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Final Assault - new game by GMG

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8 hours ago, Mr Robot said:

Anyone gonna criticise this for having a non-quittable intro sequence?... Nope didn't think so!

 

It's on my tnfs server in the 2021 folder for any fujinet owners who fancy trying it out. 

 

Does the condescending discussion from another thread really need to be brought into this thread? Honestly, it's just not necessary and definitely isn't going to promote friendly, positive and open discussion. Relax.

 

If you wouldn't say what you're thinking to the person's face in real life for fear of repercussion, then it's probably best not to say what you're thinking in a public forum where your comments are going to exist for a very long time - Generally speaking, especially when you're trying to promote a product. :)

 

This is a very interesting game, looks cool. I've downloaded it and plan on giving it a shot at a time when my back isn't killing me. 👍

Edited by Mazzspeed
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Is the game using POKEY interrupts somehow?

Here is a video with some background  sound using hardware intervalls by POKEY.

One change per second , 16 different values.  15kHz clocking.

 

Just for some impression ;)

 

 

 

... the additional sound is played on RMT, btw. 

Edited by emkay
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A big thank you to Everyone involved in the project, what a surprise!🙂

It's all-around extremely polished game: the intro, music, sounds, controls, weapons, map, status bar... Real treasure for our beloved 8-bit Atari 🤩

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2 hours ago, Mazzspeed said:

Does the condescending discussion from another thread really need to be brought into this thread? Honestly, it's just not necessary and definitely isn't going to promote friendly, positive and open discussion. Relax.

Humour isn't one of your strengths is it. 

 

Does the antagonistic attitude and unwelcome vitriol really need to? 

 

2 hours ago, Mazzspeed said:

If you wouldn't say what you're thinking to the person's face in real life for fear of repercussion, then it's probably best not to say what you're thinking in a public forum where your comments are going to exist for a very long time - Generally speaking, especially when you're trying to promote a product. :)

I never say anything online that I wouldnt say to someones face, or be willing to shout in a public space. Anyone who does, hasn't worked out how to 'online' yet. 

 

Product? 

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this is how I see the world when I take my glasses off.


I think this is the first 3D shooter on Atari? Great stuff.

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Looking at these graphics on the old hardware is amazing — back in the day I would have been mesmerized by these visuals for hours. Well done, astounding work!

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Congratulations on the finished and very polished game! It's a great achievement, the first "modern" first person shooter on A8, and it fits into 64KB!. Great job, with a lot of technical difficulties solved. 

I have a question about the 3D projection of the walls, because there seems to be something wrong with it. It's especially visible during rotation, during which the walls do not change the angles and the rotation looks like a scrolling, not a 3D projection. Take a look at the following comparison of rotation in Final Assault and the Project M. I tried to find a similar wall (2x1) observed from similar spot. Not sure what's the cause of it - too parallel rays? issue with fish eye correction? too big/small distance from observer to projection plane?

I think why it's one of the reasons why it's hard to mind-map the actual 3D space in the game and there is a need to switch to 2D map often.

final.gif.8caed9a49f80fbc7aeea479bb0fd3b75.gifProjectM.gif.07ef313b8b8fe8141f9e85f998b4a318.gif

right1.png.030b7a39672e0e810c9aa9fda0b13bc0.pngleft1.png.32539ae9f2bf73e1b1c088978ba7e82a.png

right2.png.7ba55d5763a1cd787ddb89d3cfe39a2c.pngleft2.png.2e68ef8aefa98166438057d689b8f2de.png

EDIT: Ok, I think I know the reason for it. Take a look at the following picture with two different view cones (blue and red) and a green wall. In case of blue cone of view the wall is parallel to the view, however in case of red it's not parallel. It seems that projection used in this game is simplified from the standard raycasting algorithm (not sure if intentionally or not) and the distance of the rays to the wall do not depend on the position of the ray on the screen, but is reusing the angles from rotation. The distance to the wall should have been calculated a bit differently for proper projection.

fov.thumb.png.fa702ec10a1160a801d4fe0bbe0fc205.png

Edited by ilmenit
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16 hours ago, Mr Robot said:

Anyone gonna criticise this for having a non-quittable intro sequence?... Nope didn't think so!

Hold Start+Select+Option !!! these need to be pressed during first depacking, before 'GMG production' screen starts to appear !!!

7 hours ago, emkay said:

Is the game using POKEY interrupts somehow?

