Dread - Doom clone coming up for ST/STE

[Jacques]

That's incredible news coming from Silly Venture: Dread - upcoming Doom clone originally developed for Amiga 500 (or better) - will get its ST/STE version, too!

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Jacques

[moulinaie]

Do you remember Substation?

It was yet something incredible at the time.

 

But Dread looks even better ! That's good news.

 

Guillaume.

[Jacques]

@moulinaie

I do, but with no textures in Substation, I'd say Wolfenstein 3D conversion was the top 3D FPS game for ST(E).

It took many years, but it's going to be detronized by a big margin, now

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Jacques

[Lostdragon]

? Wow, looks better than likes of Gloom, Fears, Alien Breed 3D etc. 

 

 

I can appreciate Alien Breed 3D engine was a lot more ambitious, this just looks faster and a lot cleaner.. 

 

 

Music reminds me of the classic Chip tune musician, David Whittaker in places. 

 

Thanks for sharing this.. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Lostdragon

[Atari8guy]

Was there any idea on timelines?  This looks amazing!

[ataricrypt]

I gotta say, this looks outstanding!!!!  OUT-STAND-INGGGG!!!!!! 

[zzip]

Looks more like Wolfenstein 3D than Doom...   no stairs shown and the floor is untextured.    Still pretty cool to see on an ST though.

[Jacques]

Not sure about floor, but from what the authors say, there will be elevation changes in levels of final release. And of course the walls aren't / won't be only 90 degrees oriented as was the case in Wolfenstein 3D.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Jacques

[calimero]

23 hours ago, moulinaie said:

Do you remember Substation?

It was yet something incredible at the time.

 

But Dread looks even better ! That's good news.

 

Guillaume.

Dread on ST looks even better then on Amiga

 

Edit:

I just find out that they make new graphics for Dread! Because of this it looks much better than before

 

and it is quite faster on Amiga then on ST!

 

Here is some comments from Altair/KK (the author) regarding ST version:

 

https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=98654&page=48

 

(maybe someone experienced with ST could help him regarding blitter)

Edited August 24, 2021 by calimero

[Jacques]

Similiar playable demo with these new gfx will soon be available for both ST and Amiga. The author says A500 version will be working noticeably quicker due to usefulness of Amiga blitter for C2P conversion (better than the one of STE). I expect A500 version to have more colours than ST, too, not sure about STE.

 

Nevermind the comparison, Atari version would still rock

Edited August 24, 2021 by Jacques

[masteries]

9 hours ago, calimero said:

Dread on ST looks even better then on Amiga

 

Edit:

I just find out that they make new graphics for Dread! Because of this it looks much better than before

 

and it is quite faster on Amiga then on ST!

 

Here is some comments from Altair/KK (the author) regarding ST version:

 

https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=98654&page=48

 

(maybe someone experienced with ST could help him regarding blitter)

 

For sprites and general screen drawing, I suggest that Altair (Dread autor) will need to research about EMX2 sprite format from DML, and uncommon STE blitter usage

 

As well, take into account the possibility to use 4 MB RAM, in order to increase the amount of look up tables and pre-shifted (or anything applicable to 2D texture rendering with a STE blitter) and pre-scaled textures.

 

Really, I hope the source code of the ST version will be available soon or later

 

 

 

[oky2000]

Not sure how much Chip RAM the A500 version requires (512k or 1mb) but I think, and correct me if I am wrong, the Atari blitter can access the total amount of RAM in the machine unlike a 1mb A500 which the blitter can only see the first 512k of. Will check out the video as this is news to me.

 

There was a Sega Megadrive Doom or Wolf type engine in some knock off game, that was really fast for a 7mhz Megadrive at the time as IIRC it didn't use the sprite hardware to do the rendering.

 

edit: pretty neat. I would have bought that back then for my Atari ST. Worth remembering you need a 386 minimum to run Doom and a 286 to run Wolfenstein, the rival to the 68030 and 68020 respectively, so getting any 68000 based machine to do anything like Doom is a milestone. Was it the Posh mega demo that had a really nice Doom style bit which ran damned well for the STF hardware from what I remember.

