Low production volume, certainly, but they are out there and crop up reasonably regularly.

Not here in Europe. Well, just checked ebay. One is offered from the U.S., price is about 500$ (470 EUR).

There are some collectors. Should go to museums or exhibitions, I think, like the one of Retro Man Cave, for example, if he doesn't already have one.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Pokeypy

[Sugarland]

6 hours ago, T.A.P. said:

I've been getting lots of people asking about the 1200XL. What makes them so desirable? I thought it was supposed to be one that was less compatible with stuff back in the day, and all this talk of bad keyboards seems like they'd be a pain to deal with.

 

Several reasons. Fantastic build quality. Perhaps the best keyboard of all A8's. Lots of internal space for expansions (I don't recommend much, if any). Beautiful aesthetics including the wonderfully glossy keycaps. Rarity. Lots of chrome. Well okay the huge aluminum strip. It has a nice big and unique presence about it.

 

There are several downsides to the 1200XL. 

• Often poor quality video. Can be fixed
• The cartridge tunnel is narrow (don't shave it!).
• The keyboard mylar fails 99% (can be restored or replaced).
• Compatibility problems especially with the earlier 400/800 software.  This can be fixed in a few ways.
• Only composite works on the monitor port.  Can be fixed
• SIO doesn't supply 5v so no powered SIO devices. Can be fixed
• Joysticks ports are awkward to use.  Can't be fixed
• No PBI.  Very difficult to add (not recommended)
• Function keys are less ergonomically accessible than 800 or 800XL with them being along the top. Can't be fixed.
• I have a machine with GTIA socket backwards from the factory that caused a couple ruined chips which as also my error to not verify orientation. Can be fixed.
• Gets warm along the back vents from the large heatsink cooling the linear regulators.  Possible to fix.
• It's big. Can't be fixed.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Sugarland

[+x=usr(1536)]

2 hours ago, Pokeypy said:

Not here in Europe.

Well aware - I grew up in PAL territory, and really wanted one badly also

2 hours ago, Pokeypy said:

Well, just checked ebay. One is offered from the U.S., price is about 500$ (470 EUR).

It appears as though there are currently four on eBay, one of which is an auction ending in an hour and it's sitting at $430; it includes two 850 interfaces, a 1050, and software and joysticks.  Two are sale-only with prices over $500, and aren't moving though one does include a 1010, 1050, and software plus controllers.  The fourth is a new entry and has yet to attract bids; it's at $100.

 

Like I said: not exactly unicorns.  They are out there, and they come up fairly regularly.

 

[T.A.P.]

Here's a bunch of pictures.

 

I started off by cleaning things with paper towels and rubbing alcohol, but the ones I have are too flimsy and were tearing after barely any use, so I figured I'd hold off on doing a thoroughly cleaning of each until I got some better towels and a few cans of compressed air to properly clean the keyboards.

 

Here's what I've dug out so far. Space is limited in my apartment, so I kind of had to just pull one thing out and put another back.

 

First we have two 1050 disk drives. I'm guessing the one with the dust cover was the one my dad modified, since it seems like he put his nicest/every day stuff under a dust cover.

 

I also found three of those XE era disk drives, although sadly they all have some pretty rough yellowing, and it looks like one has some scuffs/cracks in the casing. I honestly don't remember much about these, and guessing from the sheer amount of stuff in dad's collection, I have to assume at least a good chunk of this was stuff he bought used in the 80s/maybe early 90s?

 

In terms of computers, I pulled out the 1200XL since everybody seems to want that one. My brother took the other one already. This one has some noticeable scratches on the white part of the casing, and it looks like there's a crack in the clear plastic near the power light? It looks like some of the silver has faded/tarnished on the function keys too. I'm guessing a lot of the demand for it has probably evaporated. ?

 

Next up is the other 130XE I found (my brother already took the other one of it too). For whatever reason, all of the Tramiel-era stuff (am I spelling that right?) seems super yellowed. Was it the plastic they used?

 

I also took some pictures of the 600XL. I have to say, it looks pretty cute, although I definitely do not remember ever playing around with it, the 130XE, or the 1200XL.

 

I also found a staggering (to me at least) three 800XLs. One had a dust cover and a label on the bottom (not pictured) with dad's name and our old address on it, so I'm 99% sure that's his original machine. When I picked it up, it sounded like something was rattling around inside of it, so I'm a bit worried about that.

 

I also pulled out the two 800s. Both had snazzy dust covers on them. One looks a bit dirtier than the other. When I popped it open, it looks like some old foam padding under the hood had rotted/disintegrated. I'm definitely going to have to clean that out. It did have a BASIC cartridge inside still too. That's kind of neat.

 

The other 800 didn't have anything in it, and it looks like it doesn't have that metal shield bit that the first on had. Anyone know what the deal is with that stuff?

 

Also, the RAM carts are just stuck in the back of those, right? Does the back panel just pop off? I'd love to just check to see what's in there, if that can be done quickly without having to power them on first.

