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Will Amico launch holiday 2021?

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On 9/23/2021 at 7:09 AM, Jacob Livingston said:

My reference to the 7800 was just purely the aspect of being late to market and missing out on a timely opportunity. That was the only parallel I was drawing there. Regarding the target demographic - we really can't fool ourselves into thinking that the Nintendo Switch platform doesn't have this covered with the bonus of also appealing to a broader range. Check out "Bubble Bobble 4 Friends" on the Switch and tell me that it doesn't align with being the perfect game for Amico if they were able to attract the license. It has a ton more appeal than something like Dynablasters or a doll getting mangled on a motorcycle. There are many more - I have 2 kids aged 5 and 9. Are there any parents of today here who feel that Intellivision's view of what parents know and think are from a 70s/80s mindset? We all grew up with games, unlike our parents. Calibration of messaging seems to be off by a generation or two.

Yeah I have two young kids and I really don’t get how VCS, Amico, Chameleon, etc, still go on about parents not knowing what video games are. The whole “Netflix Mom” trope is sexist and backwards. The people who are parents of young kiddos now grew up in the 80s and 90s- when gaming exploded. We’ve seen Pong evolve into RDR2 for Christ sake. Give 40 year old women some credit.  It’s such a weird marketing take to say us 40 year olds don’t get how e shop menus work or haven’t ever pressed a button before.  This is not about the quality of the games themselves just the super condescending marketing.

Edited by jerseystyle
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27 minutes ago, SegaMasterSystemPunk said:


Hate, is that when someone doesn't wholeheartedly agree with the desired narrative?

Nah, not really.   There are several points regarding this thing where I don’t agree at all with what they’re doing, but I’ve not been banned from anything, accused of hating, had any heated arguments,  or anything close to that, and I’ve seen many other users do the same.


Some people get downright vile, though, making personal attacks and really go a bit overboard when their opinion and point of view isn’t universally accepted, often after they insist dozens of times. So yeah, there have been quite a bit of legit attitudes that sure seem to fit the term “hate.”


Always humorous, though, to see dozens of posts that really seem to push it, and then when the ban happens, they post a whole lot of “I didn’t do nuffin’…”  😄

 


… and then there’s the new users who create an account, go straight to Amico threads, and do nothing but crap-post until the ban happens.  Those are amusing, too, because we’re all like “yep, I suppose they think they’re being clever this time…”     I've often felt that AtariAge should require new users to wait a period (45 days or something) before posting in Amico sections, or pay an "Amico ShitPosting fee" to allow them to come straight in and start their silliness.  It'd be just as annoying, but would at least have the benefit of helping AA pay for server costs or something.  
 

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6 hours ago, godslabrat said:

In my mind, no. They never really committed to getting them out before the holidays, so missing that isn't the same as missing one of the official ship dates.

I don't really think it counts either. It is basically indefinitely delayed until they give a date. They were just hoping to get it out by then. With the Fundable percentages, I would guess you will not see another date until all of those percentages are 100%, certs are filed, parts are secure, and they have a date with manufacturing. 

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2 hours ago, SegaMasterSystemPunk said:


Hate, is that when someone doesn't wholeheartedly agree with the desired narrative?

 

Clearly you haven't read a lot of the Amico threads....

 

Many supporters have constructive feedback and concerns.

 

But if you repeat a question over and over when the answer is given already.  You have issues.

 

When you say stuff like, Tommy sucks and needs to go.  He is doing everything wrong.  But offer no "correct" in your opinion feedback.

 

It becomes obvious what you are here for.

 

I'd hate to lump you in, but most of these GREAT contributors have <200 posts and the first posts they had started here to just be nasty and offer nothing.

 

So maybe all that ass hats can get together and be friends!  But I suspect the many haters are one or two people with multiple personalities ....Accounts.

 

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17 hours ago, Papy said:

Clubhouse games are the kind of games that were put on CD's of shareware programs during the 90's (although with better graphics) or the kind of games we had in cereal boxes. Just based on the demos of Moon Patrol or Breakout, it is obvious to me the quality of Amico games is vastly superior.

 

Interesting remark given the onslaught of negative post-E3 comments from general viewers who shared similar sentiments about Amico. (Comments that felt a bit premature given we only saw tiny excerpts of the games and most of the footage was from 2020, but it can't be denied that some games presented were very crude yet, especially the sport ones.)

 

You took the time to research reviews about the random games I originally referenced, but seem to disagree with the critical acclaim that Clubhouse has received. Venturebeat/Gamesbeat, which has shared many positive Amico stories and interviews with Tommy as well, gave it an 89/100 calling it "the kind of game that actually makes a platform for me." Here's an aggregate of critic reviews and scores.

 

Again your comment doesn't even attempt to explain why you feel the Amico games are "vastly superior" to anything in Clubhouse or other offerings that exist. You are comparing two action games on Amico (whereby 'casual gamers' can already play Amico's Moon Patrol right from their mobile phones and tablets, and endless variants of Breakout) to a Switch title that is exclusively for recreating physical party/club games. If you are basing your conclusions on something other than visuals, I would be interested to know exactly what and why. Visually and functionality wise I just don't see the huge discrepancy you argue.

 

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And again it should be emphasized all of these are part of a single game pack for Switch, but individual titles for Amico. Clubhouse even has a gorgeous Bejeweled/Bubble Puzzle style game, for those that are into it.

 

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Edited by MattPilz
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1 hour ago, MattPilz said:

 

Interesting remark given the onslaught of negative post-E3 comments from general viewers who shared similar sentiments about Amico. (Comments that felt a bit premature given we only saw tiny excerpts of the games and most of the footage was from 2020, but it can't be denied that some games presented were very crude yet, especially the sport ones.)

 

You took the time to research reviews about the random games I originally referenced, but seem to disagree with the critical acclaim that Clubhouse has received. Venturebeat/Gamesbeat, which has shared many positive Amico stories and interviews with Tommy as well, gave it an 89/100 calling it "the kind of game that actually makes a platform for me." Here's an aggregate of critic reviews and scores.