Edited August 24, 2021 by oky2000
just seen the ST version

[masteries]

I was viewing a video of Dread, where texture scaling algorithm is explained.

 

For a 4 MB RAM sized STE computer, you can avoid completely the in game execution of the texture scaling algorithm.

 

Instead, pre scale all level textures into this relatively massive RAM size. And use an advanced blitter technique to draw these pre scaled textures.

 

As well, use pre-scaled sprites.

 

If all textures and sprites are pre-scaled, the performance will be much better.

 

For audio, a 2 Channel 11 KHz PCM mixer can do all the job for less than 3% of CPU power.

 

Amiga 500 video and audio hardware can only access to 1 MB RAM, Amiga 500 Plus and Amiga 600 can access to 2 MB

 

But 4 MB can be an advantage when pre-scaling is take into account. However, STE lacks hardware sprites for weapons that is a very good idea in Amiga 500

 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by masteries

[calimero]

^
we can only hope that Dread source will be published so we can see real power of STe

[+DarkLord]

Keeping fingers crossed that said source code can be fed into Doug Little's STe Advanced Game stuff! 

 

[Cyprian]

21 hours ago, calimero said:

Dread on ST looks even better then on Amiga

 

Edit:

I just find out that they make new graphics for Dread! Because of this it looks much better than before

 

and it is quite faster on Amiga then on ST!

I see 5~6FPS on the Atari and 3~4 on the Amiga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSlu3W0tMyI

and Wolfenstein3D by Ray has ~15FPS

[Jacques]

I don't know what that figure shows, but it doesn't seem to be FPS if you compare how it goes with the actual number And it does not seem any slower than Wolfenstein 3D on 8 MHz ST, too.

[calimero]

AdamK already replay to Cyprian at atari-forum.com: it is VBL counter - how much VBLs passes for each frame in game (if Dread is running at 50Hz and counter show 5 then it needs 5 VBL for one frame or in FPS terms, it is a 10 FPS).

Edited August 25, 2021 by calimero

[Jacques]

So the lower the better, thanks

[oky2000]

On 8/24/2021 at 10:36 PM, masteries said:

Amiga 500 video and audio hardware can only access to 1 MB RAM, Amiga 500 Plus and Amiga 600 can access to 2 MB

 

 

 

 

Amiga 500 custom chips produced access 512k for the most part I think chronologically but few were sold before 1989 when 1 millionth Amiga was sold. I think sometime between Workbench 1.3 release and Workbench 2.0 (around 1990 with A3000 first?) release there were 1mb capable chip RAM A500 units turning up in batches of A500s (different caps lock LED colour or something) I think. Very few games actually won't run without a full 1mb of Chip RAM specifically, can't think of any worth loading right this moment because I can't think of a game I loved playing that I couldn't play on my 1mb Amiga 1000 and put up with the hideously uncouth and loud A2000 I had for video work. My Autumn 1990 purchased Amiga 2000 was 1mb Agnus with 1mb on the main board because I could use a program to flick it into pseudo 60hz mode and I seem to remember that was a new thing but it came with 1.3 version of the OS.

 

Hopefully as soon as something to download is available I will be able to have one of my Mega STEs out on the desk and give it a go. I specifically bought MEGA STEs to play games in 16mhz lol but all came with fully installed and booting HD drives and 1.44mb FDD units. 

I also hope the author, or someone, puts out an ISO so CDTV owners can have something decent to play lol.

[Airshack]

Congratulations on a great technical achievement but how many versions of Doom does the world need?

 

I’d be more excited about a NEW game with a creative new game element.

 

Digital karaoke like this is technically superb yet leaves me feeling like this sort of thing is more of a demo than a game.

 

Game design calls for a special form of creativity which is completely abandoned in projects like this.

 

Why not try to write your own game? Why develop all that skill and just use it to clone someone else’s game? Cool demo.

