Jump to content
Beeblebrox

Windows 10 driver hell (Usb serial port and USB serial converter) for Atarimax SIO2PC

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

ok so I've spent a good few days on this and far as I am aware have exhausted all avenues. I've looked extensively on AA for past threads, on the net, and on Atarimax forums.

 

I'll briefly summarise. I have a lot more hassle getting these steps right, but for summaty purposes it went like this:

 

I have an 800XL with U1MB and a built in SIO2PC board. Up until this evening I didn't know what model it was. It has a USB-B port. (I've since found out it is an Atarimax SIO2PC board. More on that later). 

 

So for the past few days without being able to identify the board I've been trying to hook it up via the USB cable from my Windows 10 laptop's USB port to the USB-B port on the card.

 

I read it needed the FTDI Virtual com port drivers here which I downloaded and ran the installation executable for. It looked like they were confirmed as installed, but nothing ever showed up after in device manager (ie no USB serial converter or USB serial port), even after reboots and unpluggung/plugging in the USB cable, etc, etc).

 

Plugging in the USB initially shows up a new SIO2PC interface in device manager but with an alert, (which indicates driver are absent)

 

So after more reading up I managed to download the drivers separately from the FTDI website (CDM v2.12.36.4 WHQL Certified) and following the guide here on page 9 of the guide I installed the USB serial converter. I then went into the settings for the USB serial converter  under device manager and enabled the "load VCP" option. 

 

The USB serial port then appeared when I plugged and unplugged the USB cable, again with an alert indicating missing drivers. I repeated the process to manually load the drivers from the WHQL certified ones mentioned earlier.

 

Under the USB serial port once installed I made sure it was pointing to Com3 port.

 

In RespeQt's options under tools I also ensured it was set to COM3.

 

It appears that the SIO2PC board and Windows are handshaking and i have mounted ATRs and XEXs. 

image.thumb.png.f2135a17bafb9dcde8276110f0fdb52d.png

 

...but powering up the Atari does nothing. It either just goers to the Basic ready prompt or, if enabled SpartaDOS-X, but I get 138 errors. Also the RespeQt activity log never does anything when I power up the Atari.

 

So as I say I then found with some help that I had an AtariMax SIO2PC board, so downloaded the 64bit drivers from the AtariMax forum. I removed the USB serial port and USB serial converter and their drivers via device manager, and installed the signed Atarimax drivers. Sure enough the device is listed as Atarimax SIO2PC in device manager. But even after a reboot and uplugging/plugging in the USB, I now do not get the USB serial port nor the USB serial converter set up.

 

So with the Atarimax driver installed I now don't get ResepQt appearing to handshake with the board. (Obviously because there is no VCP loaded or USB serial port is absent and isn't pointing to the Com3, etc etc.)

 

Therefore I've removed the Atarimax driver and added back the original.

 

I'd tried this on another Windows 10 laptop and had exactly the same issue.

 

So all I can assume is one or more of the following:

 

The Atarimax board has a hook up that has come loose

Windows 10 drivers are to blame

Atarimax drivers and Windows 10 aren't playing ball

 

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. I have looked into the threads on the subject of signed drivers, and all the usual.

 

Given I can get RespeQt appearing to indicate a handshake and the option setting appear correct, I am not sure what else I can do:

 

image.thumb.png.dade4d0c66bcd826e7b2402bf06fc9f2.png

 

EDIT: Incidentally I also then tried to install the USB serial port and converter drivers alongside the Atarimax driver, which of course rendered the latter unable to start as indicated in the device manager.

 

thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Beeblebrox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Roydea6

I saw there is a demo version of Ape so yes I could try that. Thanks. 

However I assume the Atarimax sio2pc board is supposed to work with RespeQt?

 

Aside that in the long run ideally I don't want to have to pay for a full version of Ape if RespeQt should work. 

 

I think it's Windows 10 being a pain with the drivers. (Wouldn't be the 1st time). 

