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Will Amico launch holiday 2021?

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7 hours ago, Papy said:

This is not true. I mean I don't remember Donkey Kong Jr Math being an arcade game. Also, games like Baseball, Tennis, Pinball and several others were not arcade games per se. They were ported only later on the Nintendo VS System.

 

Anyway, this was in 83. It was still the golden era of Arcade games. However, the 7800 was released in 86. And yes, the difference between 1983 and 1986 was huge.

Obviously with a name like Family Computer, Nintendo's intention was more than arcade games.  They launched with three arcade titles, the math game, using arcade assets, came out five months later.  The 7800 was a mothballed project from 1984, it's launch cartridges were developed in 1983/84 by a different company.  Atari/Tramiel's focus wasn't even software.

 

Just saying that the Amico library right now might not have the games everyone is looking for or might look skewed in one area.  It's only a start.  Their controller provides the features for developers to create unique games for the system particularly local multiplayer games.

55 minutes ago, ashtonm said:

Clubhouse games is the ultimate casual game and it's really good. My kids 9 and 12 play it all the time. It's basically 51 Amico games. Not the retro reimagined ones, but many of the other planned games.  And you can even play the games online if wanted. 

 

Now, not saying casual gamers that only play on phones are going to go out and get a Switch. But I don't think they will get an Amico either.  I guess we will see if it comes out.  My personal opinion is the Amico will be primarily retro gamers focused.  People fond of the original Intellivision and Atari. 

 

 

On 9/23/2021 at 4:27 AM, SegaMasterSystemPunk said:

 

Exactly what is this market segment, where not even Nintendo reaches?

The Amico people might say it's families with children aged seven and under, preschoolers.  And maybe not families with videogames from multiple systems sitting on the shelf, but you never know.  The Switch does have thousands of games, all types.  The Amico people might say that library itself and a controller with three direction inputs and eight or more buttons is less friendly to casuals.  The focus for Amico is multiplayer gaming, social gaming for all types of players.  Grabbing that audience isn't going to happen overnight.

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1 hour ago, ashtonm said:

Watch Nintendos advertising.  They certainly are targeting families and couch co-op and semi casual gamers. And people nostalgic to the old Nintendo games. 

 

Either way they are killing it with the Switch. My kids have done very well with it. Animal Crossing and Clubhouse games are their main games. 

Yes this is reflected in my house as well. Animal Crossing has the most time played. The next in line is Clubhouse Games and Carcassonne is third. I played and beat FFX and then time I put in didn't even breach the top 3. Why? Because my wife is a casual gamer and likes to play a round of Backgammon or Ludo here and there.

 

With the price range they are in they are totally competing and I understand why they want to act like they aren't. It goes back to they might not have old IP names but they still have those same types of games.

 

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On 9/23/2021 at 10:27 AM, SegaMasterSystemPunk said:

 

Exactly what is this market segment, where not even Nintendo reaches?

Realistically speaking, Amico will have to compete with Switch to carve its own niche. The mobile niche is entirely reliant on the fact that phones sell because people need them, only a handful of people buy phones putting priority on the gaming aspect. So yeah, Amico is incomparable to phones, while it's very comparable to other consoles. The only thing Amico can do, is to actually be better than Switch at dealing with casual gamers. I honestly think Amico's concept is solid: a strictly family friendly console focused on accessibility, lack of predatory paying methods and simplicity is absolutely great in theory. Switch definitely already does that to an extent, but it can be disorienting for non-gaming people (the e-shop is quite messy) and you have to deal with the parental control for safety. So yeah, there's an opening in my opinion for such a console... BUT it has to effectively do these things better than Switch, or it will perish inevitably. Focusing on small children is risky, because the right window is extremely ephemeral. However, if IE manages to expand its library into an array of pick-up and play accessible games, with enough diversity to appeal to everyone, then it may effectively sell. I admit I love the goofyness of this wannabe new yet nostalgic console (I specifically have a soft spot for these ambitious/naive projects), but I also wonder if it's the right choice for its own purpose. Atm I think the priority should be a steep increase in the perceived quality, both of the games and the marketing. That could really be a game changer, since the console is still mostly unknown to the public. It's a shame it doesn't cost much less, at 100-150$ it would've had so much more appeal, but I understand that for smaller companies that may be harder to achieve. 

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This goofy argument about Nintendo not Amico has been regurgitated so many times I can’t help but think it’s just an excuse for Nintendo fan boys to White Knight for their ersatz best friend as a child. I mean, we’re really off the he topic of if the Amico will launch in Dec-Jan. 

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7 hours ago, MattPilz said:

 

You're still attempting to argue that Nintendo doesn't cater to casual gamers? Really?

