sd32 Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 What about our Jaggy? I wish this coder would give it a shot too ... even if only a single level Dont know much about this 3DO work in progress, but it’s always good to see such projects 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Biff Burgertime Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 I'm more interested in that game listed below Tomb Raider in the video. How about porting Penthouse Interactive Virtual Photo Shoot Vol. 1 to the Jag? 6 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 This is already being discussed here: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 (edited) On 10/27/2021 at 4:02 AM, sd32 said: What about our Jaggy? I wish this coder would give it a shot too ... even if only a single level Dont know much about this 3DO work in progress, but it’s always good to see such projects If this is running in software mode, something similar might be possible on Jaguar. However, you see it crawls at single digit FPS in complex scenes with NPCs. Question is: could optimizations improve it to a playable state? New video: Perfomance struggling, notably at 1:18, you won't even notice that the video freezes! Edited October 30, 2021 by agradeneu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gummy Bear Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 The Jag can't run tomb raider. Not in any form, not ever. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swapd0 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Funny that it has the same glitches as the psx version, sometimes the polygons doesn't match together. A jaguar version could look great in CrY mode and with sub pixel blitter coordinates, but the lack of cache and the fact that the bliter can't expand 4 or 8 bit textures to 16bits bitmap will kill the performance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Gummy Bear said: The Jag can't run tomb raider. Not in any form, not ever. So they said about the 3DO.:-) Of course, the Jaguar can run TR, question is at which FPS. The coder of the 3DO alpha claims its running without any optimization, e.g. without using hardware textures. Not sure if that is true, but it might be a good indication how it would run on the Jaguar? Edited November 1, 2021 by agradeneu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, swapd0 said: Funny that it has the same glitches as the psx version, sometimes the polygons doesn't match together. A jaguar version could look great in CrY mode and with sub pixel blitter coordinates, but the lack of cache and the fact that the bliter can't expand 4 or 8 bit textures to 16bits bitmap will kill the performance. You mean 16 bit textures? None console of that generation could handle that IMO. Its usually 4 bit or 8 bit. Edited November 1, 2021 by agradeneu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swapd0 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Yes, the psx can do it (T-Rex demo has 16bits textures) but usually the games used 4 bits or 8 bits textures to save memory, also they give more flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, swapd0 said: Yes, the psx can do it (T-Rex demo has 16bits textures) but usually the games used 4 bits or 8 bits textures to save memory, also they give more flexibility. So, if the Jaguar is slower than the PS1, why you are suggesting 16 bit textures in the first place? Strange way of demanding more from a weaker hardware. The texture cache of the PS is 2K, how you can fit 16 bit textures for a whole game in there? Edited November 1, 2021 by agradeneu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 This has been talked about so much it's become a running joke. After seeing the video of Tomb Raider running on the 3DO, i'm pretty convinced it COULD run on the Jaguar, if you threw enough time, money and talent at it. But who's going to do that now in 2021? No one. So it's a moot point may as well let it be and enjoy the game on Saturn, PS1, or one of the zillion other platforms it was ported to (PC, PS3, Etc. Etc.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swapd0 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 6 hours ago, agradeneu said: So, if the Jaguar is slower than the PS1, why you are suggesting 16 bit textures in the first place? Strange way of demanding more from a weaker hardware. The texture cache of the PS is 2K, how you can fit 16 bit textures for a whole game in there? I mean that if you use 16bits textures you could do texture mapping with Gouraud shading, it will look better than the PSX version, without any color banding, but of course it will run very slow. A cache stores the most recent data, you don't need to "load" the texture into the cache and draw from there, although I think that the N64 the texture must be loaded into the cache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rick Dangerous said: This has been talked about so much it's become a running joke. After seeing the video of Tomb Raider running on the 3DO, i'm pretty convinced it COULD run on the Jaguar, if you threw enough time, money and talent at it. But who's going to do that now in 2021? No one. So it's a moot point may as well let it be and enjoy the game on Saturn, PS1, or one of the zillion other platforms it was ported to (PC, PS3, Etc. Etc.) Nobody threw money at the 3DO coder of TR. He ported it in 2 weeks. So lack of money and time are "running joke" excuses. To be more blunt, most excuses are BS. It just takes talent.....and enough interest for a system/game. Someone is porting Another World to Game Boy Color, all kinds of crazy projects happening, it's just pure display of talent and nothing else you need. I am following the Jaguar community for 20 years but the joke I am mostly tired of are the lame excuses why this and that was not possible unless someone is throwing huge amounts of money at you, of course, before doing anything ;) Either you are living the dream or GTFO and stop pretending. Edited November 1, 2021 by agradeneu 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Well a tech demo of walking around the mansion and a full playable game are two totally different things. That's great news on the GBA port of Another World. Would love to see the full game on Lynx some day, big fan and beaten it on most systems it's ported to. (The 3DO version is one of the most unique and difficult versions i've played.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 2 hours ago, agradeneu said: Nobody threw money at the 3DO coder of TR. He ported it in 2 weeks. So lack of money and time are "running joke" excuses. To be more blunt, most excuses are BS. It just takes talent.....and enough interest for a system/game. Someone is porting Another World to Game Boy Color, all kinds of crazy projects happening, it's just pure display of talent and nothing else you need. Well they do have a much better tool chain on the 3do to get more out of the system faster. And to top it all off that guy is an amazing coder. That's a one two punch that is hard to come by. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sd32 Posted November 1, 2021 Author Share Posted November 1, 2021 23 minutes ago, JagChris said: Well they do have a much better tool chain on the 3do to get more out of the system faster. And to top it all off that guy is an amazing coder. That's a one two punch that is hard to come by. I have read that while 3DO has an “easy” to use tool chain, it doesn’t really let you get the most of the system since you can’t code to the “metal” so to speak I wonder if this Tomb Raider coder is using the regular 3DO tool chain Sorry if I didn’t use the correct terms ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilinger Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Does he started coding from scratch? or used the reengineered code available in Github and integrated his own renderer? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Plot twist: it's just a beta running from unseen PSX hardware under the desk... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, JagChris said: Well they do have a much better tool chain on the 3do to get more out of the system faster. And to top it all off that guy is an amazing coder. That's a one two punch that is hard to come by. Np, I was just commenting on the "money thing" being the main motivation. This could not be farer from the truth. Edited November 1, 2021 by agradeneu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetastrike Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 1 hour ago, sd32 said: I have read that while 3DO has an “easy” to use tool chain, it doesn’t really let you get the most of the system since you can’t code to the “metal” so to speak I wonder if this Tomb Raider coder is using the regular 3DO tool chain Sorry if I didn’t use the correct terms ? You have to go through the OS on the 3DO, bare metal programming to the hardware isn't possible, bitd or now. It functions much like a modern day OS, complete with multi-tasking and lots of API calls. It was meant to be easy for devs and allow migration to newer generations of hardware. 3DO was never meant to be tied to a specific hardware spec, it was really the OS software that was the heart of the whole outfit. Had the M2 console seen the light of day, the intent was to have M1 software be compatible through a translation layer, not through direct HW backwards compatibility. The devs on the 3DO discord are putting together a brand new SDK that will hopefully open the doors to more projects like this. This OpenLara port alone is garnering a lot of attention and may get more smart people interested in tinkering with the 3DO. That's the goal. 4 hours ago, agradeneu said: Nobody threw money at the 3DO coder of TR. He ported it in 2 weeks. So lack of money and time are "running joke" excuses. To be more blunt, most excuses are BS. It just takes talent.....and enough interest for a system/game. Someone is porting Another World to Game Boy Color, all kinds of crazy projects happening, it's just pure display of talent and nothing else you need. I am following the Jaguar community for 20 years but the joke I am mostly tired of are the lame excuses why this and that was not possible unless someone is throwing huge amounts of money at you, of course, before doing anything Either you are living the dream or GTFO and stop pretending. If it bothers you so much that the 3DO community has a legit homebrew game to look forward to, why don't you slide into XProger's DMs and extoll the virtues of the Jaguar? Or port it yourself, OpenLara is open source. As someone who's played this on my actual 3DO console, I can't wait to see the finished product. I can't stress enough that what we have so far is the product of less than two weeks of work. It is by no means close to done. The dev himself says there is a ton of optimization ahead and a stable, playable framerate is 100% within the realm of possibility. I think a lot of people are looking at this alpha release and thinking "Oh, it's rendering polygons, it must be 99% done" which is a mistake. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, zetastrike said: You have to go through the OS on the 3DO, bare metal programming to the hardware isn't possible, bitd or now. It functions much like a modern day OS, complete with multi-tasking and lots of API calls. It was meant to be easy for devs and allow migration to newer generations of hardware. 3DO was never meant to be tied to a specific hardware spec, it was really the OS software that was the heart of the whole outfit. Had the M2 console seen the light of day, the intent was to have M1 software be compatible through a translation layer, not through direct HW backwards compatibility. The devs on the 3DO discord are putting together a brand new SDK that will hopefully open the doors to more projects like this. This OpenLara port alone is garnering a lot of attention and may get more smart people interested in tinkering with the 3DO. That's the goal. If it bothers you so much that the 3DO community has a legit homebrew game to look forward to, why don't you slide into XProger's DMs and extoll the virtues of the Jaguar? Or port it yourself, OpenLara is open source. As someone who's played this on my actual 3DO console, I can't wait to see the finished product. I can't stress enough that what we have so far is the product of less than two weeks of work. It is by no means close to done. The dev himself says there is a ton of optimization ahead and a stable, playable framerate is 100% within the realm of possibility. I think a lot of people are looking at this alpha release and thinking "Oh, it's rendering polygons, it must be 99% done" which is a mistake. Stick to your sig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) Amazing from a technical point of view, but some games are really better to be remembered, than seen again. A striking example of this is the blocky, low res textures of early 3D games. In my opinion, pseudo 3D games like Doom has aged with more dignity. From a purely visual point of view, I am much more impressed with for example Tube2020, or Abyss with it's stylish flat shaded polygons. Edited November 1, 2021 by phoboz 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Clint Thompson said: Plot twist: it's just a beta running from unseen PSX hardware under the desk... Defect PSX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetastrike Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, agradeneu said: Defect PSX Who would have though that a nice gesture to the 3DO community would make some people so irritated? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Just now, zetastrike said: Who would have though that a nice gesture to the 3DO community would make some people so irritated? You are still not getting the joke do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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