 

Again your comment doesn't even attempt to explain why you feel the Amico games are "vastly superior" to anything in Clubhouse or other offerings that exist. You are comparing two action games on Amico (whereby 'casual gamers' can already play Amico's Moon Patrol right from their mobile phones and tablets, and endless variants of Breakout) to a Switch title that is exclusively for recreating physical party/club games. If you are basing your conclusions on something other than visuals, I would be interested to know exactly what and why. Visually and functionality wise I just don't see the huge discrepancy you argue.

 

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And again it should be emphasized all of these are part of a single game pack for Switch, but individual titles for Amico. Clubhouse even has a gorgeous Bejeweled/Bubble Puzzle style game, for those that are into it.

 

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Man, you’ve talked me into picking up Clubhouse Games. I didn’t know it had slot cars and pool :)

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On 9/26/2021 at 12:12 AM, 1980gamer said:

I heard it was ready to ship over a year ago.  But after talking to some retro game publisher, Tommy was convinced to add a snow level to every game, even the OS must have a snow level.

 

Gee whiz, look what happens when you try to please 1 potential customer!

No, of course that is not another delay, no date given, thus it cannot be missed.

 

Hoping it comes out for Christmas doesn't make it an official release date! 

 

Not to be an ass, Serious question...  When is TRON Complete coming out?


 

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22 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Maybe, but at least, shilling for existing systems is not as weird. ;)

 

Maybe the Amico is not for you either, and you just don't know it. Yet.

I don’t care if it’s not for me. What they are doing is the same as what they are mocking him for. And you try to defend it, so I lose interest in your opinion. I no longer care what a troll cares about mine. 

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1 hour ago, jerseystyle said:

Man, you’ve talked me into picking up Clubhouse Games. I didn’t know it had slot cars and pool :)

That slot cars screen got my interest, too.  Wonder what kind of "depth" it has?   Just a no frills quick play, or maybe something at least similar to the 3DS slot cars game?

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15 hours ago, Ex_Mosquito said:

I can’t believe the arguments you make, they’re insane. Are you serious or are you trolling?

I'm completely serious and I fully believe what I say. If you read my post, you will realize that I use facts and logical reasoning to support my opinion. On your part, you just qualify my opinion as "insane", but you don't base your  "opinion" that what I say is insane on anything. You don't even try to challenge anything I say. You just throw an insult.

 

15 hours ago, Ex_Mosquito said:

Do you seriously think Candy Crush users, who arguably only play the game because they happen to have a phone, would spend 250 on a dedicated console enough for it to be a success?

It depends on the direction Intellivision takes with the Amico. More precisely, it depends if Intellivision really try to please people who are now called "casual gamers". If they do, then yes, I do believe many casual gamers could buy the Amico... and I already explained why. Read my previous post.

 

14 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

OK, it makes sense now. You should have told us from the beginning you were blind. :)

No game for the Amico is out yet. We saw short footage of alpha versions of a few games, but nothing more. However, there are two games that Intellivision deemed presentable enough to release demos : Moon Patrol and Breakout. MattPilz did mention that there was a game called "Arcanoid Breakout" on the Switch. I found a video of this game on YouTube.

 

First, this is Breakout on the Amico (and again, most probably still in the alpha stage) :

 

 

Second, the video of Arcanoid Breakout on the Switch (which is a released game and available on Nintendo store) :

 

 

 

I know you are very highly biased against the Amico, but there's a moment when the opinion becomes so absurd that it can only make you lose all your credibility.

 

11 hours ago, youxia said:

The only "undeniable reality" is the fairly obvious fact that casual gamers are casual. Look this word up, because you clearly struggle with definitions.

An interesting fact about Candy Crush is that "by September 2016, King released its 2000th level for the game to celebrate the milestone of over 1 trillion Candy Crush Saga games having been played." 2000 levels and 1 trillion games played. I mean these numbers are so high that they are almost unbelievable. And this is just one "casual" game. Looking at the number of downloads of many other "casual" games, I'd say that a lot of casual gamers are really dedicated to playing games.

 

As I said, many people here have no clue what a casual gamer is and more importantly why they are qualified as "casual gamers". You say that I "clearly struggle with definitions." I don't. I'm someone who learned that dictionaries are not good tools when the discussion is about semantics.

 

11 hours ago, youxia said:

In context of this thread it means that these are people who enjoy playing games occasionally, mostly because they already have a device which plays free games. But the moment somebody asks them to splash ~300USD for a console to play games on, they switch off (pun intended) precisely because they are casual (irregular, occasional, not serious, by chance, etc) gamers. They simply are not interested enough to invest in this hobby.

And why do you think they are not interested to "invest" in this hobby? You make the assertion that they won't invest in this hobby, but you don't seem to base this assertion on anything. It looks to me your opinion is based only on ignorance.

 

11 hours ago, youxia said:

This is why that "1% of 2 billion" calculation is worth zilch.

This conclusion is invalid since your reasoning is based only on an arbitrary hypothesis.

 

I really hope Intellivision release an educational game about logical reasoning, because there are an awful lot of people here who obviously do not understand even basic logic.

 

11 hours ago, youxia said:

Casual gamers who didn't buy Switch will not buy an inferior (tech and software wise) console which costs nearly the same, and offers only highly dubious advantages.

Casual gamers buy tablets that cost more than the Switch. They don't buy tablets only to play games, but playing games is still an important reason why people buy tablets.

 

You are obviously a fan of Nintendo, so I do understand why you want to champion the Switch, particularly because I know Nintendo fans are often ridiculed by owners of Sony or Microsoft consoles on the Internet, but you have to accept the fact that Nintendo mainly appeal to a specific demographic. For people outside of this demographic, including casual gamers, the Switch is not seen as something interesting.

 

11 hours ago, youxia said:

And if you really think they will because Amico has  "better casual games" than the ones already available on mobile or PC, you're clearly out of touch with this market: https://www.androidcentral.com/best-casual-games-android

So because three people (who I suspect are hardcore gamers) decided to make a list of "casual games" they like, you come to the conclusion that there can't be better games? Do you know what non sequitur means?

 

11 hours ago, youxia said:

Sure, they have micro$ and ads, but casual gamers don't really care that much, hence there being 2 bililion of them. And those who care can upgrade to existing consoles or a PC and get incredible gaming experiences, which, again, Amico line up is nowhere near to, in the same price range.