 

It's a pity I no longer have any Windows 7 installations knocking around. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The ATARIMAX devices are designed with APE in mind. They do work with Respeqt but you will always run into issues like this which is why I no longer use SIO2PC at all. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@orpheuswaking

I see. I think because only until this eve I was aware this was an Atarimax device I had just run on the understanding all Sio2pc devices worked with RespeQt. I was thinking it was more of a case of Windows 10 being the main issue. 

 

I will try the demo of ape. 

 

I will also look into whether something has come loose regarding the connections with the board itself and the 800XLs pcb and poss U1MB

 

Thanks for the help. 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Well, uninstalled the windows USB serial port and serial converter drivers in device manager and reinstalled the Atarimax SIO 64bit driver.

 

Then downloaded the trail Ape for windows version and ran through the setup wizard for the USB version.

 

Worked straight away! :grin: If only I'd known this was an Atarimax SIO2PC board a few days ago. (Another one to chalk up to experience!)

 

Mounted the original freeware Last Squadron and it loaded up with no probs::music:

 

image.thumb.png.05b6c9aa8620df6e227e83bba64b1c71.png

 

So I vaguely recall paying for the DOS version of APE BITD. (We are talking 20+ years ago). I definitely played around with the APE interface back in the mists of time.

 

Looking at thread posts like this one, it appears once you purchase an APE licence it's for a lifetime. So it may well be that if Steven has my original licence still on record I can just upgrade from the DOS version to the windows version and pay the lesser amount if I recall). 

 

It's a real pity I can't use RespeQt as it does appear to have more features. Not that APE doesn't look good. I was just hoping to avoid spending more cash than I already have. I guess beggars can't be choosers. 

 

Thanks for your help AA. :thumbsup:

Edited by Beeblebrox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a lot of hassle. I don't have to manually install any drivers at all with Windows 10: SIO2PC (USB, FTDI) is literally plug and play. Using APE seems like a brutal workaround.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use an SIO2PC adapter I made myself using the FTDI board, connected to a Raspberry Pi400 running TwisterOS, and I just plug and play using RespeQt - No problems at all.

 

I've also tried Windows, and like FJC I didn't manually install drivers at all, it all just worked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

That's a lot of hassle. I don't have to manually install any drivers at all with Windows 10: SIO2PC (USB, FTDI) is literally plug and play. Using APE seems like a brutal workaround.

@flashjazzcat  Hi. Sure. Unfortunately Ape seems my only option with my installed Atarimax sio2pc USB board as per 1st post and days attempting to get it to work installing FTDi drivers automatically and manually. With this Atarimax board nothing is plug and play with the latter until I just installed the Atarimax 64 bit driver and ran it with Ape trial. 

 

I'd love to get it to work with RespeQt but it just doesn't. ☹️ 

 

I could build up an FTDi USB Sio2pc but I've already got this one hardwired into the machine and I need to start to dump lots of disks at present. Have 1000s of disks to look through, (not saying I'll need or dump em all). 😶

Edited by Beeblebrox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I managed to stupidly overlook the rather salient point that it's an AtariMax part. :) You pays your money, etc. :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

your old registration is more than likely there... he had mine... just be prepared to give all the information you had at the time you originally registered it so he can find it (and verify it's really you).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

your old registration is more than likely there... he had mine... just be prepared to give all the information you had at the time you originally registered it so he can find it (and verify it's really you).

Cool... fingers crossed. I've already provided the only details I have as it is decades ago. (I couldn't even begin to recall what the reg number/ref or even the email address would have been at the time mind you!);-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He still had to ship it to you, so if needed your old address might help ;) Might be an upgrade or shipping fee though.. won't be much

Edited by _The Doctor__

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you really want to use RespeQt, or just give it a try and compare it to APE, you can build an FTDI-based SIO2USB cable relatively easily for less than $20, assuming you have a spare SIO connector or an old SIO cable you can sacrifice.

 

I used this cable to make one last year and it works great.

 

I still have and use my AtariMax SIO2PC-USB Dual Port interface and it works great. I love APE and ProSystem software, but RespeQt is pretty great too and works really well. It's a toss up as to which I use sometimes. I just like having options.

 

Edited by bfollowell
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RespeQT is my PCLINK server, APE is usually everything else(except some happy drive stuff)... I run them at the same time.

