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Final Assault - new game by GMG

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Finally got to try this out - it looks amazing on the baby 8" CRT I've got my 576 running on.  I can't imagine seeing.playing something like this BITD.  It's crazy - 39+ years of using this little machine and there's still great new stuff being squeezed out of it!

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17 hours ago, emkay said:

Is there something bad "emkay" is the problem. Is there something great "emkay" is the problem. 

Don't sweat it. You may be surprised how many people out there have this inflicted urge for "piling-up"... even when completely devoid of any meaningful contribution. It is as if they were piled-up when little, and now are running and end-less JMP loop trying to settle a score with a dystopian universe, out there !! 😂

 

17 hours ago, emkay said:

The game is great. Everything is fine, the best thing ever seen on the Atari (sorry rensoup , my preference is 3D gaming :) ) 

One of the key merits of PoP is achieving a very dimensional look (while sticking to 2D rendering, with ample use of textures and micro-contrast), while keeping tightly focused on character-animation (not its environment). No wonder why is also a much larger package, though.

 

Now, I think the merit of this new title, however, is a really well concerted set of tradeoffs to maintain a fluid and interactive 3D perspective, while still fitting everything in 64KB. Even though there are some clear 3D-projection handling issues, the results are "credible" enough, and relatively universal, as it can be run on many stock-config. machines, out there.

 

My only objection, though, is that I need to specifically tune my video-processor to down-sample the image, and throttle back on sharpening, as much as possible, as it would otherwise emphasize its blocky appearance, thus  becoming too obvious to the naked eye (all courtesy of LCDs brutal edge-definition and per-pixel sharpness).

 

 

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7 hours ago, Jacques said:

Just a question: would it be possible to see how the game looks in action without a dithering on the floor or possibly make it off/on by some key, provided RAM allows such feature?

I've read on another forum an idea from @fox that it might increase readability of the graphics in the mode that is used - might be worth checking, if you agree? 🙂

 

EDITED:

I've just read there's no RAM left for anything more 👍

Floor and ceiling gradients are just 2 small, 16 bytes long tables, so as long as it's just editing in different values and trying out how it will look in emulator that's easy to do.

Changed the floor so there isn't dithering and made it much darker because earlier someone already suggested that  bigger contrast would be beneficial.

 

852171417_celingandfloortables.thumb.png.9492621d3adbf50262a967f7e5328efe.png

 

For the adventurous folk that wants to experiment with own changes by editing things in emulator BASECE starts at $90F0 and BASEFL at $91E8

 

!!! Warning, the included XEX won't work on normal HW, it's just the game without intro, without packing and other necessities so try it out in ALTIRRA or other emu !!!

 

6 hours ago, Irgendwer said:

* you could free some bytes in the font by e.g. using only uppercase letters

* VRAM, texture definition space and calculation time could be relaxed by mirroring the screen.

  (It would even underline that if one 8-bit machine can accomplish such a game, it's the A8 thanks to the flexible video processing... - Edit: Of course it could also be a way to double the vertical resolution by preserving current memory footprint.)

Thanks for the tips. To be honest the UPPERCASE part didn't really cross my mind, so if worst thing happens and I'll need 208bytes, I'll sacrifice the little ones for greater good.

 

As for the horizontal mirroring, I get the part about half the vram, half the texture space needed (not entirely aboard with texture being mirrored but 1 page per texture instead of 2 is surely enticing)

but I don't get the 'calculation time' unless you mean time spent drawing into only half the vram.

FA FLOOR TEST - !!! WON'T RUN ON NORMAL HW ONLY IN EMULATOR !!!.xex

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Nice production/presentation. Thanks for dropping this on our doorstep Monday.

 

Lighting effects and atmosphere are cool. A lot of game/features packed into 64K too; a commendable accomplishment.

 

[Edit]

A couple of other good things to mention. Good viewport size; nice job on nearly full screen. Good array of weapons; and I like the compass implementation too.

 

I've played a few FPS in my day; so a few things come to mind as suggestions for future work.

[Some may already be suggested, as I'm hard pressed to read through this rapidly growing thread, ATM.]

 

I'm guessing it's already figured into the difficulty of the game, but this is just a general feature of importance. Turning speed was always a problem for FPS before mouse movement was introduced (even in games with high frame rates). I'm not suggesting adding a mouse, but possibly keys for fast/coarse turning. This is important when something is shooting you in back of the head, and you end up getting nailed 5 times (or end up dying) before you can face your enemy. Basically, at this point, things just call for more stealth and carefulness to move about safely; so I take it as part of the gameplay. Realistically, a person can turn around in an instant -- especially when danger is involved.