They do put up with ads and microtransactions, but that doesn't mean "they don't really care that much". You conclusion is, again, non sequitur.

 

Now I would agree that casual gamers would not pay $250 for an Amico only to have the exact same games they have on their phones or tablets, but with ads removed. However, the stated goal of Intellivision is not just to port Android games, it is to innovate. It is to offer something more to casual gamers. It is to offer something that is tailored to them.

 

I don't know if Intellivision will be able to find developers good enough to create good games for the group of people we now label as "casual gamers". Having a good idea is easy, actually implementing the idea is fucking hard. However, up to now it's the only company who clearly states this is their main focus for their console.

 

7 hours ago, SegaMasterSystemPunk said:

Hate, is that when someone doesn't wholeheartedly agree with the desired narrative?

I did criticize some choices made by Intellivision. For example, I criticized Intellivision for giving too much place to retro-games. I criticize Intellivision for not having educational games for adults (for now it looks like Brain Duel is the only one that could fit this category). I criticized Intellivision for trying to please people too much (my point was that if you try to please everyone individually, instead of trying to find a compromise for everyone, then everyone will want to play their favorite game and people will not play together). I certainly made some comments that were quite vitriolic. However, I don't remember ever being called a hater.

 

As I already explained to you, it's OK to criticize. It's OK to voice your opinion. However, when you repeat the same criticism again, and again, and again, when you ignore responses to your criticism that you repeat again, and again, and again, then it's because you are motivated by an agenda.

 

7 hours ago, jerseystyle said:

Yeah I have two young kids and I really don’t get how VCS, Amico, Chameleon, etc, still go on about parents not knowing what video games are.

I don't remember Atari or the guy behind the Coleco Chameleon to ever talk about parents. It looks to me you are trying to create a false association in order to later attack Intellivision based on the false association you created. This is a really dishonest behavior.

 

7 hours ago, jerseystyle said:

The whole “Netflix Mom” trope is sexist and backwards.

And now you are trying the false accusation of sexism. Cancel culture much? Personally, I utterly despise people who do this kind of shit.

 

1 hour ago, MattPilz said:

Interesting remark given the onslaught of negative post-E3 comments from general viewers who shared similar sentiments about Amico. (Comments that felt a bit premature given we only saw tiny excerpts of the games and most of the footage was from 2020, but it can't be denied that some games presented were very crude yet, especially the sport ones.)

You seriously deform reality here. Overall, I'd say the post-E3 comments were somewhat more positive than negative. And let's be honest, the post-E3 comments were pretty much the same as the pre-E3 comments. People who were anti-Amico continued to be anti-Amico and people who were pro-Amico continued to be pro-Amico.

 

1 hour ago, MattPilz said:

You took the time to research reviews about the random games I originally referenced, but seem to disagree with the critical acclaim that Clubhouse has received. Venturebeat/Gamesbeat, which has shared many positive Amico stories and interviews with Tommy as well, gave it an 89/100 calling it "the kind of game that actually makes a platform for me." Here's an aggregate of critic reviews and scores.

I didn't research review per se, I just tried to find videos of gameplays. For the only game where I looked at reviews, I mentioned one positive review and one negative reviews. Overall, I don't trust review much, unless they are truly detailed. Oh, and I don't trust "professional" reviews at all.

 

I don't deny that some people like Clubhouse Games 51. I mean there are people who think McDonalds is good food.

 

I'm someone who plays board games. I don't have a big collection, maybe only 40 games, but I still talk a lot about them. When I propose playing board games to people, many of them still think of games like Monopoly, Risk, Parcheesi, Cluedo, Trivial Pursuit or other board games that we can buy at Walmart. They are not aware that there was a huge evolution with board gaming in the 90s. Personally, I'm always astonished that people still view these old games as interesting, but the reality is some do. However, when I introduce them to modern games, then they realize how shitty these old games really are.

 

I don't deny that some people like Clubhouse Games 51, but I will say that these people's opinions are only the result of being uneducated. If one day these people try modern board games, I guarantee you that the vast majority of them will view board games included in Clubhouse Games 51 in a completely different light.

 

1 hour ago, MattPilz said:

Again your comment doesn't even attempt to explain why you feel the Amico games are "vastly superior" to anything in Clubhouse or other offerings that exist.

I already answered that question, so Ctrl-c, Ctrl-v (I even leave the grammatical mistakes) : I don't have an Amico and I didn't played any game on an Amico up to now. My interest for the Amico is based only on the stated goals and its potential for innovation in gaming.

 

On your part, you act as if you have played Amico games and therefore are in a position to judge them. I don't do that. The only two games I can somewhat judge are Moon Patrol and Breakout. And even then, I'm aware the demos I played were from alpha versions, also there was no multiplayer demo, so I won't feel confident asserting anything.

 

If Amico games end up being as shitty as Clubhouse Games 51, then I will be the first one to flame Intellivision.

 

1 hour ago, MattPilz said:

If you are basing your conclusions on something other than visuals, I would be interested to know exactly what and why.

I'm (partially) a retro-gamer. Bad graphics don't bother me. The corollary is I don't care much for good graphics. I'm only interested with playing games, not looking at them.

 

My problem with Clubhouse Games 51 is the games themselves. Again, board games have evolved a lot and they continue to evolve. Even games like Catan or Carcassonne have now been superseded by better games. As for the mini games, they are just that : mini games. These kinds of games can work in the course of a party game, but otherwise they don't work. Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly aware that casual gamers do play games like Mahjong or Solitaire. However, the versions included in Clubhouse Games 51 are inferior to those we can find on mobile or PC.

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1 hour ago, Papy said:

I'd say the post-E3 comments were somewhat more positive than negative.

I had two live streams open at the time, Twitch and YouTube. The live chat as-it-happened was very negative. These were main outlets (not INTV/Amico associated) and the majority of viewers were learning about the console for the first time at that moment. Even the Amico groups on Facebook acknowledged how hostile the general reaction was afterward. There was even a bit of a Twitter trend where users were mocking it by posting Dreamcast controllers and other primitive tech or calling it mobile/shareware dumps.

