Atari 130XE keyboard rebuild: vintage keycaps on modern switches

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

Just a quick update.

I pushed some minor adjustments to Rev. D so if you were waiting for that, it should be good to go now. I haven't had time to fully test the build, but it should be fine.

 

Also, new adapters have been tested and they work fine. They are also very cheap to produce (remember, 0.8mm or less). There's one for IDC and one for FFC. They are both a lot smaller than the previou version, and they work perfectly in the original Atari connector.

 

Finally, I shuffled files around to organize the repo a little better.

[pseudografx]

One more question: would the key adaptors be strong enough when printed on an FDM printer?

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

28 minutes ago, pseudografx said:

One more question: would the key adaptors be strong enough when printed on an FDM printer?

You mean the replacement stems? It's not really a question of strength, more one of print quality and definition. Resin is about 50 microns (1/20th of a millimeter) in resolution and achieving that relatively reliably, whereas the best consumer grade filament printers as far as I know are around 0.1mm, and in my experience that is largely theoretical and effective prints tend to be much fuzzier in texture than what can be achieved with resin. For such small parts that require very small tolerance to reproduce close to the original feel of the switches, I doubt you'll ever get satisfactory results with filament.

I would love to be proven wrong though, resin is so messy, if someone can reliably get good results with filament, that would be great.

[pseudografx]

Thanks. I will have to someone who has a resin printer and lives nearby. Or at least within EU.

Edited November 4, 2021 by pseudografx

[Mrd1234]

5 hours ago, pseudografx said:

One more question: would the key adaptors be strong enough when printed on an FDM printer?

I tried several times with a 3dwox 1 printer and where the bottom end of the stem is so intricate, it failed every-time.  The print would collapse and at the thin parts.

[ivop]

Did you print multiple pieces at the same time? It really helped me with this:

 

 

I know it's a way easier adapter, but the main point was that each layer had to have enough time to cure, before the next one is placed on top of it. One adapter quickly became a mess. Printing a whole bed worked perfectly. Also try using a raft.

[_The Doctor__]

36 minutes ago, ivop said:

Did you print multiple pieces at the same time? It really helped me with this:

 

 

I know it's a way easier adapter, but the main point was that each layer had to have enough time to cure, before the next one is placed on top of it. One adapter quickly became a mess. Printing a whole bed worked perfectly. Also try using a raft.

layer/slice delay...nice move!

[55five66six]

On 11/1/2021 at 10:40 PM, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

Probably not from me, but the Gerber files are on the repo, and the PCBs are so cheap to make that you should be able to get 5 faster and cheaper directly from JLCPCB than through me

 

I'd wait for a couple of days if I were you however, since rev. D is almost here and I'll be able to validate it soon.

Hi @ScreamingAtTheRadio! Is Rev D ready yet? I know you had some finishing touches you were putting on it. I'm thinking about ordering and building a board myself, but wanted to wait until you had all the changes you wanted to put in. ?

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

57 minutes ago, 55five66six said:

Hi @ScreamingAtTheRadio! Is Rev D ready yet? I know you had some finishing touches you were putting on it. I'm thinking about ordering and building a board myself, but wanted to wait until you had all the changes you wanted to put in. ?

Yes, the current files on GitHub are the latest and have all the latest adjustments. Note there are new stabilizers for the space bar that are specific to the square or circle variant of the key caps.

[55five66six]

Ok. Wanted to make sure. I saw here.. Which I think is what I have sent to JLCPCB, right?

I saw the last commit say, " Add FFC connector - 130MX Rev C RC2 ". Wanted to make sure before I ordered. ?

 https://github.com/bleroy/3d-junkyard/blob/main/Atari130MX/Atari130MX.pro
 

Edited November 27, 2021 by 55five66six

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

28 minutes ago, 55five66six said:

Ok. Wanted to make sure. I saw here.. Which I think is what I have sent to JLCPCB, right?

I saw the last commit say, " Add FFC connector - 130MX Rev C RC2 ". Wanted to make sure before I ordered. ?

 https://github.com/bleroy/3d-junkyard/blob/main/Atari130MX/Atari130MX.pro
 

There are other changesets after that one. Take the latest from the main branch and you should be fine.