 

I also snapped a picture of the bin he put all the controllers in. There's a trackball pad buried at the bottom (not sure you can see it) a bunch of paddle and joystick controllers, and the XEGS light gun. I know we have a gray XEGS joystick around here somewhere too, although I didn't see it right away when I first looked.

 

This is just a chunk of the stuff he left to me. There's also a 400 and an XEGS, a bunch of disk games, tapes, books, cables, and all sort of other junk. There's just so much I had to stuff some away in my closet and can't easily get to it without pulling tons of other stuff out first.

[BillC]

16 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Quote

As for other stuff, I put a board inside my original 1050 disk drive that let it copy protected software."

For that one, you'll probably need to open it up and take photos.  There were a number of upgrades that made it possible to do this, and without seeing the guts or having a name to put to it, there's no good way to tell which one it was.

For the US/Canada this would most likely be a Happy 1050 or CSS Super Archiver upgrade, loading the backup software for these is a way to confirm without opening it up.

[+x=usr(1536)]

55 minutes ago, T.A.P. said:

Here's a bunch of pictures.

Thank you for posting these

Quote

First we have two 1050 disk drives. I'm guessing the one with the dust cover was the one my dad modified, since it seems like he put his nicest/every day stuff under a dust cover.

If possible, pop the cases on both and see what's in there.  With photos, a positive ID on what you're looking at should be doable.  Main area of interest is the PCB in the bottom of the case.

Quote

I also found three of those XE era disk drives, although sadly they all have some pretty rough yellowing, and it looks like one has some scuffs/cracks in the casing. I honestly don't remember much about these, and guessing from the sheer amount of stuff in dad's collection, I have to assume at least a good chunk of this was stuff he bought used in the 80s/maybe early 90s?

Most likely they were picked up used.  Those are true double-sided, double-density drives, which the 1050 (single-sided, enhanced-density) wasn't.

 

What I would suggest is figuring out if you have a computer in the pile that can boot a disk from one of the drives.  From there, start swapping out drives and seeing how many do or do not work.

 

Quote

In terms of computers, I pulled out the 1200XL since everybody seems to want that one. My brother took the other one already. This one has some noticeable scratches on the white part of the casing, and it looks like there's a crack in the clear plastic near the power light? It looks like some of the silver has faded/tarnished on the function keys too. I'm guessing a lot of the demand for it has probably evaporated. ?

Youd be surprised

Quote

Next up is the other 130XE I found (my brother already took the other one of it too). For whatever reason, all of the Tramiel-era stuff (am I spelling that right?) seems super yellowed. Was it the plastic they used?

In my experience, XEs seem to yellow more noticeably than the other A8s.  No idea why; presumably it was down to differences in the chemical composition of the plastics used.

Quote

I also took some pictures of the 600XL. I have to say, it looks pretty cute, although I definitely do not remember ever playing around with it, the 130XE, or the 1200XL.

The 600XL would make for a good keeper if you want to hang on to one.  Compact size, very upgradeable.  Only downside is that NTSC models didn't have a monitor port, so if you want composite video output you'll be drilling the case to install that modification.

Quote

Also, the RAM carts are just stuck in the back of those, right?

Correct.  The OS module is also back there and looks like a RAM module, but should be marked '10K ROM Operating System' or similar.  If for some reason it's not cased, etc., it'll be the card nearest the cartridge slots (front).  It has to go in that position, with the RAM modules going in the three rearmost slots.

Quote

Does the back panel just pop off? I'd love to just check to see what's in there, if that can be done quickly without having to power them on first.

Check this video; it's already queued up to the relevant part.  They're easy to take off, but visual aids are useful.

 

 

In the location where he mentions unscrewing brackets, your machine has thumbscrews that can be turned to free up the cover for removal.

[+x=usr(1536)]

20 minutes ago, BillC said:

For the US/Canada this would most likely be a Happy 1050 or CSS Super Archiver upgrade, loading the backup software for these is a way to confirm without opening it up.

Agreed on both counts.  If he doesn't have bootable media. however, this will be the most expedient way to figure out what's in there.

[Faicuai]

1 hour ago, T.A.P. said:

Here's a bunch of pictures.

 

 

 

I also found a staggering (to me at least) three 800XLs. One had a dust cover and a label on the bottom (not pictured) with dad's name and our old address on it, so I'm 99% sure that's his original machine. When I picked it up, it sounded like something was rattling around inside of it, so I'm a bit worried about that.

 

I also pulled out the two 800s. Both had snazzy dust covers on them. One looks a bit dirtier than the other. When I popped it open, it looks like some old foam padding under the hood had rotted/disintegrated. I'm definitely going to have to clean that out. It did have a BASIC cartridge inside still too. That's kind of neat.

 

The other 800 didn't have anything in it, and it looks like it doesn't have that metal shield bit that the first on had. Anyone know what the deal is with that stuff?

 

Also, the RAM carts are just stuck in the back of those, right? Does the back panel just pop off? I'd love to just check to see what's in there, if that can be done quickly without having to power them on first.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There...

 

That's the 800XL you may want to keep... It has ALPS first-variant keyboard (the best). and also its nice thick cover). If it is made in Hong Kong, chances it will be fully socketed as well (the back decal should be white).

