PIN 7 of the hand controller port

[rietveld]

Can someone confirm whether  pin 7 of the Adam and Colecovision controller port is in used?  

 

It looks like the Gemini provides the joystick with +5v from pin 7 but the Adam and Colecovision don't. 

[zaphro72]

8 hours ago, rietveld said:

Can someone confirm whether  pin 7 of the Adam and Colecovision controller port is in used?  

 

It looks like the Gemini provides the joystick with +5v from pin 7 but the Adam and Colecovision don't. 

I think the roller controller and the super action controllers use pin 7 and 9 put normal controllers do not use them and can cause issues if they are wired up, but I am no expert on the subject.

[rietveld]

8 hours ago, zaphro72 said:

I think the roller controller and the super action controllers use pin 7 and 9 put normal controllers do not use them and can cause issues if they are wired up, but I am no expert on the subject.

I was hoping to wire +5 from the PSU to pin 7 to allow me to use a gamepad that needs power. .  I just was not sure if pin 7 is connected to the Adam or if it is left out.. 

[leaded solder]

8 hours ago, rietveld said:

I was hoping to wire +5 from the PSU to pin 7 to allow me to use a gamepad that needs power. .  I just was not sure if pin 7 is connected to the Adam or if it is left out.. 

Pin 7 is wired on both controllers to their respective LS541s in the ChildOfCv schematics.

Edited September 15, 2021 by leaded solder
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[Swami]

9 hours ago, rietveld said:

I was hoping to wire +5 from the PSU to pin 7 to allow me to use a gamepad that needs power. .  I just was not sure if pin 7 is connected to the Adam or if it is left out.. 

By+5 I assume you mean +5volts? You add an extension cord with pin 5 removed.  The +5V goes to pin 7 on your powered controller and the ground goes to pin 8. You need a high rated Zener diode to electrically isolate pin 8 from the voltage, since it is not a true ground. This is what both the EM2 and roller controller have. You might get by with just using the console psu ground, but I think you need a ground to the controller port for it to work. Finally, unless you’ve done invasive surgery on the interior of the controller, you will not get the second button to work, unless it’s a Colecovision or 7800 controller. 7800 controller is NOT  compatible with games where pushing both buttons simultaneously has a special function. I can post a recommended Zener diode later. 

[ChildOfCv]

1 hour ago, Swami said:

By+5 I assume you mean +5volts? You add an extension cord with pin 5 removed.  The +5V goes to pin 7 on your powered controller and the ground goes to pin 8. You need a high rated Zener diode to electrically isolate pin 8 from the voltage, since it is not a true ground. This is what both the EM2 and roller controller have. You might get by with just using the console psu ground, but I think you need a ground to the controller port for it to work. Finally, unless you’ve done invasive surgery on the interior of the controller, you will not get the second button to work, unless it’s a Colecovision or 7800 controller. 7800 controller is NOT  compatible with games where pushing both buttons simultaneously has a special function. I can post a recommended Zener diode later. 

The steering wheel module uses 4 C batteries for power.  The Roller Controller has a passthrough for the CV's input power plug to power it.  Neither of them are powered by the controller port.  The port doesn't provide enough power for that.

[Swami]

20 minutes ago, ChildOfCv said:

The steering wheel module uses 4 C batteries for power.  The Roller Controller has a passthrough for the CV's input power plug to power it.  Neither of them are powered by the controller port.  The port doesn't provide enough power for that.

That’s true, but I never said that, but both of them have a ground to pin 8 with some form of electrical isolation from the positive voltage. I was referring to the immediately previous sentence, not the sentence before the previous sentence. 

[Swami]

19 hours ago, rietveld said:

I was hoping to wire +5 from the PSU to pin 7 to allow me to use a gamepad that needs power. .  I just was not sure if pin 7 is connected to the Adam or if it is left out.. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/203295952962?epid=154060800&hash=item2f55621042:g:b6sAAOSwYYtgdFi1

 

cheaper: https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Datashield-Protector-DB9/dp/B00006B81G/

 

 

[ChildOfCv]

6 minutes ago, Swami said:

That’s true, but I never said that, but both of them have a ground to pin 8. 

Well that's not exactly true either though.  Pins 5 and 8 are complementary signals that toggle between +5 and 0V so the CV can read either the joystick or the keypad.  When pin 5 is 0V, it reads the keypad.  When pin 8 is 0V, it reads the joystick.  Diodes provide a handy method of isolating pin 5 and 8's influence on the same control pins.

 

The roller controller uses the console's ground as its ground reference.

