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Will Amico launch holiday 2021?

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10 hours ago, Papy said:

I'm completely serious and I fully believe what I say. If you read my post, you will realize that I use facts and logical reasoning to support my opinion. On your part, you just qualify my opinion as "insane", but you don't base your  "opinion" that what I say is insane on anything. You don't even try to challenge anything I say. You just throw an insult.

 

It depends on the direction Intellivision takes with the Amico. More precisely, it depends if Intellivision really try to please people who are now called "casual gamers". If they do, then yes, I do believe many casual gamers could buy the Amico... and I already explained why. Read my previous post.

 

No game for the Amico is out yet. We saw short footage of alpha versions of a few games, but nothing more. However, there are two games that Intellivision deemed presentable enough to release demos : Moon Patrol and Breakout. MattPilz did mention that there was a game called "Arcanoid Breakout" on the Switch. I found a video of this game on YouTube.

 

First, this is Breakout on the Amico (and again, most probably still in the alpha stage) :

 

 

Second, the video of Arcanoid Breakout on the Switch (which is a released game and available on Nintendo store) :

 

 

 

I know you are very highly biased against the Amico, but there's a moment when the opinion becomes so absurd that it can only make you lose all your credibility.

 

An interesting fact about Candy Crush is that "by September 2016, King released its 2000th level for the game to celebrate the milestone of over 1 trillion Candy Crush Saga games having been played." 2000 levels and 1 trillion games played. I mean these numbers are so high that they are almost unbelievable. And this is just one "casual" game. Looking at the number of downloads of many other "casual" games, I'd say that a lot of casual gamers are really dedicated to playing games.

 

As I said, many people here have no clue what a casual gamer is and more importantly why they are qualified as "casual gamers". You say that I "clearly struggle with definitions." I don't. I'm someone who learned that dictionaries are not good tools when the discussion is about semantics.

 

And why do you think they are not interested to "invest" in this hobby? You make the assertion that they won't invest in this hobby, but you don't seem to base this assertion on anything. It looks to me your opinion is based only on ignorance.

 

This conclusion is invalid since your reasoning is based only on an arbitrary hypothesis.

 

I really hope Intellivision release an educational game about logical reasoning, because there are an awful lot of people here who obviously do not understand even basic logic.

 

Casual gamers buy tablets that cost more than the Switch. They don't buy tablets only to play games, but playing games is still an important reason why people buy tablets.

 

You are obviously a fan of Nintendo, so I do understand why you want to champion the Switch, particularly because I know Nintendo fans are often ridiculed by owners of Sony or Microsoft consoles on the Internet, but you have to accept the fact that Nintendo mainly appeal to a specific demographic. For people outside of this demographic, including casual gamers, the Switch is not seen as something interesting.

 

So because three people (who I suspect are hardcore gamers) decided to make a list of "casual games" they like, you come to the conclusion that there can't be better games? Do you know what non sequitur means?

 

They do put up with ads and microtransactions, but that doesn't mean "they don't really care that much". You conclusion is, again, non sequitur.

 

Now I would agree that casual gamers would not pay $250 for an Amico only to have the exact same games they have on their phones or tablets, but with ads removed. However, the stated goal of Intellivision is not just to port Android games, it is to innovate. It is to offer something more to casual gamers. It is to offer something that is tailored to them.

 

I don't know if Intellivision will be able to find developers good enough to create good games for the group of people we now label as "casual gamers". Having a good idea is easy, actually implementing the idea is fucking hard. However, up to now it's the only company who clearly states this is their main focus for their console.

 

I did criticize some choices made by Intellivision. For example, I criticized Intellivision for giving too much place to retro-games. I criticize Intellivision for not having educational games for adults (for now it looks like Brain Duel is the only one that could fit this category). I criticized Intellivision for trying to please people too much (my point was that if you try to please everyone individually, instead of trying to find a compromise for everyone, then everyone will want to play their favorite game and people will not play together). I certainly made some comments that were quite vitriolic. However, I don't remember ever being called a hater.

 

As I already explained to you, it's OK to criticize. It's OK to voice your opinion. However, when you repeat the same criticism again, and again, and again, when you ignore responses to your criticism that you repeat again, and again, and again, then it's because you are motivated by an agenda.

 

I don't remember Atari or the guy behind the Coleco Chameleon to ever talk about parents. It looks to me you are trying to create a false association in order to later attack Intellivision based on the false association you created. This is a really dishonest behavior.

 

And now you are trying the false accusation of sexism. Cancel culture much? Personally, I utterly despise people who do this kind of shit.