 

Cart-door shielding on the 800s was dropped at some later point of production. That's why you see one without it, unless the door was replaced during at some point in its life-time. Both have tabs to secure the expansion-bay cover (as soon as you get there you will start noticing the architectural differences between these machines). If RAM cards are present without their individual cases, that means later production.

 

The last 800 looks in top-shape. You could post the serial #s in the back, and the content of the expansion bays once uncovered. That would be useful.

 

(FYI, you may want to preserve at least one of the gray-colored drives.... the best-looking / best-preserved one).

[sanny]

Does any software make use of the F keys on a 1200? I guess it was too short-lived for anyone to care and the 800XL dropped the F keys again.

[T.A.P.]

Here's the pictures of the serial numbers.

 

The first two pictures are of that one you said looked good. It looks like there's a silver stamp on it that says "Atari 411" any idea what that's about?

 

The third picture is of the other, dirtier 800, the one with the BASIC cart in it.

 

The final picture is from that 800XL that was under the dust cover. That's the one that sounded like something was rattling around inside.

[Sugarland]

When you have time, please register your 1200XL serial numbers in the 1200XL Owner's Club serial tracker thread.

 

Is this your dad's storage room?

 

 

[Faicuai]

5 hours ago, Sugarland said:

• Often poor quality video. Can be fixed
• The cartridge tunnel is narrow (don't shave it!).
• The keyboard mylar fails 99% (can be restored or replaced).
• Compatibility problems especially with the earlier 400/800 software.  This can be fixed in a few ways.
• Only composite works on the monitor port.  Can be fixed
• SIO doesn't supply 5v so no powered SIO devices. Can be fixed
• Joysticks ports are awkward to use.  Can't be fixed
• No PBI.  Very difficult to add (not recommended)
• Function keys are less ergonomically accessible than 800 or 800XL with them being along the top. Can't be fixed.
• I have a machine with GTIA socket backwards from the factory that caused a couple ruined chips which as also my error to not verify orientation. Can be fixed.
• Gets warm along the back vents from the large heatsink cooling the linear regulators.  Possible to fix.
• It's big. Can't be fixed.

 

EXCELLENT summary!

[Faicuai]

1 hour ago, T.A.P. said:

Here's the pictures of the serial numbers.

 

The first two pictures are of that one you said looked good. It looks like there's a silver stamp on it that says "Atari 411" any idea what that's about?

 

The third picture is of the other, dirtier 800, the one with the BASIC cart in it.

 

The final picture is from that 800XL that was under the dust cover. That's the one that sounded like something was rattling around inside.

Sou you got 1981 (earlier) and 1983 (later, confirming absence of door-shield) 800s, followed by a 1984 XL, made in Hong-Kong (white decal), with ALPS type-1 keyboard... now with a solid chance at finding it fully socketed!

 

You can now zero-in for inside inspection (would be ideal, especially if it rattles).

[T.A.P.]

Here's the serial number for the 1200XL I have. I've asked my brother to take a picture of his too, so hopefully I'll have that soon. When I do, I'll add both to that registry thing.

[T.A.P.]

20 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

Sou you got 1981 (earlier) and 1983 (later, confirming absence of door-shield) 800s, followed by a 1984 XL, made in Hong-Kong (white decal), with ALPS type-1 keyboard... now with a solid chance at finding it fully socketed!

 

You can now zero-in for inside inspection (would be ideal, especially if it rattles).

How do you read the serial numbers on those? I can't make heads or tales of them.

[T.A.P.]

1 hour ago, Sugarland said:

When you have time, please register your 1200XL serial numbers in the 1200XL Owner's Club serial tracker thread.

 

Is this your dad's storage room?

 

 

That's my front room after pulling all this stuff out to look at. ?

 

 

I talked to my dad on the phone for an hour today and learned a bit more about the computers.

 

That Hong Kong 800XL listed above was his very first computer. He bought it new.

 

He then bought a 1200XL when they were getting clearanced out for like, $200 and gave that to my brother (that's the one he has).

 

He then bought a second 1200XL, which is the one I have.

 

A few years later, he bought the two 800s and the 400 on clearance from some store here in Michigan. Along with a bunch of matching peripherals which I have not yet posted. One of the 800s was for my brother (so I'll be giving one back to him, we don't know who's was whose), the 400 was for me, because I was a little kid and he thought that keyboard would be good for me, since it's more spill-resistant, and the other 800 was for himself. I'm guessing they were used, he didn't remember. He then added the RAM upgrade to the 400. He didn't remember the exact size.

 

After that, he got the other two 800XLs, and the 130XEs and those three XE disk drives used from various sources. One of the XEs (the one my brother has) came from a Goodwill in the early 2000s! The other, which I still have, was apparently modified to have enough RAM to require bank switching, whatever that means. He thought it might have been 128k or maybe 256k, he didn't remember.

 

He didn't remember where the XEGS came from. Apparently we had two at one point (I remember playing Missile Command on one in his office as a kid), but that one broke and sadly he threw it away back in the 90s.

Edited August 22, 2021 by T.A.P.