No. Sound effects are done through normal 4 channels and the clicking of proximity detector is done through writes into CONSOL / $D01F

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2 hours ago, ilmenit said:

I have a question about the 3D projection of the walls, because there seems to be something wrong with it. It's especially visible during rotation, during which the walls do not change the angles and the rotation looks like a scrolling, not a 3D projection.

I'd guess there are 2 main reasons for things going a bit wonky. I sacrificed precision for speed and threw out fish eye correction routine with it's 5KB large lookup table when Ram got extra tight.

Another reason might be that there's relatively low number of vertical sizes for wall slices so even when the slice goes farther or closer just a little bit, it's not really visible.

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2 minutes ago, pseudografx said:

So I guess this could be sorted out in a potential 130XE extended version? ;-)

Hopefully.

I have couple of ideas on paper that could speed things up and make them look a bit nicer too.

But it will take time and there are other works in the pipeline too so don't hold your breath.

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43 minutes ago, globe said:

Hopefully.

I have couple of ideas on paper that could speed things up and make them look a bit nicer too.

But it will take time and there are other works in the pipeline too so don't hold your breath.

Just me, but I don't think you should worry about the 64k limit. You've done this - it's amazing. Grab another 64k and go nuts for V2.0. The user base nowadays is pretty upgraded, and there's always altirra.

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4 hours ago, ilmenit said:

Congratulations on the finished and very polished game! It's a great achievement, the first "modern" first person shooter on A8, and it fits into 64KB!. Great job, with a lot of technical difficulties solved. 

I have a question about the 3D projection of the walls, because there seems to be something wrong with it. It's especially visible during rotation, during which the walls do not change the angles and the rotation looks like a scrolling, not a 3D projection. Take a look at the following comparison of rotation in Final Assault and the Project M. I tried to find a similar wall (2x1) observed from similar spot. Not sure what's the cause of it - too parallel rays? issue with fish eye correction? too big/small distance from observer to projection plane?

I think why it's one of the reasons why it's hard to mind-map the actual 3D space in the game and there is a need to switch to 2D map often.

final.gif.8caed9a49f80fbc7aeea479bb0fd3b75.gifProjectM.gif.07ef313b8b8fe8141f9e85f998b4a318.gif

 

 

EDIT: Ok, I think I know the reason for it. Take a look at the following picture with two different view cones (blue and red) and a green wall. In case of blue cone of view the wall is parallel to the view, however in case of red it's not parallel. It seems that projection used in this game is simplified from the standard raycasting algorithm (not sure if intentionally or not) and the distance of the rays to the wall do not depend on the position of the ray on the screen, but is reusing the angles from rotation. The distance to the wall should have been calculated a bit differently for proper projection.

 

 

The projection in Project-M is not real.  Why should the angle change, if you just turn around ?

The angle in Final Assault changes, if you move. So everything fine in the game. 

 

 

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Um, neither projection is 'real'. The FA one does not respect some points of proper perspective handling. The FA one is more like moving sideways rather than actually turning. Not a huge deal to me, but it's there.

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6 hours ago, xxl said:

this is how I see the world when I take my glasses off.


I think this is the first 3D shooter on Atari? Great stuff.

Midi Maze? ;-)

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4 hours ago, ilmenit said:

Congratulations on the finished and very polished game! It's a great achievement, the first "modern" first person shooter on A8, and it fits into 64KB!. Great job, with a lot of technical difficulties solved. 

I have a question about the 3D projection of the walls, because there seems to be something wrong with it. It's especially visible during rotation, during which the walls do not change the angles and the rotation looks like a scrolling, not a 3D projection. Take a look at the following comparison of rotation in Final Assault and the Project M. I tried to find a similar wall (2x1) observed from similar spot. Not sure what's the cause of it - too parallel rays? issue with fish eye correction? too big/small distance from observer to projection plane?