 

You seriously deform reality here. Overall, I'd say the post-E3 comments were somewhat more positive than negative. And let's be honest, the post-E3 comments were pretty much the same as the pre-E3 comments. People who were anti-Amico continued to be anti-Amico and people who were pro-Amico continued to be pro-Amico.

 

I didn't research review per se, I just tried to find videos of gameplays. For the only game where I looked at reviews, I mentioned one positive review and one negative reviews. Overall, I don't trust review much, unless they are truly detailed. Oh, and I don't trust "professional" reviews at all.

 

I don't deny that some people like Clubhouse Games 51. I mean there are people who think McDonalds is good food.

 

I'm someone who plays board games. I don't have a big collection, maybe only 40 games, but I still talk a lot about them. When I propose playing board games to people, many of them still think of games like Monopoly, Risk, Parcheesi, Cluedo, Trivial Pursuit or other board games that we can buy at Walmart. They are not aware that there was a huge evolution with board gaming in the 90s. Personally, I'm always astonished that people still view these old games as interesting, but the reality is some do. However, when I introduce them to modern games, then they realize how shitty these old games really are.

 

I don't deny that some people like Clubhouse Games 51, but I will say that these people's opinions are only the result of being uneducated. If one day these people try modern board games, I guarantee you that the vast majority of them will view board games included in Clubhouse Games 51 in a completely different light.

 

I already answered that question, so Ctrl-c, Ctrl-v (I even leave the grammatical mistakes) : I don't have an Amico and I didn't played any game on an Amico up to now. My interest for the Amico is based only on the stated goals and its potential for innovation in gaming.

 

On your part, you act as if you have played Amico games and therefore are in a position to judge them. I don't do that. The only two games I can somewhat judge are Moon Patrol and Breakout. And even then, I'm aware the demos I played were from alpha versions, also there was no multiplayer demo, so I won't feel confident asserting anything.

 

If Amico games end up being as shitty as Clubhouse Games 51, then I will be the first one to flame Intellivision.

 

I'm (partially) a retro-gamer. Bad graphics don't bother me. The corollary is I don't care much for good graphics. I'm only interested with playing games, not looking at them.

 

My problem with Clubhouse Games 51 is the games themselves. Again, board games have evolved a lot and they continue to evolve. Even games like Catan or Carcassonne have now been superseded by better games. As for the mini games, they are just that : mini games. These kinds of games can work in the course of a party game, but otherwise they don't work. Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly aware that casual gamers do play games like Mahjong or Solitaire. However, the versions included in Clubhouse Games 51 are inferior to those we can find on mobile or PC.


These kind of posts are unbearable to scroll through. 

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4 minutes ago, Rev said:

These kind of posts are unbearable to scroll through. 

Was that advertising? It seemed like advertising. 

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Just now, Flojomojo said:

Was that advertising? It seemed like advertising. 


The rumor is that Papy is an investor. 

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55 minutes ago, Rev said:


Hey Papy, try not having a wall of text its horrible to scroll through.    But you already knew that.

One day, someone will put all that time and effort into those walls of text, and the other pissing contest participant fellow conversation compadre will just reply with “Yeah, I see your point.”  And all that wasted life will suddenly seem like time well spent to someone.

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1 hour ago, Rev said:


These kind of posts are unbearable to scroll through. 

So are the nudes you keep sending me and yet you won't stop. 

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11 hours ago, Papy said:

 

 

I don't remember Atari or the guy behind the Coleco Chameleon to ever talk about parents. It looks to me you are trying to create a false association in order to later attack Intellivision based on the false association you created. This is a really dishonest behavior.

 

And now you are trying the false accusation of sexism. Cancel culture much? Personally, I utterly despise people who do this kind of shit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't remember?  It was a key part of the early VCS pitch.  Here is a quote:

 

"Artz explained that “it’s a much more casual device.” Atari wants this to be a system that anyone can easily plug in, understand, and start using right away. He gave an example explaining that they want moms to be able to turn on the VCS and easily find Netflix"

GDC 2018: The Atari VCS Probably Isn't What You Think It Is - IGN

 

How many times did we hear from Coleco "remember when?  Remember when games were FUN?"  Discussions on Amico about how modern controllers have too many buttons, how there are too many games to go through in the menus, etc . . . like modern parents (and if its a family console you are targeting parents because 5 year olds can't buy systems) aren't able to navigate a menu or understand a search function.  I always felt those tones were off.  No need for strident moral outrage.  Also, please keep in mind, I am not talking about a person- I'm talking about the advertising messages used by some of these console makers.  I would include Ouya in that as well.  Again, this has nothing to do with the actual games- I agree that Breakout looks good, I would totally buy that if I could.

