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Tomb Raider being ported to 3DO

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What about our Jaggy? I wish this coder would give it a shot too ... even if only a single level 

 

Dont know much about this 3DO work in progress, but it’s always good to see such projects

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On 10/27/2021 at 4:02 AM, sd32 said:


 

What about our Jaggy? I wish this coder would give it a shot too ... even if only a single level 

 

Dont know much about this 3DO work in progress, but it’s always good to see such projects

If this is running in software mode, something similar might be possible on Jaguar. 

However, you see it crawls at single digit FPS in complex scenes with NPCs. 

Question is: could optimizations improve it to a playable state?

 

New video: 

Perfomance struggling, notably at 1:18, you won't even notice that the video freezes!

 

 

Edited by agradeneu
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Funny that it has the same glitches as the psx version, sometimes the polygons doesn't match together.

 

A jaguar version could look great in CrY mode and with sub pixel blitter coordinates, but the lack of cache and the fact that the bliter can't expand 4 or 8 bit textures to 16bits bitmap will kill the performance.

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5 hours ago, Gummy Bear said:

The Jag can't run tomb raider. 

Not in any form, not ever. 

So they said about the 3DO.:-)

Of course, the Jaguar can run TR, question is at which FPS.

The coder of the 3DO alpha claims its running without any optimization, e.g. without using hardware textures. Not sure if that is true, but it might be a good indication how it would run on the Jaguar?

 

Edited by agradeneu
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4 hours ago, swapd0 said:

Funny that it has the same glitches as the psx version, sometimes the polygons doesn't match together.

 

A jaguar version could look great in CrY mode and with sub pixel blitter coordinates, but the lack of cache and the fact that the bliter can't expand 4 or 8 bit textures to 16bits bitmap will kill the performance.

You mean 16 bit textures? None console of that generation could handle that IMO. Its usually 4 bit or 8 bit.

Edited by agradeneu
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Yes, the psx can do it (T-Rex demo has 16bits textures) but usually the games used 4 bits or 8 bits textures to save memory, also they give more flexibility.

 

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4 minutes ago, swapd0 said:

Yes, the psx can do it (T-Rex demo has 16bits textures) but usually the games used 4 bits or 8 bits textures to save memory, also they give more flexibility.

 

So, if the Jaguar is slower than the PS1, why you are suggesting 16 bit textures in the first place? Strange way of demanding more from a weaker hardware.

 

The texture cache of the PS is 2K, how you can fit 16 bit textures for a whole game in there?

 

Edited by agradeneu

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This has been talked about so much it's become a running joke.

 

After seeing the video of Tomb Raider running on the 3DO, i'm pretty convinced it COULD run on the Jaguar, if you threw enough time, money and talent at it.  But who's going to do that now in 2021?  No one.  So it's a moot point may as well let it be and enjoy the game on Saturn, PS1, or one of the zillion other platforms it was ported to (PC, PS3, Etc. Etc.) 

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6 hours ago, agradeneu said:

So, if the Jaguar is slower than the PS1, why you are suggesting 16 bit textures in the first place? Strange way of demanding more from a weaker hardware.

 

The texture cache of the PS is 2K, how you can fit 16 bit textures for a whole game in there?

 

I mean that if you use 16bits textures you could do texture mapping with Gouraud shading, it will look better than the PSX version, without any color banding, but of course it will run very slow.

 

A cache stores the most recent data, you don't need to "load" the texture into the cache and draw from there, although I think that the N64 the texture must be loaded into the cache.

 

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1 hour ago, Rick Dangerous said:

This has been talked about so much it's become a running joke.

 

After seeing the video of Tomb Raider running on the 3DO, i'm pretty convinced it COULD run on the Jaguar, if you threw enough time, money and talent at it.  But who's going to do that now in 2021?  No one.  So it's a moot point may as well let it be and enjoy the game on Saturn, PS1, or one of the zillion other platforms it was ported to (PC, PS3, Etc. Etc.) 

Nobody threw money at the 3DO coder of TR. He ported it in 2 weeks. So lack of money and time are "running joke" excuses. To be more blunt, most excuses are BS.

It just takes talent.....and enough interest for a system/game. 

Someone is porting Another World to Game Boy Color, all kinds of crazy projects happening, it's just pure display of talent and nothing else you need. 

 

I am following the Jaguar community for 20 years but the joke I am mostly tired of are the lame excuses why this and that was not possible unless someone is throwing huge amounts of money at you, of course, before doing anything ;) 

Either you are living the dream or GTFO and stop pretending.

Edited by agradeneu
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Well a tech demo of walking around the mansion and a full playable game are two totally different things. 

 

That's great news on the GBA port of Another World.  Would love to see the full game on Lynx some day, big fan and beaten it on most systems it's ported to.  (The 3DO version is one of the most unique and difficult versions i've played.) 

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2 hours ago, agradeneu said:

Nobody threw money at the 3DO coder of TR. He ported it in 2 weeks. So lack of money and time are "running joke" excuses. To be more blunt, most excuses are BS.

It just takes talent.....and enough interest for a system/game. 

Someone is porting Another World to Game Boy Color, all kinds of crazy projects happening, it's just pure display of talent and nothing else you need. 

 

Well they do have a much better tool chain on the 3do to get more out of the system faster. 