 

1 hour ago, Papy said:

but I will say that these people's opinions are only the result of being uneducated.

Likewise, I imagine the vast majority of users who continue enjoying classics and Clubhouse would lambast you as the truly uneducated one here. So...

 

1 hour ago, Papy said:

you act as if you have played Amico games and therefore are in a position to judge them.

you act as if you have played all 51 Clubhouse games and therefore are in a position to judge them.
 

1 hour ago, Papy said:

MattPilz did mention that there was a game called "Arcanoid Breakout" on the Switch. I found a video of this game on YouTube.

I listed one of numerous Breakout-like games that are available for those who want them. The reality is that the simplistic Pong/Breakout style games are not popular on consoles like they were in the 80s-90s so fewer developers bother making such a plain version except possibly as a mini-game as part of another (Space Invaders Infinity does this). It seems you're basing your bias comparing the two purely on visuals, since the mechanics are largely the same. Even so there are some much more interesting variants of Breakout for Switch, Strikey Sisters is good fun including for local co-op and maintains the Breakout concept but creates a unique action-like story. I love the visuals of the Amico version of Breakout, but still suspect an impartial survey presenting gameplay from both that and Strikey Sisters would find far more positive engagement in the latter.

 

 
 
1 hour ago, Papy said:

My problem with Clubhouse Games 51 is the games themselves. Again, board games have evolved a lot and they continue to evolve. Even games like Catan or Carcassonne have now been superseded by better games. As for the mini games, they are just that : mini games. These kinds of games can work in the course of a party game, but otherwise they don't work. Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly aware that casual gamers do play games like Mahjong or Solitaire. However, the versions included in Clubhouse Games 51 are inferior to those we can find on mobile or PC.

You realize that Amico's announced game list includes a lot of classics like Farkle, Spades, Charades, Mahjong, Liar's Dice... As well as classic sports. It also includes party games and single screen short games / mini-games. You will usually be able to find superior versions to these on mobile and PC, does this mean Amico's versions shouldn't exist? I don't even understand what point you are trying to make here, as it sounds like what you are criticizing is just as applicable to the Amico line as it is to Switch or any games released on either platform.

 

And you keep ranting on about board games evolving. Which is true, and I've played some great modern ones. But they still are no match in popularity to the classics which are still incredibly enjoyable especially for non-vested users who don't want to spend an afternoon just learning the instructions. This is why if you check Amazon's best sellers list for Board Games, nearly all of them are classics.

Edited by MattPilz
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1 hour ago, Papy said:

I know you are very highly biased against the Amico, but there's a moment when the opinion becomes so absurd that it can only make you lose all your credibility.

At least I admit you're totally right here. If you don't understand that your claims about Clubhouse Games make you sound completely dishonest, I can't help you.

The first time I saw this game I was floored by the level of detail it had compared to previous similar games. Even the connect-4 game features incredible sound design and physics.

 

I think the screens posted above show perfectly how a single Switch game looks better than the whole Amico line-up.

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11 hours ago, 1980gamer said:

 

Clearly you haven't read a lot of the Amico threads....

 

Many supporters have constructive feedback and concerns.

 

But if you repeat a question over and over when the answer is given already.  You have issues.

 

When you say stuff like, Tommy sucks and needs to go.  He is doing everything wrong.  But offer no "correct" in your opinion feedback.

 

It becomes obvious what you are here for.

 

I'd hate to lump you in, but most of these GREAT contributors have <200 posts and the first posts they had started here to just be nasty and offer nothing.

 

So maybe all that ass hats can get together and be friends!  But I suspect the many haters are one or two people with multiple personalities ....Accounts.

 


You are correct in the assessment that I haven't read all of the threads here. My obvservations are based mostly on what has been written after I joined, but I have read some older ones as well.


But based on what I have read, the "haters" seem to me to be constructive, not shitposters. Which is more than I can say of some of those who accuse them of being haters.

 

 

 

 

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We've seen enough of Amico Side Swipers to know it's not comparable to a slot car simulation.  Side Swipers is more of a game, and it's a four player game.  We haven't seen the Hot Wheels branding appllied yet and that could include a graphics makeover but people here know not to compare games on graphics alone.

 

The Baseball and Soccer shown so far were very early in development.  Haven't seen much of Amico Major League Baseball but it's targeting some traditional baseball videogame gameplay. Clubhouse Toy Baseball is completely different.  And Amico sports games are four player games.

 

Breakout/Arkanoid style games are never acceptable without proper controls; and xbox/switch style controllers are not acceptable.  Remains to be seen how much better it controls with an Amico controller.  We've already seen some interesting details in Amico Breakout like ball spin.  The same thing about controls can be said about Missile Command style games.

 

Regarding card games; how are you going to play Texas Holdem on a Switch with other players in the room?  People complain about the computer AI and other limitations on the Clubhouse version of Texas Holdem, you're better off playing on mobile.

Edited by mr_me

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4 minutes ago, mr_me said:

We've seen enough of Amico Side Swipers to know it's not comparable to a slot car simulation.  Side Swipers is more of a game, and it's a four player game.  We haven't seen the Hot Wheels branding appllied yet and that could include a graphics makeover but people here know not to compare games on graphics alone.

 

The Baseball and Soccer shown so far were very early in development.  Haven't seen much of Amico Major League Baseball but it's targeting some traditional baseball videogame gameplay. Clubhouse Toy Baseball is completely different.  And Amico sports games are four player games.

 

Breakout/Arkanoid style games are never acceptable without proper controls; and xbox/switch style controllers are not acceptable.  Remains to be seen how much better it controls with an Amico controller.  We've already seen some interesting details in Amico Breakout like ball spin.  The same thing about controls can be said about Missile Command style games.

 

Regarding card games; how are you going to play Texas Holdem on a Switch with other players in the room?  People complain about the computer AI and other limitations on the Clubhouse version of Texas Holdem, you're better off playing on mobile.

Are you better off playing Texas Holdem on the Amico than on mobile phones and tablets, though?

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Local multiplayer card games and other table top games where each player holds private information, is a huge advantage for Amico. 

 

And it opens up unique possibilities for unique local multiplayer strategy/action games.