 

To go back to my quote- why would moms need extra help to find Netflix?  You don't think that sounds a bit sexist?  I'm not cancelling anything, just sharing my reaction to those pitches.  My point was in agreement to the one above, which was that I feel like the view of parents (moms) is like a generation behind where we are.

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12 hours ago, Papy said:

So because three people (who I suspect are hardcore gamers) decided to make a list of "casual games" they like, you come to the conclusion that there can't be better games? Do you know what non sequitur means?

One of the funniest thing about your posts is the insistence on trying to act as a hardcore logicbro, and invoke all these fancy-sounding constructs, such as non sequiturs, strawmen, fallacies, etc, etc. This style was kinda amusing about 10 years ago, but is rather tiresome now, because most people who use it - yourself included - fail completely 9/10 times.

 

I'm not going to launch into a page long tedious quote-by-quote reply pointing out all your absurdisms, so just picked the above  one randomly.

-it's not "3 people", it's a list of some of the most popular casual games out there. And there's much, much more.

-these games are vastly superior to Amico's current lineup.

-the conclusion: most casual gamers won't be interested in Amico's games

 

(If my prediction is right or wrong is irrelevant. What is, is that it does certainly follow from one point to another though, hence it's not a non sequiteur, hence perhaps it'd be more advised for you to actually start with those dictionaries you distrust so much first, and only then tackle applied logic.)

 

This was the gist of my reply, regarding the current state of play, and not what your disingenious take has implied. But ok, if you want to talk about future, here it is: I think it's highly unlikely that Amico will host some high quality games on the level of the ones from that list, for numerous reasons: small user base, outdated hardware, restrictive "commandments" regarding development.

 

You're welcome to post yet another PgDwn x3-long reply. I'm pretty sure it will be as amusing as your other ones.

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This is just meant for a little comic relief. Lately things over at Intellivision are reminding me of this Star Wars review by Plinkett. Substitute George Lucas with Tommy and swap the editor with Nick Richards.

 

"I may have gone too far in a few places"

 

Again, just some comic relief to have fun with. We'll have new gameplay videos soon.

 

 

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On 9/26/2021 at 2:22 PM, jerseystyle said:

Yeah I have two young kids and I really don’t get how VCS, Amico, Chameleon, etc, still go on about parents not knowing what video games are. The whole “Netflix Mom” trope is sexist and backwards. The people who are parents of young kiddos now grew up in the 80s and 90s- when gaming exploded. We’ve seen Pong evolve into RDR2 for Christ sake. Give 40 year old women some credit.  It’s such a weird marketing take to say us 40 year olds don’t get how e shop menus work or haven’t ever pressed a button before.  This is not about the quality of the games themselves just the super condescending marketing.

What Amico marketing are you referring to?

 

Their goal is to make games that are inclusive to everyone.  There are certainly people of all ages that don't play video games at all and having to explain and reexplain which button does what which direction input to use is a reality with some people.  Making games that would interest both experienced gamers and non-gamers so they can play together doesn't sound easy but it is their goal.  Atari didn't have any plan to develop games, their system is compatible with thousands of existing games is what they said.

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That’s not game design, that’s a century-old advertising trope. Every casual game strives to be easy to pick up, hard to put down. A minute to learn, a lifetime to master. Fun for the whole family, for ages 4 and up. 
 

It is easy to say that’s what you want to build, but it’s very difficult to execute on that vision. That’s why Nintendo is a success and Amico is just unrealized potential. 

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8 hours ago, Papy said:

You were floored by Clubhouse Games 51? My god! When was the last time you played a video game? 1990?

Says the guy who thinks Moon Patrol looks good. 🙄

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2 hours ago, youxia said:

I think it's highly unlikely that Amico will host some high quality games on the level of the ones from that list, for numerous reasons: small user base, outdated hardware, restrictive "commandments" regarding development.

The sole fact the games have to be under $10 kinda guarantee it will be shovelware to be honest. Unless they know the magic formula to develop a great game in less than 6 months. But since they haven't been able to complete one game almost a year after the console was supposed to be available...

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36 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

That’s not game design, that’s a century-old advertising trope. Every casual game strives to be easy to pick up, hard to put down. A minute to learn, a lifetime to master. Fun for the whole family, for ages 4 and up. 
 

It is easy to say that’s what you want to build, but it’s very difficult to execute on that vision. That’s why Nintendo is a success and Amico is just unrealized potential. 