[55five66six]

16 hours ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

There are other changesets after that one. Take the latest from the main branch and you should be fine.

So this one, right? 

 

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

7 hours ago, 55five66six said:

So this one, right? 

It looks like you're only looking at the versioning of the project file, which only just about references the files that really matter: the PCB files or the Gerbers. I'd recommend you either clone the whole repo or download the latest version of it as a ZIP archive and take the files you need from there.

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

The project made it to Hack-a-Day: https://hackaday.com/2021/12/12/atari-130xe-keyboard-now-goes-clack/

[+scorpio_ny]

5 hours ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

The project made it to Hack-a-Day: https://hackaday.com/2021/12/12/atari-130xe-keyboard-now-goes-clack/

Congrats!!!! This is a very nice project. I am currently waiting for  a few more parts so I can finally finish mine.

 

[thom0707]

@ScreamingAtTheRadio Nice project! I picked up a 130XE a while back that needed a little retro-brighting, as well as a replacement keyboard. But I never liked the feel of the keyboard compared to modern mechanicals or even my stock 800, and was delighted to find this.

I am comfortable with most areas of the build, but I've never ordered a custom PCB before. Any suggestions for manufacturers and what file(s) specifically I would need to send to them (they seem to ask for Gerber or .pcb files, but there is a lot more in the repo. and I'm not sure what is what)? Or even better, are there any spares still available for the latest revision for circular keycaps, leftover from a bulk order?

Another question: it sounds like the steel plate template does not apply for circular keycaps yet, but an aluminum PCB could be substituted to serve the same purpose. Did I understand that correctly?

Thanks in advance.

Edited December 31, 2021 by thom0707

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

On 12/31/2021 at 1:05 AM, thom0707 said:

I am comfortable with most areas of the build, but I've never ordered a custom PCB before. Any suggestions for manufacturers and what file(s) specifically I would need to send to them (they seem to ask for Gerber or .pcb files, but there is a lot more in the repo. and I'm not sure what is what)? Or even better, are there any spares still available for the latest revision for circular keycaps, leftover from a bulk order?

Another question: it sounds like the steel plate template does not apply for circular keycaps yet, but an aluminum PCB could be substituted to serve the same purpose. Did I understand that correctly?

Look in the Fabrication sub folder for zip files. You should be able to upload that directly to JlcPcb or any fabrication site. PcbWay is another popular choice. Fabrication houses generally have a page explaining what files  to include but the zip file should already have that.

 

I don’t currently have spares, sorry.

 

yes you can use an aluminum pcb like those jlcpcb can make as a plate for the circle variant. The zip file for that is also in the fabrication folder (Atari130MX-plate.zip)

 

 

[+scorpio_ny]

On 11/4/2021 at 3:52 PM, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

For such small parts that require very small tolerance to reproduce close to the original feel of the switches, I doubt you'll ever get satisfactory results with filament.

I would love to be proven wrong though, resin is so messy, if someone can reliably get good results with filament, that would be great.

I generally agree with @ScreamingAtTheRadio about this,

but I decided to give it a shot to see how bad it would be. I did a quick prints with the stems laying flat and tall on the print bed on an Ender 3. I did some supports, but some of the stem still did not print because it may be too thin for the printer. Even with that, they still seemed usable. One attempt required a lot of cleanup of the supports. But to my surprise, both worked! The one printed tall seemed a little more scratchier since the layers are laid against the travel of the switch. I am posting a video link of my results so one can decide if they want to try to go this route in printing the stems.

Test print of Stems

Edited January 30, 2022 by scorpio_ny
Fix link

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

9 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

I did a quick prints with the stems laying flat and tall on the print bed on an Ender 3. I did some supports, but some of the stem still did not print because it may be too thin for the printer. Even with that, they still seemed usable. One attempt required a lot of cleanup of the supports. But to my surprise, both worked! The one printed tall seemed a little more scratchier since the layers are laid against the travel of the switch. I am posting a video link of my results so one can decide if they want to try to go this route in printing the stems.