 

Custom key configurations/bindings. Everybody has their preference; and if the keys aren't in the right spots for a player, it can make navigation/gameplay more challenging (or awkward). Not a huge deal; people can adapt; but it would certainly be welcome.

 

It would be nice if the space bar didn't need to be held down for viewing the map. This isn't a big deal either, but I think toggling the map on/off would be better.

 

Once again, thanks; I look forward to seeing more.

 

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2 hours ago, Goochman said:

I think the new floor gradient helps with the wall presentation

I second that. Much as I liked the dithered floor effect visually, it wasn't helping my eyes make the distinction between walls and floor at times. This test floor gradient makes it a lot easier to navigate freely without having to consult the map all the time. (Obviously running in Altirra).

 

EDIT: I also am just wondering what it would look like if the floor dithering was kept but made much darker still? Would be interesting to see. That's because with the new test flooring without dithering, I must admit it does lose the effect of the floor at least looking different to the sky, aesthetically, as in the full game version.  A darker dithered floor might be enough to help differentiate the walls from the floor still and improve the experience, whilst still having the floor and sky looking different from one another. Just a thought. :)

 

IMHO what would help more is to have the occasional alternate wall texture (so as an example like the skulls in the demo video in an earlier post), as these act as visual cues/reference points as you move about. But I totally appreciate memory constraints and perhaps the current engine, (or indeed the A8 limitations in general), won't allow for such things. 

 

I do wonder how this engine and subsequent ones might do when working with 128k or larger. Exciting times - great to see it running on my A8s and a while earlier I loaded the full game via my newly aquired SIO2PC USB (FTDI) via RespeQt on my recently Incognito-ed Atari 800 - looks great. (Seeing a 1979 designed A8 running such a title has added impact I've gotta say).

Edited by Beeblebrox
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On 11/2/2021 at 9:33 PM, goldy/gmg aka lopez453 said:

believe me, I played on 55 inch LCD from longer distance, tried all kind of filters, softness etc. but better results were on the 10 inch JVC CRT broadcast monitor.

 

One interesting feature on modern LCD televisions we tried was motion smoothing, that most of modern tv sets offer. Try it ... it's hw cheating but looks nice, as the big pixels actually move smoothly "inbetween" atari's resolution pixel positions.

 

 

Still no curtains to darken the new living room nor has the wall been painted yet (tomorrow sigh , been painting walls for the past 7 days) but a 170 centimers high x 290 centimers wide image had to be tried out on my just-moved 800XE just an hour ago (21:00 PM here) with all lights turned off in the living room, me and the projector sitting 5 meters away from the wall.

IMG_6977.thumb.JPG.4567ed945715796f4bea6eebd5b509d2.JPG
IMG_6978.thumb.JPG.b1c4fed6fd678f3657266523858086a0.JPG

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7 hours ago, globe said:

As for the horizontal mirroring, I get the part about half the vram, half the texture space needed (not entirely aboard with texture being mirrored but 1 page per texture instead of 2 is surely enticing)

but I don't get the 'calculation time' unless you mean time spent drawing into only half the vram.

Yes, I mean mainly drawing time, but also time for e.g. preparation of animated tiles.

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12 hours ago, MrFish said:

I'm guessing it's already figured into the difficulty of the game, but this is just a general feature of importance. Turning speed was always a problem for FPS before mouse movement was introduced (even in games with high frame rates). I'm not suggesting adding a mouse, but possibly keys for fast/coarse turning. This is important when something is shooting you in back of the head, and you end up getting nailed 5 times (or end up dying) before you can face your enemy. Basically, at this point, things just call for more stealth and carefulness to move about safely; so I take it as part of the gameplay. Realistically, a person can turn around in an instant -- especially when danger is involved.

Marco already suggested faster turning during the testing and we had test versions with extra controls for 12 degrees coarse scrolling (4 times faster than normal turning) and 90 degrees turns but in the end these were left out.

So yeah, now the gameplay is more 'tactical', slower instead of the usual run and gun many FPSes have.

 

12 hours ago, MrFish said:

Custom key configurations/bindings. Everybody has their preference; and if the keys aren't in the right spots for a player, it can make navigation/gameplay more challenging (or awkward). Not a huge deal; people can adapt; but it would certainly be welcome.

Option screen is definitely something that will happen in version for larger memory machines. There's a bit of a HW problem with ATARI keys though, only one key press at a time is registered so things like 'standard' AWSD controls often used on PCs won't allow for simultaneous walking forward/backwards while also strafing for example.

There are some possibilities to work around this by using SHIFT, console keys etc. but all in all it's somewhat less straightforward than what people are accustomed to from newer systems.