Edited by mr_me

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13 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Local multiplayer card games and other table top games where each player holds private information, is a huge advantage for Amico. 

 

And it opens up unique possibilities for unique local multiplayer strategy/action games.

Against other consoles, yes. But I was asking, what about against tablets and smartphones?

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Amico controllers for those that can't or don't want to use their own phones.  How much does the mobile solution cost,  I found one texas holdem with lots of in-app purchases.  Others with ads.  Also on Amico, you would have a shared view on the big screen for more interaction.  Then you'd compare details like rules and options.  Amico also gives you the option to play somewhere without internet like a cottage.

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2 hours ago, MattPilz said:

I had two live streams open at the time, Twitch and YouTube. The live chat as-it-happened was very negative. These were main outlets (not INTV/Amico associated) and the majority of viewers were learning about the console for the first time at that moment. Even the Amico groups on Facebook acknowledged how hostile the general reaction was afterward. There was even a bit of a Twitter trend where users were mocking it by posting Dreamcast controllers and other primitive tech or calling it mobile/shareware dumps.

Since the beginning, there is a small group of people who are dedicated in attacking the Amico. I don't know why. I mean I can understand that someone is not interested in a product. For example, I have zero interest in having a PS5, an Xbox or a Switch. I'm a "PC Master Race" kind of guy. However, actually following a product in order to attack it, that I can't understand. To me, this behavior is a sign of a psychological problem.

 

However, psychological problems are not that common. I still think the majority of people are still somewhat sane.

 

You say the chat of the two streams were very negative. You also say that the majority of viewers were learning about the console. Now unless the product is associated with political ideas, I tend to believe the reaction to the presentation of the product should go from completely uninterested to excited. The only time I could expect a negative reaction is if the people were at least somewhat interested in the product and the product presentation did not meet their expectations.

 

So can you explain to me why these people who didn't know about the console had a "very negative" response instead of simply having no interest in the product?

 

2 hours ago, MattPilz said:

Likewise, I imagine the vast majority of users who continue enjoying classics and Clubhouse would lambast you as the truly uneducated one here. So...

And I would be uneducated about what exactly? There are an awful lot of people who never played modern board games and who don't even know these modern board games exist. I believe it is fair to say that these people are uneducated about board games. Due to their lack of knowledge, I do not consider their opinions as having much worth. However, can you explain to me why the fact that I have a greater knowledge than them about board games would justify them to say I'm uneducated?

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't pretend to be an expert on board games. I'm not Tom Vassel or another board game expert. However, that doesn't change that I know more about board games than the vast majority of people. So again, why would that make me "the truly uneducated one"?

 

2 hours ago, MattPilz said:

you act as if you have played all 51 Clubhouse games and therefore are in a position to judge them.

I did play most of the board games that are in this compilation. I was always passionate about games. As for the mini games, they are so simple that I feel confident in declaring that they are just mini games. If you disagree, can you tell me which mini game you think in this compilation has enough depth to be something that can played again and again?

 

2 hours ago, MattPilz said:

I listed one of numerous Breakout-like games that are available for those who want them. The reality is that the simplistic Pong/Breakout style games are not popular on consoles like they were in the 80s-90s so fewer developers bother making such a plain version except possibly as a mini-game as part of another (Space Invaders Infinity does this).

Oh, I totally agree that retro-games are not as popular as they were when they were not retro-games. In fact, this is why I think that if Intellivision give to much space to retro-games, then the console will fail.

 

However, you did compare Arcanoid Breakout on the Switch to Amico's Breakout. This is how you validated your point... And this is why I responded to it. This argument / counter-argument is how we are supposed to have a discussion in order to come to a truth.

 

2 hours ago, MattPilz said:

It seems you're basing your bias comparing the two purely on visuals, since the mechanics are largely the same.

First, I don't think you understand what bias means. Second, no, I don't consider the difference is purely on visuals.

 

One thing that makes Amico's Breakout stand out from all other Breakout games is the music / sound. It's not a "zen" game because the action quickly becomes frantic (I wish there would be a "zen" mode with this game), it's not a rythm game, but there is still a quasi hypnotic quality in this game, particularly after playing a few times (when we need less concentration to play and therefore when we can "let go".

 

The gameplay of Amico's Breakout is also obviously better calibrated. Because the speed of the ball, exept for the three or four first hit, there is rarely a waiting period. More importantly, because of the spin, the game suffers less from a feeling of being "stuck" (due to not being able to have the correct angle). And this is from an alpha version.

 

Calibrating a gameplay is very difficult. It's much more difficult than having good graphics and ultimately gameplay is what really matters. Two games with "largely the same mechanics" can produce two completely different experience simply because of this calibration. In the case of Amico's Breakout, I'd say the calibration is really good. From the video of Arcanoid Breakout, I guess it is even worse than the original Arkanoid (which in my mind was not very good).

 

2 hours ago, MattPilz said:

I love the visuals of the Amico version of Breakout, but still suspect an impartial survey presenting gameplay from both that and Strikey Sisters would find far more positive engagement in the latter.

A survey comparing a demo level from a game in its alpha stage against a finished game?

 

2 hours ago, MattPilz said:

You realize that Amico's announced game list includes a lot of classics like Farkle, Spades, Charades, Mahjong, Liar's Dice... As well as classic sports. It also includes party games and single screen short games / mini-games.

I don't think you realize the full depth of the psychology behind game design. I'll take a game like Gardenscapes as an example. It's just another match-3 game. It's basically the same mechanics as Bejewel. Yet, this game creates an engagement that Bejewel could never do. The reason is because Gardenscapes implements a reward system and a progression system using meta goals and a story, something that bejewel never did.

 

In some way, the reason Gardenscapes work is because it kind change the role of the game. Sure, the match-3 puzzle can be fun to do at first, but after a while it becomes boring. So the solution is more or less to present the game as "work" to get the reward. This combination of work / reward is what fools the brain into thinking that something useful was done.

 

We know next to nothing about Farkle or Spades, and absolutely nothing about Mahjong. However, it would really surprise me if a system or reward and progression is not implemented with these games. And in the end, it's not the game itself which is important, but the system of rewards and progression.