 

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. Seems like it's a bit more cleaning work, but it's amazing this works at all. Well done. It will be interesting to see how that scales to a full set.

[+scorpio_ny]

8 hours ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. Seems like it's a bit more cleaning work, but it's amazing this works at all. Well done. It will be interesting to see how that scales to a full set.

I may build a second keyboard and print the the stems myself.Right now,  I am still in the process of trying to finish building the keyboard for my 130XE. I am working out the connectivity. The PCB boards that to connect to the motherboard (the IDC versions anyway) are too tall. The keyboard sits on it and it prevents closing the case properly. I am looking at the FFC version to see if the connector is shorter to use that one instead.

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

15 hours ago, scorpio_ny said:

I am looking at the FFC version to see if the connector is shorter to use that one instead.

It is, however, it's always going to be a tight fit at best, because the connector is so unfortunately positioned where the case is the shortest. I've been modding the motherboard myself to use headers and have the adapter fit horizontally, but I totally get most people want to keep the original connector and plug into that.

I do have an idea that should help with this and other issues that I'm hoping I can test in the next few days but it's a rather radical redesign.

[+scorpio_ny]

46 minutes ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

It is, however, it's always going to be a tight fit at best, because the connector is so unfortunately positioned where the case is the shortest. I've been modding the motherboard myself to use headers and have the adapter fit horizontally, but I totally get most people want to keep the original connector and plug into that. I do have an idea that should help with this and other issues that I'm hoping I can test in the next few days but it's a rather radical redesign.

You were not kidding that it is a tight fit! After building the keyboard, I set out to see how it fits with the IDC connectors (I am so familiar with soldering SMD components yet). My goal was to try to treat this as a true drop in replacement (my 130 XE is my childhood one and it is pristine condition. The only change I made to it was to install sockets to replace the RAM). Instead of the IDC connector I used, used pin headers on the keyboard itself to and DuPont connectors to lower the space needed for clearance. When the keyboard connector did not fit, I trimmed one of my samples to get an accurate measurement to see at height would allow the keyboard to sit normally

in the case (unfortunately, the connector is not usable after the mod). I was successful in comfortably setting the key board in place with the shielding still in place and was able to  close the case with no issues. Another thing to note is that the keyboard seems to have some flex and movement at the top and bottom. I was easily able to correct this by using silicon feet at certain points on the keyboard to provide additional support/height needed by the top case. After this, the keyboard felt perfect!  I was at the point that I was looking at other options for connectivity. I eagerly await to see what you can have in mind! 

[XL Freak]

Sad there's been no activity in this thread for such a long time. I read it through 3 times in utter glee and anticipation 😁 My dusty ole 130XE has been resurrected and is awaiting a new kbd mylar and silicon cups. Then I find this lol. I want one! I looked around and found this twitter feed about an 800XL mech kbd, and he used the standard switches and new cherry mx type keycaps that he had made at wasdkeyboards. it's all explained in the feed. and I really liked this idea, except the oddly sized right arrow key. don't like that at all. so I came up with this... it has the same keys, fits in the existing keyboard hole, and only moves a few keys, and is way more modern than the original atari kbd's. and... it avoids all the 3d printing on an xl keyboard, but would still need 5 switch stems for the xe function keys due to their odd shape.

 

 

@ScreamingAtTheRadio, would it be possible to get this version kbd traced on your pcb? here is the kbd edit file

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/77d0fbca3c4932f8486bef8a860fd0df

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by XL Freak

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

You should check out this other thread: 

 

Gianluca has been using a modified version of my PCB design and used it with his own modern key caps.

 

I also have a long due update for this thread: I've been building a low-profile Kailh Choc version of the keyboard that still re-uses vintage caps but does so without require switch modification, only adapters. It also has backlighting. I'll try to take photos soon.

 

[Bee]

@ScreamingAtTheRadio  What is the cost of the PCB when you had it made?  I'm asking what it ran you not for you to sell me one.

 

Has this been uploaded to OSHPARK?

 

I'v been to the GITHUB but I'm confused what is the "current version"

 

Awesome work BTW!

 

Thank you