APE serves one computer via the Atarimax SIO2PC usb version, another computer using the RS232 version, and then finally RespeQT to serve pclink to one or the other and some happy drive stuff.

APE also acts as my internet modem in a pinch

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi. Thanks again for all the help in this thread.

 

Ok, so after a week's distraction fixing my latest acquisition - another 600XL (finally nailed it yesterday - it had several issues:music::D) - I am back on my driver PAL 800XL (U1MB, with the built in Atarimax SIO2PC USB, etc) to get on with dumping disks to ATRs on my laptop.

 

So as per previous post after realising it was an AtariMax SIO2PC USB model above I had got it to connect with the trial APE for Windows by simply installing the Atarimax drivers:

 

image.png.15b3e9c5235780ffecabb6a24642f28d.png

 

In the last hour I've been happy loading up various ATRs, (Numen demo, the Brundles, etc), via Ape for Windows onto my 800XL, and using the swap ATR function for the multiple ATRs which is great, albeit a little slow, (I am rather spoilt loading games from the SIDE3 these days). 

 

image.thumb.png.27cc02fa53c9fbd97cbd9ff2844f5e2f.png

 

Incidentally I've cranked up settings in APE for Windows config which I hoped would speed up loading times but it doesn't appear to make a diffence:

 

image.thumb.png.374dcd316626110d58e7fade512e49cd.png        image.thumb.png.1335a447ec2562d94848f11578ab2559.png     

 

Anyways, the APE for Windows isn't a concern at present because that side of things is clearly working.

 

The main reason for me hooking this all up is to be able to create ATRs and dump 5 1/4 disk contents. 

 

I initially was of the understanding the APE for Windows software itself could do it but since learnt of course it's the accompanying Prosystem for Windows software that does that.

So I eagerly booted it up.

 

Trouble is when I run the Prosystem I get this message:

image.png.f8f6b1f8ca2e8eff5cfa477facbc191b.png

 

Grasping at straws here but I am naturally assuming this has nothing to do with an intentional restriction given it's the tiral version of the software? (Incredibly unlikely given it's giving an error message for the com port, but worth mentioning).  After all you would want to trial the function. As I say...grasping at straws here.:P

 

Anyways I've tried going into the Prosystem settings to change the port but get the same message for all settings.

 

So I am back to the issue with regards to no way in Windows 10 settings to tell the Atarimax it is using a specified (virtual) COM port. (Eg Com3, which the APE for Windows seems to have no problem picking up).

 

There is also no way I can add the USB serial converter then USB serial port and choose COM3 alongside the installation of the SIO2PC interface (Atarimax) driver.

 

Here is my Device manager view, where as you can see it just installs the SIO2USB universal adapter, (fine for APE for Windows), but doesn't install the VCP (Ports Com) or the USB serial converter - both of which I assume is needed so you can get Prosystem to work and recognise a COM port?):

 

image.thumb.png.a7cff35dafe905d328c53772e207ec87.png

 

Not thinking it would work but trying nevertheless, I tried reinstalling the auto exec FDTI VCP driver package, (as I've mentioned earlier in the thread), and also to add both the USB serial converter and USB serial port using the WHQL certified FDTI drivers "just in case".  Of course that doesn't work - wasn't expecting it to tbh. Actually crashed the laptop with a blue screen of death.

 

I guess the Atarimax drivers and FDTI VCP, etc drivers can't exist side by side. TBH I only have a rudementry understanding of this side of the Windows drivers, etc.

 

Basically installing the driver for the Atarimax is automatic and APE for Windows works if you just want to load ATRs on the A8. However I can't get Pro-system to work because of this Windows 10 COM port issue.

 

So frustrating as I've 1000s of 5 1/4" disks to get going on.

 

Anything glaringly obvious?:?  I am scanning the Atarimax website forums for more info and anyone who has similar issues.

 

EDIT: All I wanna do is this:_(;):

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Beeblebrox
adding more info

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My post above timed out for editing rights so just adding this separately:

 

"I did find this on the AtariMax forum regarding avoiding running APE for Windows AND Prosystem at the same time,. (including minimised in the sys tray). To be sure I definitely tried running the prosystem with no trace of APE for Windows running, not even in the system tray, so it's not that."