 

2 hours ago, MattPilz said:

You will usually be able to find superior versions to these on mobile and PC, does this mean Amico's versions shouldn't exist?

How do you know the Amico version of these games will be inferior to what we find on mobile or PC?

 

2 hours ago, MattPilz said:

 I don't even understand what point you are trying to make here, as it sounds like what you are criticizing is just as applicable to the Amico line as it is to Switch or any games released on either platform.

The point I'm trying to make is that Clubhouse Games 51 is bad. I thought I was quite clear about that.

 

2 hours ago, MattPilz said:

And you keep ranting on about board games evolving. Which is true, and I've played some great modern ones. But they still are no match in popularity to the classics which are still incredibly enjoyable especially for non-vested users who don't want to spend an afternoon just learning the instructions. This is why if you check Amazon's best sellers list for Board Games, nearly all of them are classics.

An afternoon just learning the instructions? I wonder what game you played. For most gateway games, it's between 5 and 15 minutes. Some games are somewhat complex, like Netrunner or Neuroshima Hex, some are very complex, like ASL, but overall many video games are more complex than gateway games.

 

And again, the popularity of classic board games comes only from ignorance. People just don't know there are much better games. And no, classic board games are not "incredibly enjoyable".

 

1 hour ago, roots.genoa said:

If you don't understand that your claims about Clubhouse Games make you sound completely dishonest, I can't help you.

I see you can't think of any counter-argument.

 

1 hour ago, roots.genoa said:

The first time I saw this game I was floored by the level of detail it had compared to previous similar games. Even the connect-4 game features incredible sound design and physics.

You were floored by Clubhouse Games 51? My god! When was the last time you played a video game? 1990?

 

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1 hour ago, mr_me said:

Amico controllers for those that can't or don't want to use their own phones.  How much does the mobile solution cost,  I found one texas holdem with lots of in-app purchases.  Others with ads.  Also on Amico, you would have a shared view on the big screen for more interaction.  Then you'd compare details like rules and options.  Amico also gives you the option to play somewhere without internet like a cottage.

 

People who hate in-app adds and purchases is actually what I see as the main target group for the Amico. I think that is the biggest USP this consolse has, from what has been made known so far.

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Ive been inspired to buy an actual REAL PHYSICAL slot cars track!  
 

Screw the video game versions!
 

 

 

 

D21A7B56-FCAC-405F-8078-E9E8ED616671.jpeg

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8 hours ago, Papy said:

I'm completely serious and I fully believe what I say. If you read my post, you will realize that I use facts and logical reasoning to support my opinion. On your part, you just qualify my opinion as "insane", but you don't base your  "opinion" that what I say is insane on anything. You don't even try to challenge anything I say. You just throw an insult.

 

It depends on the direction Intellivision takes with the Amico. More precisely, it depends if Intellivision really try to please people who are now called "casual gamers". If they do, then yes, I do believe many casual gamers could buy the Amico... and I already explained why. Read my previous post.

 

No game for the Amico is out yet. We saw short footage of alpha versions of a few games, but nothing more. However, there are two games that Intellivision deemed presentable enough to release demos : Moon Patrol and Breakout. MattPilz did mention that there was a game called "Arcanoid Breakout" on the Switch. I found a video of this game on YouTube.

 

First, this is Breakout on the Amico (and again, most probably still in the alpha stage) :

 

 

Second, the video of Arcanoid Breakout on the Switch (which is a released game and available on Nintendo store) :

 

 

 

I know you are very highly biased against the Amico, but there's a moment when the opinion becomes so absurd that it can only make you lose all your credibility.

 

An interesting fact about Candy Crush is that "by September 2016, King released its 2000th level for the game to celebrate the milestone of over 1 trillion Candy Crush Saga games having been played." 2000 levels and 1 trillion games played. I mean these numbers are so high that they are almost unbelievable. And this is just one "casual" game. Looking at the number of downloads of many other "casual" games, I'd say that a lot of casual gamers are really dedicated to playing games.

 

As I said, many people here have no clue what a casual gamer is and more importantly why they are qualified as "casual gamers". You say that I "clearly struggle with definitions." I don't. I'm someone who learned that dictionaries are not good tools when the discussion is about semantics.

 

And why do you think they are not interested to "invest" in this hobby? You make the assertion that they won't invest in this hobby, but you don't seem to base this assertion on anything. It looks to me your opinion is based only on ignorance.

 

This conclusion is invalid since your reasoning is based only on an arbitrary hypothesis.

 

I really hope Intellivision release an educational game about logical reasoning, because there are an awful lot of people here who obviously do not understand even basic logic.

 

Casual gamers buy tablets that cost more than the Switch. They don't buy tablets only to play games, but playing games is still an important reason why people buy tablets.

 

You are obviously a fan of Nintendo, so I do understand why you want to champion the Switch, particularly because I know Nintendo fans are often ridiculed by owners of Sony or Microsoft consoles on the Internet, but you have to accept the fact that Nintendo mainly appeal to a specific demographic. For people outside of this demographic, including casual gamers, the Switch is not seen as something interesting.

 

So because three people (who I suspect are hardcore gamers) decided to make a list of "casual games" they like, you come to the conclusion that there can't be better games? Do you know what non sequitur means?

 

They do put up with ads and microtransactions, but that doesn't mean "they don't really care that much". You conclusion is, again, non sequitur.

 

Now I would agree that casual gamers would not pay $250 for an Amico only to have the exact same games they have on their phones or tablets, but with ads removed. However, the stated goal of Intellivision is not just to port Android games, it is to innovate. It is to offer something more to casual gamers. It is to offer something that is tailored to them.

 

I don't know if Intellivision will be able to find developers good enough to create good games for the group of people we now label as "casual gamers". Having a good idea is easy, actually implementing the idea is fucking hard. However, up to now it's the only company who clearly states this is their main focus for their console.

 

I did criticize some choices made by Intellivision. For example, I criticized Intellivision for giving too much place to retro-games. I criticize Intellivision for not having educational games for adults (for now it looks like Brain Duel is the only one that could fit this category). I criticized Intellivision for trying to please people too much (my point was that if you try to please everyone individually, instead of trying to find a compromise for everyone, then everyone will want to play their favorite game and people will not play together). I certainly made some comments that were quite vitriolic. However, I don't remember ever being called a hater.