 

One of their select few launch titles for Switch was Super Bomberman R, it sold 2 million copies. Compare that to Dynablaster (which was originally Bomberman). What's the difference here?

 

Another launch title was 1-2-Switch, featuring casual couch play minigames. 3+ million sold.

 
You don't think that Mario Party is a casual game and huge selling point for Nintendo? Nintendo has sold more than 60 million copies in its life, but by far its greatest sales came from the Switch version, with around 16 million and currently #7 best-selling for the platform out of thousands of titles. People of all ages and game skills play these types of games, Animal Crossing and more.


I believe many would actually consider one screen games like Shark Shark to be coffee-break games or minigames as part of a larger offering, rather than dedicated console casual gaming in the modern sense. That style does remain immensely popular as web games and mobile apps (including Agar.io and Eatme.io, which is a lot like Shark Shark). The Android app Big Fish Eat Small Fish has over a million downloads.

 

Point being, I really don't think the casual gaming market is as wide open and untapped as you suggest.

I would agree.  The Switch at this point practically has a game for almost every type of gamer whether it be a rogue-like, racing, platform, open world, etc.  Granted, perhaps the Amico can deliver some exclusive titles that will be worth playing, such as Cloudy Mountain.  That being said, the Switch really is a no-brainer console wise, especially with the ability to take it on the go.  Just my opinion.

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Just to keep things in line with the topic of thread, I will say that I don't think the Amico will launch this year.  If it does, it will be a soft launch a la the Atari VCS.  However, I wish IE the best of luck and hope they can get the console released sooner rather than later.

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46 minutes ago, Swami said:

This goofy argument about Nintendo not Amico has been regurgitated so many times I can’t help but think it’s just an excuse for Nintendo fan boys to White Knight for their ersatz best friend as a child. I mean, we’re really off the he topic of if the Amico will launch in Dec-Jan. 


So, disagreeing with that the Amico has no competition is fanboying and white knighting now?

 

Tsk tsk, silly you.

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52 minutes ago, SegaMasterSystemPunk said:


So, disagreeing with that the Amico has no competition is fanboying and white knighting now?

 

Tsk tsk, silly you.

Yeah, that’s all you were doing. 🙄

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By the way the Atari 7800 is a great system.  Lots of really good arcade ports focused on multi-player. But competitive and co op. 

 

The only issue it had was it was delayed many years and was obsolete by the time it came out.  

 

Really good system for families though. My wife especially enjoys co op Centipede.  

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11 minutes ago, ashtonm said:

By the way the Atari 7800 is a great system.  Lots of really good arcade ports focused on multi-player. But competitive and co op. 

 

The only issue it had was it was delayed many years and was obsolete by the time it came out.  

 

Really good system for families though. My wife especially enjoys co op Centipede.  

...and the pain-line controller. It does have one of the best centipede ports, though. Double co-op trackball.

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On 9/22/2021 at 11:36 PM, Papy said:

The problem with the 7800 was that its focus was on arcade games. It was trying to compete against the Colecovision. Unfortunately, by the time it got released, arcades were already starting to decline. The 7800 didn't fail because of the NES, it failed because people who played video games changed.

 

For now, the Amico doesn't have a real competitor. I don't think Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo will try to change their target demographics (and therefore the style of games they offer) anytime soon. Also, I don't think people who now play casual games on mobile will suddenly change. It means delays should not affect Intellivision much.

This isn't exactly true though.  At the Amico's pricepoint, it has boxed itself into a corner that anything that costs that range of money is a competitor.  The average family only has so much money to shell out for a high priced luxury entertainment item in a given year.  The Amico really needed to come out on its original launch date last year when a large number of consumers were on lockdown and freely spending their stimulus checks (see last year's phenomenal Switch sales).  Now, Nintendo is already releasing a new model (OLED) with preorders sold out, Valve has the Steam Deck coming out (also sold out), and a large number of people are still trying to get their hands on PS5's and XBox Series X/S.  Whatever mass market chance the Amico had, probably would have seen its best chance last year.  I really think that at its current price point, by the time it releases, its going to be lost in the noise of other high value entertainment options already on the market with a much higher profile.  

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2 hours ago, Hwlngmad said:

Just to keep things in line with the topic of thread, I will say that I don't think the Amico will launch this year.  If it does, it will be a soft launch a la the Atari VCS.  However, I wish IE the best of luck and hope they can get the console released sooner rather than later.

Yeah I'm thinking this year is out. I still haven't seen the certs pop up, but today the website wasn't being friendly.

 

So with CNY that would mean somewhere Q2 2022 would be the earliest. If the Fundable %s are to be believed, it might be longer depending on when they can get the backend and OS finished.