Edited by Beeblebrox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, first of all, this has nothing to do with your ProSystem not working but, assuming the disks in question, that you want to image, aren't copy-protected, you can easily copy them with APE by using your sector copier of choice and copying from your real disk drive assigned as one drive, and a blank atr image in a virtual drive assigned another number. There's really no reason to use ProSystem over this regular method other than, in my experience, ProSystem may be just a little faster, but not greatly so. I think the main reason for ProSystem's existence is that it was an early way to try and allow you to make images of copy-protected disks. The drawback is that they're only compatible using APE/ProSystem.

 

It seems like I had an issue similar to yours a year or two ago, but I can't recall what I wound up doing to fix it. I do know you should probably go back and delete anything and everything you installed thinking you needed FTDI drivers. All of that stuff certainly isn't helping things at all, and could be messing things up. If you have an AtariMax SIO2PC-USB, then all you need is software/drivers from AtariMax, nothing else.

 

I'll look back and see if I can recall what I did to fix my connection issues a couple  of years ago. If I find anything, I'll post back here.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, bfollowell said:

Well, first of all, this has nothing to do with your ProSystem not working but, assuming the disks in question, that you want to image, aren't copy-protected, you can easily copy them with APE by using your sector copier of choice and copying from your real disk drive assigned as one drive, and a blank atr image in a virtual drive assigned another number. There's really no reason to use ProSystem over this regular method other than, in my experience, ProSystem may be just a little faster, but not greatly so. I think the main reason for ProSystem's existence is that it was an early way to try and allow you to make images of copy-protected disks. The drawback is that they're only compatible using APE/ProSystem.

 

It seems like I had an issue similar to yours a year or two ago, but I can't recall what I wound up doing to fix it. I do know you should probably go back and delete anything and everything you installed thinking you needed FTDI drivers. All of that stuff certainly isn't helping things at all, and could be messing things up. If you have an AtariMax SIO2PC-USB, then all you need is software/drivers from AtariMax, nothing else.

 

I'll look back and see if I can recall what I did to fix my connection issues a couple  of years ago. If I find anything, I'll post back here.

 

@bfollowell

Thanks, that would be greatly appreciated. I have experience of Windows drivers for other hardware in this respect and sometimes there is a lot fiddling about to try and get things right.

 

I'll try and remove any traces of the FDTI related driver certainly. 

 

Great to know I can use a sector copier for the non copy protected disks and bypass prosystem. 

 

I just assumed that the Atarimax drivers had some form of virtual com port driver built in and given it works with APE for Windows I couldn't work out why prosystem is throwing up this com port error. 

 

Thanks 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

@bfollowell

Great to know I can use a sector copier for the non copy protected disks and bypass prosystem. 

 

I just assumed that the Atarimax drivers had some form of virtual com port driver built in and given it works with APE for Windows I couldn't work out why prosystem is throwing up this com port error. 

 

Thanks 

 

 

Yeah, there's really no need to use the ProSystem, but if you're like me, you still want it to work correctly. It is very strange that one works and the other doesn't. I can't remember if that was my issue, or if nothing worked. I remember once, having a lot of trouble getting one or the other or both running, and I finally got it. Then later, my SIO2PC-USB single-port wouldn't do anything and nothing I or Steve tried or he suggested would work. We finally determined that it had just died. I returned it to him and he sent me a dual-port version just because that's all he had in stock at the moment. He was really great to work with, but he can be very hard to get in touch with. He has a very busy life at the moment and hasn't been working with Atari stuff as much lately. I think he has kids at home, so I can certainly understand that. With no kids at home anymore, it's easy to forget how busy family life can be at times. My grandkids are taking up more and more of my time though, so some of the freedom I've had for the past several years is going towards them now, but I'm not complaining.