 

As I already explained to you, it's OK to criticize. It's OK to voice your opinion. However, when you repeat the same criticism again, and again, and again, when you ignore responses to your criticism that you repeat again, and again, and again, then it's because you are motivated by an agenda.

 

I don't remember Atari or the guy behind the Coleco Chameleon to ever talk about parents. It looks to me you are trying to create a false association in order to later attack Intellivision based on the false association you created. This is a really dishonest behavior.

 

And now you are trying the false accusation of sexism. Cancel culture much? Personally, I utterly despise people who do this kind of shit.

 

You seriously deform reality here. Overall, I'd say the post-E3 comments were somewhat more positive than negative. And let's be honest, the post-E3 comments were pretty much the same as the pre-E3 comments. People who were anti-Amico continued to be anti-Amico and people who were pro-Amico continued to be pro-Amico.

 

I didn't research review per se, I just tried to find videos of gameplays. For the only game where I looked at reviews, I mentioned one positive review and one negative reviews. Overall, I don't trust review much, unless they are truly detailed. Oh, and I don't trust "professional" reviews at all.

 

I don't deny that some people like Clubhouse Games 51. I mean there are people who think McDonalds is good food.

 

I'm someone who plays board games. I don't have a big collection, maybe only 40 games, but I still talk a lot about them. When I propose playing board games to people, many of them still think of games like Monopoly, Risk, Parcheesi, Cluedo, Trivial Pursuit or other board games that we can buy at Walmart. They are not aware that there was a huge evolution with board gaming in the 90s. Personally, I'm always astonished that people still view these old games as interesting, but the reality is some do. However, when I introduce them to modern games, then they realize how shitty these old games really are.

 

I don't deny that some people like Clubhouse Games 51, but I will say that these people's opinions are only the result of being uneducated. If one day these people try modern board games, I guarantee you that the vast majority of them will view board games included in Clubhouse Games 51 in a completely different light.

 

I already answered that question, so Ctrl-c, Ctrl-v (I even leave the grammatical mistakes) : I don't have an Amico and I didn't played any game on an Amico up to now. My interest for the Amico is based only on the stated goals and its potential for innovation in gaming.

 

On your part, you act as if you have played Amico games and therefore are in a position to judge them. I don't do that. The only two games I can somewhat judge are Moon Patrol and Breakout. And even then, I'm aware the demos I played were from alpha versions, also there was no multiplayer demo, so I won't feel confident asserting anything.

 

If Amico games end up being as shitty as Clubhouse Games 51, then I will be the first one to flame Intellivision.

 

I'm (partially) a retro-gamer. Bad graphics don't bother me. The corollary is I don't care much for good graphics. I'm only interested with playing games, not looking at them.

 

My problem with Clubhouse Games 51 is the games themselves. Again, board games have evolved a lot and they continue to evolve. Even games like Catan or Carcassonne have now been superseded by better games. As for the mini games, they are just that : mini games. These kinds of games can work in the course of a party game, but otherwise they don't work. Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly aware that casual gamers do play games like Mahjong or Solitaire. However, the versions included in Clubhouse Games 51 are inferior to those we can find on mobile or PC.

Wow.  So much to unpack here. 

 

Over 90 million people have bought a Switch so far, a console that often times has not been able to ship enough to meet its demand 4 years after launch.  But, those sales must all be to "Nintendo fans", because no one else outside of the Nintendo fanbase sees the Switch as "something interesting".  Okay...  I guess that's why the Gamecube and Wii U sold like gangbusters, because of that 90m+ bulwark of Nintendo fans who buy anything with Nintendo's logo on it...

 

If you don't remember Atari talking about casuals and parents during the VCS development, then you weren't paying attention to it:

 

"Artz explained that “it’s a much more casual device.” Atari wants this to be a system that anyone can easily plug in, understand, and start using right away. He gave an example explaining that they want moms to be able to turn on the VCS and easily find Netflix"

GDC 2018: The Atari VCS Probably Isn't What You Think It Is - IGN

 

You frequent a retro enthusiast forum, where people still have fun playing their Atari 2600, Intellivisions, and ColecoVisions (among a host of other old consoles), yet you don't understand how anyone could still enjoy playing a game of Monopoly with their family, or Risk with their friends?  Because if they do, they are somehow similar to a Neanderthal using primitive stone tools?  Yikes.

 

That's a lot of animus directed against Clubhouse Games: 51 Worldwide Classics by the way.  Okay, so the games are mini games.  Not sure what kind of expectations anyone else would have from a compilation of 50 games being sold for $39.99.  Of course something bite-sized like Four in a Row (Connect Four) would be in there rather than Twilight Imperium.  According to Metacritic, the User Reviews (7.6) skew heavily positive as well as the Critic Reviews (82).  As of March 2021, Nintendo reported that over 3 million copies had been sold.  That's a pretty good indication that the game was well received for what it was supposed to be.  It's going to be an interesting footnote on this forum if the Amico itself sells less than that one game that is according to you, a pile of shovelware.

 

I say that as someone who has been on gaming forums long enough to remember how people were talking about how much the Ouya was going to revolutionize gaming.  It sold less than 200,000 units and was discontinued in 2 years.  Now, it's a $30 doorstop on eBay, because it's digital storefront closed in June 2019.  That part is relevant, because it is the exact sort of thing that people worry about happening to any console that doesn't have fully physical media.

 

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3 hours ago, Papy said:

So can you explain to me why these people who didn't know about the console had a "very negative" response instead of simply having no interest in the product?

 

These were streams being actively watched by hundreds of thousands of people interested in what's on the horizon for gaming. They comment about every segment and video as a matter of discussion. You can find one of the largest live streams still available ~500k views with chat replay here starting at 2:43:23 - https://youtu.be/bKVjrZH_S9M?t=9806. Again this is just thousands of people sharing their spontaneous thoughts while watching it in real-time. This was without the $250 price point even mentioned in the presentation, which carries a whole new level of concern over adoption rate compared to when it was anticipated to cost less than half of any other console. Here's also the replay from E3's channel, which had less traffic. https://youtu.be/2LJdLhmZiPs?t=5884

 

This thread has been completely derailed into obsessive Clubhouse discussion and nitpicking via walls of text. You keep zeroing in on the board games, which are only a small subset of the 51 included. Even those games seem comparable to what we can expect with Amico's standalone titles. Based on best sellers and popularity, the classics are still the safest bet for return on investment. I personally am not interested in video board games very much, aside from ones that support Internet play to enjoy with those who can't be present to play the physical products.