I think why it's one of the reasons why it's hard to mind-map the actual 3D space in the game and there is a need to switch to 2D map often.

final.gif.8caed9a49f80fbc7aeea479bb0fd3b75.gifProjectM.gif.07ef313b8b8fe8141f9e85f998b4a318.gif

right1.png.030b7a39672e0e810c9aa9fda0b13bc0.pngleft1.png.32539ae9f2bf73e1b1c088978ba7e82a.png

right2.png.7ba55d5763a1cd787ddb89d3cfe39a2c.pngleft2.png.2e68ef8aefa98166438057d689b8f2de.png

EDIT: Ok, I think I know the reason for it. Take a look at the following picture with two different view cones (blue and red) and a green wall. In case of blue cone of view the wall is parallel to the view, however in case of red it's not parallel. It seems that projection used in this game is simplified from the standard raycasting algorithm (not sure if intentionally or not) and the distance of the rays to the wall do not depend on the position of the ray on the screen, but is reusing the angles from rotation. The distance to the wall should have been calculated a bit differently for proper projection.

fov.thumb.png.fa702ec10a1160a801d4fe0bbe0fc205.png

that's what I thought, too, when playing around with the game. 

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2 hours ago, globe said:

I'd guess there are 2 main reasons for things going a bit wonky. I sacrificed precision for speed and threw out fish eye correction routine with it's 5KB large lookup table when Ram got extra tight.

Another reason might be that there's relatively low number of vertical sizes for wall slices so even when the slice goes farther or closer just a little bit, it's not really visible.

what "unrolled code" are you using? for tmapping the slices? because the tables itself should be not so ram consuming imho.

 

tables used on the SNES Raycaster below. 

1 map is 16x16 grid mirrored 4x so no "signed" check needed when casting.


on the SNES I use depths shading based on Carmack's color mapping algorithm used in Doom.

 

MAZE    = $1d00-$400   ;0400 (L)
TXTHI   = $8000  ;2000 (L) each texture line in 1 page! so texelxy(txt+x+y*256)
TXTLO   = $8000 ;4000   ;2000 (L)
;FREE: 6800-68FF
DISTABL = $6900-$4900   ;0200 (L)
DISTABH = DISTABL+$100
MOVCOS  = $6B00-$4900   ;0060 (L)
MOVSIN  = $6B60-$4900   ;0060 (L)
COS     = $6BC0-$4900   ;0060 (L)
INVCOS  = $6C20-$4900   ;0060 (L) arccos acos
;WHAT: 6C60-6C9F
OFFSH   = $6CA0-$4900   ;0060 (L)
OFFSXL  = $6D00-$4900   ;00C0 (L)
OFFSYL  = OFFSXL+$60
SCALE   = $c000 ;scaletab_copy ;$b000 ;D800   ;0900 (LT)
 
DISPLAY = $c000+16+32*128   ;0C00 (G) vram
shadetabs = $00000
Edited by Heaven/TQA
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50 minutes ago, danwinslow said:

Um, neither projection is 'real'. The FA one does not respect some points of proper perspective handling. The FA one is more like moving sideways rather than actually turning. Not a huge deal to me, but it's there.

The movement is not visible due the low resolution. But, as soon as you move, it is correctly shown. The projection is "real".

Project-M acts like you move sidewards, not just rotating.

 

If you get used to play with walk turn and strafe, you will immediately recognize the well projection. 

 

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1 hour ago, emkay said:

 

The projection in Project-M is not real.  Why should the angle change, if you just turn around ?

The angle in Final Assault changes, if you move. So everything fine in the game. 

 

 

what???? 

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1 minute ago, Heaven/TQA said:

what???? 

EVERYTHING IS FINE IN THE GAME .

I wrote it in big letters, so you might read it better.

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@globe

 

You see the starting discussion?

Seems, you really did it right to show the game at this final state.

Otherwise this missing Genre never would have been filled. 

Particular the 3D stuff ended up in messed up demos, or unplayable slow solutions. Or people have even been nagged till they lost their patience. Ending up getting banned... 

 

You must be some "rensoupp" guy to handle this all , and to finalize a game by all this hammering here in the forums. 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Heaven/TQA said:

what???? 

Just add Emkay to Ignore List and life will be easier ;-) As usually he doesn't understand the issue and has no idea why in case of additionally moving sideways the angle will change and why it should also without moving but only rotating.

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12 minutes ago, ilmenit said:

Just add Emkay to Ignore List and life will be easier ;-) As usually he doesn't understand the issue and has no idea why in case of additionally moving sideways the angle will change and why it should also without moving but only rotating.

Ilmenit has no idea about moving inside a virtual room, neither what reality is. I'm not blocking ignorant people, because I'm not a 2 years old child.  

The vertical change is not that big to add a different pixel of that size. 

As soon as the level is reached, the pixels obviously get changed. 

 

And, as I wrote before: The high framerate is the most valuable part here. 

Edited by emkay

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