 

I'll try to look into my past issue this week and see if I still have any old emails from Steve and will check his forums as well.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if your disk drive is not a happy drive, similar to happy, or possibly USDoubler drive... then you can't have high speed ticked

also you can use RESCAN BUS or something like that to search for the device... make sure your drive is set as D1: to get started....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I looked back through my old emails and the AtariMax forums. I couldn't find much other than to make certain to use one of the USB ports on the back of your computer, the ones coming directly from the motherboard, not one of the ones from the hub on the front of your PC. Also, make certain to get rid of anything non-AtariMax related as far as drivers. Beyond that, I really don't have anything. Sorry, I thought I'd have more to offer.

 

Edited by bfollowell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, bfollowell said:

I looked back through my old emails and the AtariMax forums. I couldn't find much other than to make certain to use one of the USB ports on the back of your computer, the ones coming directly from the motherboard, not one of the ones from the hub on the front of your PC. Also, make certain to get rid of anything non-AtariMax related as far as drivers. Beyond that, I really don't have anything. Sorry, I thought I'd have more to offer.

 

@bfollowell

Many thanks for checking. I'd tried a USB port on my laptop as opposed to the hub at some stage when I was troubleshooting using RespecQt before I realised that this was an AtariMax SIO2PC USB device.  I think I tried recently again in a direct laptop USB port. All are USB 3 ports but would be backwards compatible with USB 1.1 and 2 I'd imagine. (Incidentally I can't imagine USB 3 would cause an issue?)

 

My laptop is a high end VR gaming laptop running Windows 10. (Really odd to have a high end 21st C bit of VR kit next to my multiple A8s I've gotta say. My workstation area is very impressive (total mishmash and a total nightmare for anyone other than myself). (Love it!).

 

The only minor grip (and it is minor), is the APE for windows sys is still fairly dated and 32bit. Navigating the directory heirarchy each time using it when you are used to 64bit modern file explorer (Windows 7 upwards) GUIs is kinda cumbersome. Shame Atarimax haven't updated it to modern standards like the platform RespeQt is built on- especially given a paid version exists alongside the trial. (I totally appreciate this is likely the developer's lack of available time and motivation to do so (plus the "if it ain't broke.... don't fix it").

 

Hope you find some free time between family commitments to re-live the Atari glory days? I am in my mid 40s, having returned to the Atari scene after a 20 year break and I am more obsessed than when I was in my late teens/early 20s. (Although I am not writing for disk mags, etc anymore.... ah those were the days).

 

I'll try and remove the FDTI drivers and also ensure I take any USB hubs out of the equation.

 

Thanks again for your help. 😀

 

Edited by Beeblebrox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@bfollowell

Hi. Ok, just a little update. I removed as much of the traces of FDTI drivers from Windows, and tried running the USB connection from a direct laptop USB port. Tried rebooting, etc. Prosystem still doesn't find the com port. 

Ah well.:roll:

 

Anyway, I started to follow your instructions regarding using APE for Windows to set up an black ATR I've made mouting it as drive 3. I mounted a sector copier ATR in drive 2, and then went to assign drive 1 to my real 1050 drive and that is where I am not following things as I can't seem to see where I tell APE that the real 1050 is assigned to drive 1. Presumably if I boot as follows nothing will happen as it is looking for drive 1 and nothing is assigned? The 1050 drive itself is plugged into the Atari's SIO and is physically set as drive 1. But not in APE. If I pop the sector copier into the drive 1 slot on APE then that won't work either.

 

image.thumb.png.c46c0743d1bc900f83e3bc2bbe3c57b5.png

 

 

I've tried going to the ATARImax APE for Windows documentation and it is just pops up an under construction page. Other documentation refers to the old MS-DOS version of APE.

 

I'll keep looking on Atarimax pages and it's forum as well as AA but it isn't too clear to me.

 

EDIT:  Unless I've misunderstood completely and I need to have a sector copier on a "real" disk already, load it from said real disk in the 1050 whilst attached to APE for windows with the blank ATR assigned in APE in another number slot?  If so it's catch22 as I don't have a sector copier on a real disk readily to hand, and can't create one. Sorry for the questions... I am usually pretty good at eventually working this in my own time - it's just confused me this time around heh heh :D

Edited by Beeblebrox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...