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I have this code in front of my eyes, but don't expect me to read threads back and forth from there.

 

Please add it to the documentation at last.

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12 minutes ago, zbyti said:

but nothing more of what I have tried, compiler still talking about static reference

The array is still static, the reference is what you modify.

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3 hours ago, Kaj de Vos said:

They're series!, you can use all the series! methods. Though Ilmenit only wants to use pick and poke...

what did I not understand in the word "all"?

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and only you know what they are and what they are called :P 

 

can you list them all here or should I look for the lost knowledge in the second thread too?

Edited by zbyti

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you spent so much time describing your goals and so on, and you still haven't found the time to write a simple doc, although practically everyone asked you to do so.

 

why did you release it and encourage us to use it when you don't have time to do the basic stuff?

 

i little pissed off :P 

Edited by zbyti

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I will get to the documentation after the bug fixing.

 

There are a few simple rules that help. The unary methods that get a property or element from a single parameter are suffixed with -of, to make use of of in English that signals a unary method. Most of the methods that position a reference to a series are prefixed with at-, to make it clear that they work on the series reference and not the elements of the series.

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3 minutes ago, zbyti said:

you spent so much time describing your goals and so on, and you still haven't found the time to write a simple doc, although practically everyone asked you to do so.

 

why did you release it and encourage us to use it when you don't have time to do the basic stuff?

 

i little pissed off :P 

You people here kept asking questions and attacking my answers, so the website became high priority. I could do that faster than finishing the language. Of course, that does mean that the documentation is further delayed.

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4 minutes ago, Kaj de Vos said:

You people here kept asking questions and attacking my answers, so the website became high priority. I could do that faster than finishing the language. Of course, that does mean that the documentation is further delayed.

Ability to prioritize is important programmer characteristics. If you judged that you are must responding to the taunts instead write proper documentation you must grow up.

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There was no need for documentation, because people were refusing to try the language. Instead, they wanted to argue, so the obvious priority was to expand the narrative on the website. It's great that you're trying it, but if I had written documentation instead of fixing bugs, you would have kept complaining about the bugs.

 

Anyway, you paid nothing for Meta, so you are still getting your money's worth.

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11 minutes ago, Kaj de Vos said:

Anyway, you paid nothing for Meta, so you are still getting your money's worth.

you didn't pay for my tests :P we are even :D 

 

Quote

Release early, release often, to gather and incorporate feedback.

 

Introduce the project to a suitable grass-roots audience, to start a feedback process.

 

Incrementally improve the language, build service and documentation from the feedback of their use.

 

The Atari community is providing excellent feedback and development help, including for modern cross-platform concerns.

https://language.metaproject.frl

 

use what I wrote already because I'm done and there will be no more.

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Right, you either gather feedback or you don't. There's no point in getting feedback about the project goals and background and not working it into the website. That task has progressed now, so now I switch between the other tasks.

 

I have gone out of my way to support you and others here. I'm sorry you don't appreciate it.

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13 hours ago, Kaj de Vos said:

There was no need for documentation, because people were refusing to try the language. Instead, they wanted to argue, so the obvious priority was to expand the narrative on the website. It's great that you're trying it, but if I had written documentation instead of fixing bugs, you would have kept complaining about the bugs.

Kaj, maybe you didn't notice but we really tried to write something in the language. Considering total lack of any documentation, ZERO information what from the promises on the website is actually implemented or only a dream, misleading pointing to Rebol documentation, constant bugs preventing compilation even of simple codes then yes, we focused on the discussion about the language itself, because there was nothing else to do. You announced loudly "release" of the language way too early: only you have in your head information how the language behaves, what are the basic conventions for the functions (at-, -of), what is implemented, what is still on TODO list and what is known to be buggy. You released the programming language, encouraging community to spend time with it, but you are preventing the use. Therefore yes, we are somewhere between disappointed and angry. Programming language is for programmers. Let us use it! For me it would be totally enough to have:

1. Simple list of all the actually IMPLEMENTED functions and  their parameters like in https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~matuszek/Concise Guides/Concise Rebol.html - this document was enough for me to start with Rebol.

2. To prevent our anger from constantly trying something that is not working:

  • List of what is NOT implemented but planned
  • Known issues so we do not try & report what you already know

3. Some code examples using implemented concepts and functions (because how else we could know that to use addresses you need to combine "unsafe!!! constant reference volatile byte!")

Edited by ilmenit
edit: changed wrongly used "arrays" to "addresses"
  • Like 3

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The early feedback has been very useful, for which I thank you all, but I feel that it has ran its course. I will repeat it one more time, and then I will stop responding to negative posts: Meta is not finished, I released it as a sneak preview, programming languages take years to a first balanced version and decades to mature, I'm doing my utmost best to inform and support you and perform the needed work in the best order, but under the current laws of physics, time can only be spent once.

 

From now on, I will only respond to constructive posts.

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12 hours ago, Kaj de Vos said:

There was no need for documentation, because people were refusing to try the language. Instead, they wanted to argue,

Chicken/Egg syndrome:- how can you expect people to try if they don't have clue how to ?

 

I would love to give it a go, but the examples and current web site offer little to go on, even if you don't 

have time to do extensive documentation, I refer back to one of my posts, Comments in the code helps a load.

 

Edit: and this is a constructive post :)

 

Edited by TGB1718
  • Like 1

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On 11/18/2021 at 2:16 PM, Kaj de Vos said:

Nowhere do I claim "production ready". I say "Is it useful for anything yet?". Meta runs its own project, it's very useful.

 

I released it to let interested early birds try it, after more than a year of lively discussion. If you would rather have nothing than something, just pretend it isn't released yet. However, you're just one semicolon away from getting your Sieve to run.

 

The feedback is very valuable and essential. I'm constantly updating the website with information from testers.

rscb1-1

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On 12/15/2021 at 1:46 PM, TGB1718 said:

Chicken/Egg syndrome:- how can you expect people to try if they don't have clue how to ?

 

I would love to give it a go, but the examples and current web site offer little to go on, even if you don't 

have time to do extensive documentation, I refer back to one of my posts, Comments in the code helps a load.

 

Edit: and this is a constructive post :)

 

I added extra comments to the Rainbow examples:

https://language.metaproject.frl/#examples

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