 

And to top it all off that guy is an amazing coder. That's a one two punch that is hard to come by. 

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23 minutes ago, JagChris said:

 

Well they do have a much better tool chain on the 3do to get more out of the system faster. 

 

And to top it all off that guy is an amazing coder. That's a one two punch that is hard to come by. 

I have read that while 3DO has an “easy” to use tool chain, it doesn’t really let you get the most of the system since you can’t code to the “metal” so to speak

 

I wonder if this Tomb Raider coder is using the regular 3DO tool chain 

 

Sorry if I didn’t use the correct terms 🤪 

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Does he started coding from scratch? or used the reengineered code available in Github and integrated his own renderer?

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1 hour ago, JagChris said:

 

Well they do have a much better tool chain on the 3do to get more out of the system faster. 

 

And to top it all off that guy is an amazing coder. That's a one two punch that is hard to come by. 

Np, I was just commenting on the "money thing" being the main motivation. This could not be farer from the truth. 

Edited by agradeneu

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1 hour ago, sd32 said:

I have read that while 3DO has an “easy” to use tool chain, it doesn’t really let you get the most of the system since you can’t code to the “metal” so to speak

 

I wonder if this Tomb Raider coder is using the regular 3DO tool chain 

 

Sorry if I didn’t use the correct terms 🤪 

You have to go through the OS on the 3DO, bare metal programming to the hardware isn't possible, bitd or now.  It functions much like a modern day OS, complete with multi-tasking and lots of API calls.  It was meant to be easy for devs and allow migration to newer generations of hardware.  3DO was never meant to be tied to a specific hardware spec, it was really the OS software that was the heart of the whole outfit.  Had the M2 console seen the light of day, the intent was to have M1 software be compatible through a translation layer, not through direct HW backwards compatibility.

 

The devs on the 3DO discord are putting together a brand new SDK that will hopefully open the doors to more projects like this.  This OpenLara port alone is garnering a lot of attention and may get more smart people interested in tinkering with the 3DO.  That's the goal.

4 hours ago, agradeneu said:

Nobody threw money at the 3DO coder of TR. He ported it in 2 weeks. So lack of money and time are "running joke" excuses. To be more blunt, most excuses are BS.

It just takes talent.....and enough interest for a system/game. 

Someone is porting Another World to Game Boy Color, all kinds of crazy projects happening, it's just pure display of talent and nothing else you need. 

 

I am following the Jaguar community for 20 years but the joke I am mostly tired of are the lame excuses why this and that was not possible unless someone is throwing huge amounts of money at you, of course, before doing anything ;)

Either you are living the dream or GTFO and stop pretending.

If it bothers you so much that the 3DO community has a legit homebrew game to look forward to, why don't you slide into XProger's DMs and extoll the virtues of the Jaguar?  Or port it yourself, OpenLara is open source.

 

As someone who's played this on my actual 3DO console, I can't wait to see the finished product.  I can't stress enough that what we have so far is the product of less than two weeks of work.  It is by no means close to done.  The dev himself says there is a ton of optimization ahead and a stable, playable framerate is 100% within the realm of possibility.  I think a lot of people are looking at this alpha release and thinking "Oh, it's rendering polygons, it must be 99% done" which is a mistake.

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10 minutes ago, zetastrike said:

You have to go through the OS on the 3DO, bare metal programming to the hardware isn't possible, bitd or now.  It functions much like a modern day OS, complete with multi-tasking and lots of API calls.  It was meant to be easy for devs and allow migration to newer generations of hardware.  3DO was never meant to be tied to a specific hardware spec, it was really the OS software that was the heart of the whole outfit.  Had the M2 console seen the light of day, the intent was to have M1 software be compatible through a translation layer, not through direct HW backwards compatibility.

 

The devs on the 3DO discord are putting together a brand new SDK that will hopefully open the doors to more projects like this.  This OpenLara port alone is garnering a lot of attention and may get more smart people interested in tinkering with the 3DO.  That's the goal.

If it bothers you so much that the 3DO community has a legit homebrew game to look forward to, why don't you slide into XProger's DMs and extoll the virtues of the Jaguar?  Or port it yourself, OpenLara is open source.

 

As someone who's played this on my actual 3DO console, I can't wait to see the finished product.  I can't stress enough that what we have so far is the product of less than two weeks of work.  It is by no means close to done.  The dev himself says there is a ton of optimization ahead and a stable, playable framerate is 100% within the realm of possibility.  I think a lot of people are looking at this alpha release and thinking "Oh, it's rendering polygons, it must be 99% done" which is a mistake.

Stick to your sig. ;-)

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Amazing from a technical point of view, but some games are really better to be remembered, than seen again.

 

A striking example of this is the blocky, low res textures of early 3D games. In my opinion, pseudo 3D games like Doom has aged with more dignity. 

 

From a purely visual point of view, I am much more impressed with for example Tube2020, or Abyss with it's stylish flat shaded polygons.

Edited by phoboz
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9 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

Defect PSX ;)

Who would have though that a nice gesture to the 3DO community would make some people so irritated?  

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Just now, zetastrike said:

Who would have though that a nice gesture to the 3DO community would make some people so irritated?  

You are still not getting the joke do you? :-D

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