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20 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Yeah I'm thinking this year is out. I still haven't seen the certs pop up, but today the website wasn't being friendly.

 

So with CNY that would mean somewhere Q2 2022 would be the earliest. If the Fundable %s are to be believed, it might be longer depending on when they can get the backend and OS finished.

If the semiconductor shortage is a major factor, then that's something that will stick around for longer than that. 

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The CFO said they are considering taking a loss to get pre-orders out.  He also said the electronics parts supply situation changes daily.

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7 hours ago, mr_me said:

a controller with three direction inputs and eight or more buttons is less friendly to casuals

Sure, but remember a single Joy-con has only one direction input at least.

(and yes, I agree it's small even for my small hands and not very comfortable - I hate Joy-cons' joysticks by the way - but at least some casual gamers seem to be ok with it)

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2 hours ago, SegaMasterSystemPunk said:

If the semiconductor shortage is a major factor, then that's something that will stick around for longer than that. 

Yeah I've heard some think it will be 2023. I would like to think they will get it out 2022. I think it will be a matter of how much do they want to cut into their profits?

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18 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Yeah I've heard some think it will be 2023. I would like to think they will get it out 2022. I think it will be a matter of how much do they want to cut into their profits?

 

Since the games are going to be cheap, they have to make the dough on the consoles. Thus, I don't think they are willing to take a loss.

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40 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

Sure, but remember a single Joy-con has only one direction input at least.

(and yes, I agree it's small even for my small hands and not very comfortable - I hate Joy-cons' joysticks by the way - but at least some casual gamers seem to be ok with it)

Thumbsticks in general aren't great input devices.  It's why controllers still have dpads.  Amico controllers can be used right-handed for casuals as well.

 

10 minutes ago, SegaMasterSystemPunk said:

 

Since the games are going to be cheap, they have to make the dough on the consoles. Thus, I don't think they are willing to take a loss.

That's correct fair pricing for both hardware and software.  If they expect to sell 1M+ consoles over its lifetime, a loss on a few thousand preorders can be burried over lifetime costs.

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1 minute ago, mr_me said:

That's correct fair pricing for both hardware and software.  If they expect to sell 1M+ consoles over its lifetime, a loss on a few thousand preorders can be burried over lifetime costs.

 

And gain what in doing so?

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36 minutes ago, SegaMasterSystemPunk said:

 

And gain what in doing so?

The satisfaction of thanking those that pre-ordered their console.

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59 minutes ago, SegaMasterSystemPunk said:


At the cost of ruining the hype. Would be a noob move.

You'll forgive me if I don't assume you're a reliable source for video game console production advising. 

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18 hours ago, MattPilz said:

You're still attempting to argue that Nintendo doesn't cater to casual gamers? Really?

Yes I am.

 

Nintendo did try to catter to casual gamers with the release of the Wii, but it didn't last. Nintendo very quickly refocused the Wii toward its core demographics. Since then, Nintendo's attempts to appeal to casual gamers was only symbolic at best.

 

Invoking Super Bomberman R on the Switch as a proof that Nintendo is cattering to casual gamers is kind of absurd. First Super Bomberman R is available on PC, PS4, Xbox One and the Switch. Since the release of Bomberman on the Famicom, this game was pretty much on everything. Bomberman is a "regular gamer" game. Second, when we compare the original Bomberman (or many other games in the series) with Super Bomberman R, we realize that Super Bomberman is not only faster, but also more complex in many ways. Super Bomberman R is certainly not a simplified and more "casual gamer friendly" version of previous games in the series. The design particularities of this game were made to please experienced gamers, not to attract casual gamers.

 

You mention other games you claim are for casual gamers. You say 1-2-Switch has sold 3 million copies. You say Mario Party has sold 60 million copies (actually, it's 15 million for the Switch). OK, but who bought this game and played with them? Was it casual gamers? Or was it the regular Nintendo demographic? Do you have data on this? If no, then how can you come to the conclusion that Nintendo is cattering to casual gamers?

 

Before saying that Nintendo catters to casual gamers, you should first ask yourself what a casual gamer is. You should ask yourself why a casual gamers won't play the same game as you do. You should ask yourself that question because as long as you can't define what a casual gamers is, then you can't define what game can appeal to casual gamers.

 

And unfortunately, very few people here are interesting in understanding what a casual gamer is.

 

17 hours ago, SegaMasterSystemPunk said:

Even if that was the case, which I don't agree with, it doesn't mean they don't compete with the Amico, since there clearly are games for that demographic in their offering.