 

The wheel uses pin 8 as its ground reference, but that means its output would be 5V + the wheel's internal voltage when pin 8 is 5V.  But the wheel controller uses a transistor to pinch off its own voltage source when pin 8 is a higher voltage than pin 3, effectively removing power from the rest of the electronics during that time.  The 4093 and the optical decoder will both shut off during this period.  When pin 8 is 0V, the electronics turn on and will affect pins 7 and 9 according to the current reading from the decoder.

 

To answer the OP's question, pin 7 is used by the CV and Adam.  It probably won't hurt to provide +5V to the pin since it just goes to a TTL input, but it would still be better to disconnect it from the DE9 connector and run it to its own power source.  If you want multiple console compatibility, you could have an Atari/CV switch to make or break the pin 7 console connection.

[Swami]

18 hours ago, ChildOfCv said:

Well that's not exactly true either though.  Pins 5 and 8 are complementary signals that toggle between +5 and 0V so the CV can read either the joystick or the keypad.  When pin 5 is 0V, it reads the keypad.  When pin 8 is 0V, it reads the joystick.  Diodes provide a handy method of isolating pin 5 and 8's influence on the same control pins.

 

The roller controller uses the console's ground as its ground reference.

 

The wheel uses pin 8 as its ground reference, but that means its output would be 5V + the wheel's internal voltage when pin 8 is 5V.  But the wheel controller uses a transistor to pinch off its own voltage source when pin 8 is a higher voltage than pin 3, effectively removing power from the rest of the electronics during that time.  The 4093 and the optical decoder will both shut off during this period.  When pin 8 is 0V, the electronics turn on and will affect pins 7 and 9 according to the current reading from the decoder.

 

To answer the OP's question, pin 7 is used by the CV and Adam.  It probably won't hurt to provide +5V to the pin since it just goes to a TTL input, but it would still be better to disconnect it from the DE9 connector and run it to its own power source.  If you want multiple console compatibility, you could have an Atari/CV switch to make or break the pin 7 console connection.

Okay. Thanks for the info. I’ll look at the schematics some more. I’ve been working on an adapter to use a usb mouse as a roller/EM2 but been burnt out on hardware lately. 

[ChildOfCv]

13 hours ago, Milli Vee said:

Could you Use +5 and ground on the expansion connector?

That would be possible.  It would look odd to see a 60-pin connector that only connects 2 wires, of course.  But it's possible.

[NIAD]

10 hours ago, Swami said:

Okay. Thanks for the info. I’ll look at the schematics some more. I’ve been working on an adapter to use a usb mouse as a roller/EM2 but been burnt out on hardware lately. 

Check out John Lundy’s Coleco Mouse Adapter. All the info is available on the Coleco ADAM Facebook Group as well as GitHub. He has some all ready to be purchased.

 

Oh yeah, he just added code to all the connection of a NES or SNES controller to his Mouse adapter to use on a CV or ADAM.

[rietveld]

2 hours ago, NIAD said:

Check out John Lundy’s Coleco Mouse Adapter. All the info is available on the Coleco ADAM Facebook Group as well as GitHub. He has some all ready to be purchased.

 

Oh yeah, he just added code to all the connection of a NES or SNES controller to his Mouse adapter to use on a CV or ADAM.

can anyone elaborate on the USB joystick compatibility?    I don't have a need for a mouse but I would love the option to use a USB joypad with the Adam.   Has anyone experimented to see what will and will not work with the adapter 

[Tekman]

6 hours ago, rietveld said:

can anyone elaborate on the USB joystick compatibility?    I don't have a need for a mouse but I would love the option to use a USB joypad with the Adam.   Has anyone experimented to see what will and will not work with the adapter 

I had a few old USB NES and SNES joypads I used to develop the code with my USB mouse adapter. I also ordered a few other newer versions off Amazon to test with. Surprisingly, there wasn’t a common structure between most of them and had to add compatibility for all the differences in code. It now works great with every NES and SNES joypad I could get my hands on.

 

I don’t have a link to the older joypads I’ve had for a long time, but these pads I recently ordered off Amazon work fine with it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07M7SYX11
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073Z9MKKH

 

If you only want to use a NES style pad and no mouse, I suggest you just buy the RetroBoyz NES style Coleco pad that is wired for the 9-pin joystick port and ready to go. Seems silly to have a USB adapter that needs external power only to use a NES pad in this case.

[NIAD]

2 hours ago, Tekman said:

Seems silly to have a USB adapter that needs external power only to use a NES pad in this case.

It would be extremely silly! Some of the CV and ADAM games play amazing with a USB Mouse… especially wireless.