 

I had pre-ordered the woodgrain Amico on June 2. Am hoping for the best and enjoy following its progress, but these really extensive dead-end debates where you get down to talking about "dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin and endorphins" just to pinpoint the supposed market for it aren't particularly invigorating. Hopefully Intellivision will drop some new videos of gameplay or an update on the deployment status, so there are some new discussion points.

 

---

 

Getting back to OP's thread topic - "Will Amico launch holiday 2021?"

 

Each week that passes without an update on the status diminishes the likelihood of any pre-orders getting into the hands of consumers this year. I'd feel more confident if we had seen any activity for the hardware certifications to get that done and dusted. It'd be nice to have regular updates on the status of the hardware and logistics. I am monitoring several other hardware products from Kickstarter and really appreciate the updates down to the status of LCDs and other components each week and month even with the delays.

 

 

Insert other media

Edited by MattPilz
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3 hours ago, Papy said:

Since the beginning, there is a small group of people who are dedicated in attacking the Amico. I don't know why. I mean I can understand that someone is not interested in a product. For example, I have zero interest in having a PS5, an Xbox or a Switch. I'm a "PC Master Race" kind of guy. However, actually following a product in order to attack it, that I can't understand. To me, this behavior is a sign of a psychological problem.

 

However, psychological problems are not that common. I still think the majority of people are still somewhat sane.

 

You say the chat of the two streams were very negative. You also say that the majority of viewers were learning about the console. Now unless the product is associated with political ideas, I tend to believe the reaction to the presentation of the product should go from completely uninterested to excited. The only time I could expect a negative reaction is if the people were at least somewhat interested in the product and the product presentation did not meet their expectations.

 

So can you explain to me why these people who didn't know about the console had a "very negative" response instead of simply having no interest in the product?

 

And I would be uneducated about what exactly? There are an awful lot of people who never played modern board games and who don't even know these modern board games exist. I believe it is fair to say that these people are uneducated about board games. Due to their lack of knowledge, I do not consider their opinions as having much worth. However, can you explain to me why the fact that I have a greater knowledge than them about board games would justify them to say I'm uneducated?

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't pretend to be an expert on board games. I'm not Tom Vassel or another board game expert. However, that doesn't change that I know more about board games than the vast majority of people. So again, why would that make me "the truly uneducated one"?

 

I did play most of the board games that are in this compilation. I was always passionate about games. As for the mini games, they are so simple that I feel confident in declaring that they are just mini games. If you disagree, can you tell me which mini game you think in this compilation has enough depth to be something that can played again and again?

 

Oh, I totally agree that retro-games are not as popular as they were when they were not retro-games. In fact, this is why I think that if Intellivision give to much space to retro-games, then the console will fail.

 

However, you did compare Arcanoid Breakout on the Switch to Amico's Breakout. This is how you validated your point... And this is why I responded to it. This argument / counter-argument is how we are supposed to have a discussion in order to come to a truth.

 

First, I don't think you understand what bias means. Second, no, I don't consider the difference is purely on visuals.

 

One thing that makes Amico's Breakout stand out from all other Breakout games is the music / sound. It's not a "zen" game because the action quickly becomes frantic (I wish there would be a "zen" mode with this game), it's not a rythm game, but there is still a quasi hypnotic quality in this game, particularly after playing a few times (when we need less concentration to play and therefore when we can "let go".

 

The gameplay of Amico's Breakout is also obviously better calibrated. Because the speed of the ball, exept for the three or four first hit, there is rarely a waiting period. More importantly, because of the spin, the game suffers less from a feeling of being "stuck" (due to not being able to have the correct angle). And this is from an alpha version.

 

Calibrating a gameplay is very difficult. It's much more difficult than having good graphics and ultimately gameplay is what really matters. Two games with "largely the same mechanics" can produce two completely different experience simply because of this calibration. In the case of Amico's Breakout, I'd say the calibration is really good. From the video of Arcanoid Breakout, I guess it is even worse than the original Arkanoid (which in my mind was not very good).

 

A survey comparing a demo level from a game in its alpha stage against a finished game?

 

I don't think you realize the full depth of the psychology behind game design. I'll take a game like Gardenscapes as an example. It's just another match-3 game. It's basically the same mechanics as Bejewel. Yet, this game creates an engagement that Bejewel could never do. The reason is because Gardenscapes implements a reward system and a progression system using meta goals and a story, something that bejewel never did.

 

In some way, the reason Gardenscapes work is because it kind change the role of the game. Sure, the match-3 puzzle can be fun to do at first, but after a while it becomes boring. So the solution is more or less to present the game as "work" to get the reward. This combination of work / reward is what fools the brain into thinking that something useful was done.

 

We know next to nothing about Farkle or Spades, and absolutely nothing about Mahjong. However, it would really surprise me if a system or reward and progression is not implemented with these games. And in the end, it's not the game itself which is important, but the system of rewards and progression.

 

How do you know the Amico version of these games will be inferior to what we find on mobile or PC?

 

The point I'm trying to make is that Clubhouse Games 51 is bad. I thought I was quite clear about that.

 

An afternoon just learning the instructions? I wonder what game you played. For most gateway games, it's between 5 and 15 minutes. Some games are somewhat complex, like Netrunner or Neuroshima Hex, some are very complex, like ASL, but overall many video games are more complex than gateway games.

 

And again, the popularity of classic board games comes only from ignorance. People just don't know there are much better games. And no, classic board games are not "incredibly enjoyable".

 

I see you can't think of any counter-argument.

 

You were floored by Clubhouse Games 51? My god! When was the last time you played a video game? 1990?

 


Hey Papy, try not having a wall of text its horrible to scroll through.    But you already knew that.

Edited by Rev

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