It is part of their multiplayer game design.  And they do say it's not easy.  They might not even get it perfectly right to start.

 

2 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

The sole fact the games have to be under $10 kinda guarantee it will be shovelware to be honest. Unless they know the magic formula to develop a great game in less than 6 months. But since they haven't been able to complete one game almost a year after the console was supposed to be available...

People played about a dozen games at events that they say felt complete to them.

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10 minutes ago, mr_me said:

 

People played about a dozen games at events that they say felt complete to them.

How the games "feel" is irrelevant.  ARE they complete?  

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38 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

Says the guy who thinks Moon Patrol looks good. 🙄

sometimes the lack of self awareness under this umbrella  is mind numbing :)

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1 hour ago, mr_me said:

What Amico marketing are you referring to?

 

Their goal is to make games that are inclusive to everyone.  There are certainly people of all ages that don't play video games at all and having to explain and reexplain which button does what which direction input to use is a reality with some people.  Making games that would interest both experienced gamers and non-gamers so they can play together doesn't sound easy but it is their goal.  Atari didn't have any plan to develop games, their system is compatible with thousands of existing games is what they said.

Not directly quoting the Amico- I was responding to what someone above had said about how many of these "retro consoles" (and I know that Amico Intellivision themselves are not calling the Amico a retro console) have marketed themselves, as per my VCS quote.  Every couple of years it seems I end up hearing some variation of "games are too hard now, too many buttons, families don't play together anymore", etc.  To be fair, Amico leaned on this much less than the other systems did, for sure.  I have just always felt this was a weird point to make at all because most people in their 40s/50s are reasonably comfortable with technology.  I know nothing about marketing, so I don't have an answer to the "casual" issue, but every few years we get a company who has claimed to crack the casual market, and uses that 1 BILLION phone game players stat, and who will reach those gamers in a way no one else has, and we still end up with the same type of games all the systems have.  I'm not calling that a bad thing, though, since I love all sorts of video games.  To me, the more the merrier.  Currently, the only system I am seeing with games that have what I would describe as a "unique feel" would be the Playdate, but that is definitely a niche product and being explained as such.  I am still hoping for that feel from Amico games.  But as you've said before I am not their target market (and I agree with you on that), since I'd want them to go more down the retro path.

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8 hours ago, Rev said:

Ive been inspired to buy an actual REAL PHYSICAL slot cars track!  
 

Screw the video game versions!
 

 

 

 

D21A7B56-FCAC-405F-8078-E9E8ED616671.jpeg

How cool is that!  I never knew Hot Wheel's made a slot track.

 

In the 70's I had an AFX track and later another AFX Magnatraction.  My last track was a Tyco track with Lap Counter.

I really had a lot of fun with these as a kid.  But certainly the older cars that FLEW off the track or spun out were more fun and skill required.

 

But those last cars I had were very fast and you could layout the track upside down if you really wanted to. 

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1 hour ago, godslabrat said:

How the games "feel" is irrelevant.  ARE they complete?  

And the dozen games doesn't even include three of the packin games, which were played by a group of people, just haven't heard any feedback.

 

Some of these games might have looked different had they gone into production in the summer. 

Edited by mr_me

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7 minutes ago, mr_me said:

And the dozen games doesn't even include three of the packin games, which were played by a group of people, just haven't heard any feedback.

 

Some of these games might have looked different had they gone into production in the summer. 

None of that answers the question of "Are they done?".  This is something Intellivision should really focus on to build confidence.

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45 minutes ago, godslabrat said:

None of that answers the question of "Are they done?".  This is something Intellivision should really focus on to build confidence.

I'd say "no, they're not done."  I figure they'll be like virtually every other game and get to "good enough to release, and we'll fix it later if needed."

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1 hour ago, godslabrat said:

None of that answers the question of "Are they done?".  This is something Intellivision should really focus on to build confidence.

And they have two versions of cornhole.

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18 hours ago, 1980gamer said:

How cool is that!  I never knew Hot Wheel's made a slot track.

 

In the 70's I had an AFX track and later another AFX Magnatraction.  My last track was a Tyco track with Lap Counter.

I really had a lot of fun with these as a kid.  But certainly the older cars that FLEW off the track or spun out were more fun and skill required.

 

But those last cars I had were very fast and you could layout the track upside down if you really wanted to. 

It has already been relegated to the historical scrap pile of Hot Wheels products, but you should look into Hot Wheels AI: https://www.amazon.com/Hot-Wheels-Intelligent-System-Starter/dp/B01EHTJG18/ That thing rules and totally works well. I liked it so much I bought a second while it was heading into Clearance.

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