 

in my humble opinion, your Coleco Mouse is a must product for gamers and works great with ADAM apps.

[Swami]

9 hours ago, Tekman said:

I had a few old USB NES and SNES joypads I used to develop the code with my USB mouse adapter. I also ordered a few other newer versions off Amazon to test with. Surprisingly, there wasn’t a common structure between most of them and had to add compatibility for all the differences in code. It now works great with every NES and SNES joypad I could get my hands on.

 

I don’t have a link to the older joypads I’ve had for a long time, but these pads I recently ordered off Amazon work fine with it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07M7SYX11
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073Z9MKKH

 

If you only want to use a NES style pad and no mouse, I suggest you just buy the RetroBoyz NES style Coleco pad that is wired for the 9-pin joystick port and ready to go. Seems silly to have a USB adapter that needs external power only to use a NES pad in this case.

USB pads appear to be the same, as my experience with the USB controller to Amiga/Atari had the same development issues where compatibility had to be addressed for many different USB pads from different manufacturers. I haven't built any, but I can see the process in the firmware revisions for the devices. Same for the keyboard/mouse FPS adapters for more modern consoles Playstation 2/OG XBox and on.

[Swami]

9 hours ago, Tekman said:

I had a few old USB NES and SNES joypads I used to develop the code with my USB mouse adapter. I also ordered a few other newer versions off Amazon to test with. Surprisingly, there wasn’t a common structure between most of them and had to add compatibility for all the differences in code. It now works great with every NES and SNES joypad I could get my hands on.

 

I don’t have a link to the older joypads I’ve had for a long time, but these pads I recently ordered off Amazon work fine with it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07M7SYX11
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073Z9MKKH

 

If you only want to use a NES style pad and no mouse, I suggest you just buy the RetroBoyz NES style Coleco pad that is wired for the 9-pin joystick port and ready to go. Seems silly to have a USB adapter that needs external power only to use a NES pad in this case.

Does the CV/Adam USB mouse adapter allow for use of both mouse buttons L/R for CV L/R buttons? Then I could play Armageddon with it with one of those Atari 2600 foot pedals plugged into the second port. I don't see any details for use any where.

[Tekman]

5 hours ago, Swami said:

Does the CV/Adam USB mouse adapter allow for use of both mouse buttons L/R for CV L/R buttons? Then I could play Armageddon with it with one of those Atari 2600 foot pedals plugged into the second port. I don't see any details for use any where.

Yes, both L/R buttons on mouse equal L/R on the CV controller. Armageddon plays great with the mouse adapter and certainly puts more order to the chaos when just using a standard controller. I suck at Armageddon with a standard controller and get a much better score using the mouse and only needing to use the port 2 joystick for the center shots. The foot pedal is a good idea, almost too good. Between the mouse and the foot pedal, it's almost like cheating at that point because someone using a standard controller is at a big loss on reaction time. The adapter also makes KABOOM! very playable, unlike trying to use a standard controller.

 

More info is on the ADAM facebook group. I'm an ADAM guy, but I do make them in ADAM beige and CV black.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/115531017844/permalink/10159779675377845/

[NIAD]

20 hours ago, NIAD said:

It would be extremely silly! Some of the CV and ADAM games play amazing with a USB Mouse… especially wireless.

I should correct this statement as A LOT of the CV and ADAM games play amazing with a USB Mouse.

[Swami]

9 hours ago, Tekman said:

Yes, both L/R buttons on mouse equal L/R on the CV controller. Armageddon plays great with the mouse adapter and certainly puts more order to the chaos when just using a standard controller. I suck at Armageddon with a standard controller and get a much better score using the mouse and only needing to use the port 2 joystick for the center shots. The foot pedal is a good idea, almost too good. Between the mouse and the foot pedal, it's almost like cheating at that point because someone using a standard controller is at a big loss on reaction time. The adapter also makes KABOOM! very playable, unlike trying to use a standard controller.

 

More info is on the ADAM facebook group. I'm an ADAM guy, but I do make them in ADAM beige and CV black.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/115531017844/permalink/10159779675377845/

I was going to go a cheaper route, with a USB mouse to Amiga/Atai adapter and use an ICC to flip the second button to work. I think the Atari Smalymouse2 ($50) would work, except you can't switch it to joystick and have pin 5 feedback. The TOM2+ might work ($35), but then you have to worry about pin 8 and 5 feedback and they tend to brick. You can add a TrippLite DataShield type device, but then you add $25 to the price. I might be able to do it cheaper if I knew more about what I was doing, but I'm still pretty much a noob. I ended up ordering one of yours as it actually does all that and more.