 

I’m left wishing more of the “new” games for the ST were new.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Airshack

[ParanoidLittleMan]

12 hours ago, Airshack said:

Congratulations on a great technical achievement but how many versions of Doom does the world need?

......

 

Well, some NEW, original  game ? That's actually more and more hard to create, or better say invent. It was hard already in 80-es of prev. Century, and now, when there are so many games already released ...

What happens in most cases is that good, original game idea/concept is cloned a lot. Like Tetris.  But there is come creativity even in that. Can add some new elements, improve look, gameplay etc.

Doom was not original game when it arrived on market - I guess some will not agree with this. But it was in fact just another first person shooter (FPS). The whole thing was in textures - and that was rather result of increased computer power what made it possible - in 1992-3 with CPU only. Few years later texture draw support in 3D graphic cards became basic feature. No wonder, that's something what really makes it looking close to real.

 

Calling this demo is not fair. This is game, and some may play Doom based game for the first time by playing this. Pulling out max of some computer is always hard task, and might need years of experience. And after watching video, I'm pretty sure that it is really near to max possible with STE.

Saying all this while I was never some fan of Doom.

[Lostdragon]

22 minutes ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

Well, some NEW, original  game ? That's actually more and more hard to create, or better say invent. It was hard already in 80-es of prev. Century, and now, when there are so many games already released ...

What happens in most cases is that good, original game idea/concept is cloned a lot. Like Tetris.  But there is come creativity even in that. Can add some new elements, improve look, gameplay etc.

Doom was not original game when it arrived on market - I guess some will not agree with this. But it was in fact just another first person shooter (FPS). The whole thing was in textures - and that was rather result of increased computer power what made it possible - in 1992-3 with CPU only. Few years later texture draw support in 3D graphic cards became basic feature. No wonder, that's something what really makes it looking close to real.

 

Calling this demo is not fair. This is game, and some may play Doom based game for the first time by playing this. Pulling out max of some computer is always hard task, and might need years of experience. And after watching video, I'm pretty sure that it is really near to max possible with STE.

Saying all this while I was never some fan of Doom.

I think you've only to look at the number of Doom Clones on the Amiga (Fears, Gloom, Breathless, Behind The Iron Gate, Alien Breed 3D etc)... 

 

Or ask why people did things like Super STario Land, when the ST already had likes of Great Giana Sisters, Hard 'n' Heavy,DoddleBug,Fire And Ice etc. 

 

Core Design cloned Mercs with Warzone 

and Switchblade II and Team 17's Assassin on Amiga are heavily influenced by Strider and let's not forget the awful Strider II BY Tiertex. 

 

Bitmap Bros Gods is heavily influenced by Black Tiger

 

Imagitec Design's Viking Child is their take on Super Wonderboy. 

 

Let alone the attempts over the year to clone things like Sonic, Street Fighter II, Mortal Kombat etc. 

 

If it's popular, it will be cloned. 

 

 

 

I'm assuming this will be, once finished, a full, commercial release? 

 

 

Maybe those who've produced such titles can say which sell better, original titles or clones of popular existing titles. 

 

As for Doom itself, the original blew me away, but Doom 2, just felt so much like an expression pack. 

[youxia]

1 hour ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

Doom was not original game when it arrived on market - I guess some will not agree with this. But it was in fact just another first person shooter (FPS).

Doom was anything but "just another FPS". Obviously, it wasn't the first, but it has introduced many new elements, while incorporating the old ones into one super slick package, thus setting a completely new standard.

 

I'm usually also not as excited about yet another port or clone, and that's what the 16 bit micros seem to get the most of. I'd much rather see something original. But there are exceptions, and this is one of them (so was masteries's Metal Slug). Technically it's astounding, if I got it back then for my humble A500 I'd lose my $hit, so to speak. Gameplay looks of course a bit simplistic, but it's always fun to blast some baddies in FP.

 

[roots.genoa]

Dread is not a Doom port anymore, so I don't see the problem.