It's not because you imagine that a game is for casual gamers that casual gamers will like it. And again, casual gamers are not people who like to search for hidden "gems" in a store. So even if there are hidden games that might please gamers, these games don't count.

 

14 hours ago, ashtonm said:

Clubhouse games is the ultimate casual game and it's really good.

From a pure statistical point of view, Candy Crush is the ultimate casual game. I'm impressed something as bad as Clubhouse games sold 3 million copies, but in the end 3 million copies is completely insignificant in the casual game market.

 

14 hours ago, ashtonm said:

Now, not saying casual gamers that only play on phones are going to go out and get a Switch. But I don't think they will get an Amico either.

I know quite a few casual gamers. They don't play on their phones, they play on their tablets. Tablets are the real competitors of the Amico.

 

14 hours ago, ashtonm said:

My personal opinion is the Amico will be primarily retro gamers focused.

Intellivision will decide what is the focus of the Amico. If the choice is to focus on retro-gamers, then I believe the Amico will fail.

 

12 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

Yes this is reflected in my house as well. Animal Crossing has the most time played. The next in line is Clubhouse Games and Carcassonne is third.

Animal crossing demographic is quite strange, at least to me. I recently learned it's divided almost perfectly 50/50 between men and women, and the age range is concentrated in the 20 to 30 years old. I'm not sure that people who play that game are really typical casual gamers. If they were, more people over 35 would play Animal Crossing since they are the ones who play the most with casual games. The game do appeal to a particular demographic, but I don't know which one.

 

As for board games, the best way to play them is with the board game itself. The only exception is for board games with very complex rules (for example : Neuroshima Hex). Another exception is obviously when alone. In that case, tablets are clearly the superior device. I don't know about the US, but in Quebec pretty much every family has at least one tablet (most schools require parents to buy one tablet per children) and I'm guessing that, at least for younger children, they are the main gaming device (since most younger children don't have cell phones). I'm also guessing that many people over 40 will prefer a tablet over a phone only due to eyesight problems. Does your family has at least one tablet?

 

11 hours ago, Retrodon said:

Realistically speaking, Amico will have to compete with Switch to carve its own niche. The mobile niche is entirely reliant on the fact that phones sell because people need them, only a handful of people buy phones putting priority on the gaming aspect.

You forget people who buy tablets. In the US, tablets have an installed base of 190 million devices for a population of 330 million.

 

11 hours ago, Retrodon said:

BUT it has to effectively do these things better than Switch, or it will perish inevitably.

Part of me thinks it wouldn't be too hard since Nintendo's effort to appeal to casual gamers is mostly symbolic, but then I don't think many established developers have the expertise to make games for casual gamers. Generally speaking, I'd say action games are not really casual games, no matter how simple and how easy they are. A game needs more than just "action" to please a casual gamer. I'd even say that "action" is generally a turn-off for casual gamers.

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3 hours ago, Papy said:

I'd say action games are not really casual games, no matter how simple and how easy they are. A game needs more than just "action" to please a casual gamer. I'd even say that "action" is generally a turn-off for casual gamers.

It seems you are depicting an extremely narrow and abnormal view of casual gaming, without truly defining what you consider to be "casual gaming" and why exactly the Amico titles or platform fits that bill but nothing Nintendo does qualifies. Your perception of casual gaming seems fixated on the term itself and in a bubble of isolation, that is not how it is in the real world.

 

Nintendo has been driving home the "for any gamer, moms, grandpas, shoulder watchers, casuals" angle since the advent of the Switch in every major media promotion. Mario Kart and Smash Bros. are some of the most casually enjoyed games on any platform, with many tiers of players. Anyway this is a futile discussion because you keep shifting goalposts and no matter what logic anyone presents to you, you're good about discarding it entirely. I do not believe the demographic of "Candy Crush" tablet or mobile users will ever transition over to a $250-300 console regardless of what one it is, if they don't already have one for other purposes or family members.

 

My own reason for being interested in Amico is because of the Intellivision angle and retro factor (as a major fan of other Mattel 80s platforms). This seems to be the reason why nearly everyone you'll find talking about this on YouTube has taken interest in it, too. I get that the going rebuttal is that marketing for the true demographic hasn't started, but I maintain they'll have a tough time catering to the "casual gaming" (whatever definition you wish to use) crowd in an already mobile/Switch saturated market at a comparable price bracket. I'd guess the bulk of pre-orders come from those who grew up in the 80s with the original or are game enthusiasts, not casuals. Guess time will tell. 

 

2018: 

 

 

2019:

 

 

2020: 

 

 

 

2021: 

 

 

Edited by MattPilz
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Papy, your viewpoint comes off as if you are an Amico investor.  You would have done better as a Nintendo investor.  Strange opinions. 

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