12 hours ago, MrFish said:

 

It would be nice if the space bar didn't need to be held down for viewing the map. This isn't a big deal either, but I think toggling the map on/off would be better.

Map toggling was a bigger back and forth between me and Marco.

At first the map was toggled by OPTION, which I didn't see as a problem because I did 99% of work on PC through WUDSN + Altirra combo and default key mappings were F4 = OPTION and F5 = RESET.

On standard PC keyboard there's a gap between F4 and F5 so I never fumbled around and accidentally pushed reset when turning on the map.

Marco found out on real HW that it's a problem and there's a real possibility of reseting during frequent use of the map, so we moved the map key to space.

As for the hold to show / turn on/off, once again I had trouble to find space.

Not going to go into much details but the result was space on / space off controls needed 57 bytes and hold space only 19 bytes.

This was also somewhat caused by the fact ROM was off and I had to deal with all the key pressing controls myself.

 

13 hours ago, Goochman said:

I think the new floor gradient helps with the wall presentation

 

12 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

I second that. Much as I liked the dithered floor effect visually, it wasn't helping my eyes make the distinction between walls and floor at times. This test floor gradient makes it a lot easier to navigate freely without having to consult the map all the time. (Obviously running in Altirra).

Ok, noted in the v1.1 buglist.

 

12 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

IMHO what would help more is to have the occasional alternate wall texture (so as an example like the skulls in the demo video in an earlier post), as these act as visual cues/reference points as you move about. But I totally appreciate memory constraints and perhaps the current engine, (or indeed the A8 limitations in general), won't allow for such things. 

Texture generator for more variety was considered but as with many other features it didn't get in.

Work in progress version is attached. !!! XEX will only work in emulators again. !!!

Press Start, Select or Option to see a couple of generated textures.

Compared to 512 bytes needed for one directly stored texture, 8 of these generated textures only required 582 bytes total, although many of them have simpler look without gradients and details.

 

12 hours ago, Lastic said:

Still no curtains to darken the new living room nor has the wall been painted yet (tomorrow sigh , been painting walls for the past 7 days) but a 170 centimers high x 290 centimers wide image had to be tried out on my just-moved 800XE just an hour ago (21:00 PM here) with all lights turned off in the living room, me and the projector sitting 5 meters away from the wall.

Oh my God! The pixels are almost as huge as the wall sockets.

texture generator 2.xex

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fabu-tastic at last a doom like game for our little 8 bits, well done to those that made it, i like this a lot!! many thanks guys!

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@globe 

 

  15 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

I second that. Much as I liked the dithered floor effect visually, it wasn't helping my eyes make the distinction between walls and floor at times. This test floor gradient makes it a lot easier to navigate freely without having to consult the map all the time. (Obviously running in Altirra).

Ok, noted in the v1.1 buglist.

 

:DCool thanks:thumbsup:

  15 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

IMHO what would help more is to have the occasional alternate wall texture (so as an example like the skulls in the demo video in an earlier post), as these act as visual cues/reference points as you move about. But I totally appreciate memory constraints and perhaps the current engine, (or indeed the A8 limitations in general), won't allow for such things. 

Texture generator for more variety was considered but as with many other features it didn't get in.

Work in progress version is attached. !!! XEX will only work in emulators again. !!!

Press Start, Select or Option to see a couple of generated textures.

Compared to 512 bytes needed for one directly stored texture, 8 of these generated textures only required 582 bytes total, although many of them have simpler look without gradients and details.

 

:grin:Thanks @globe I just had a look and the texture generator XEX you posted in Altirra. Looking great. Now these proposed textures incorporated into the walls intermmitently would almost certainly A) greatly enhance the visual cues for navigating around and B) enhance the variety of the aesthetics in the walls.

 

That's one thing I always loved about Wolf3d: the framed pictures, banners, embedded stone statues, etc scattered in between the stone, brick, wood panelling, and rivited metal panels/wall textures. (Obviously we don't have the luxury of multicolour with the current engine and generally with the A8, but the variety of these WIP textures alone would massively enhance things IMHO. Amazing work, hats off to you!:D:thumbsup:

 

ZDoom • View topic - [MONSTER][WEAPON] Additional Wolf3D Resources

Edited by Beeblebrox
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same scene emulated in 80x25 resolution and only some sprite coloring - objects or enemies.... ) and I DID NOT reduce the greyscale to only 16 shades.

 

You would really need to come close to the wall to appreciate at least some details in textures and MAYBE be able to distinguish between Hitlers and Stalins posters 🙂

 

Snímka obrazovky 2021-11-05 o 13.16.26.png

Edited by goldy/gmg aka lopez453
colors
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36 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Obviously we don't have the luxury of multicolour with the current engine and generally with the A8

Let's hope one of these days NRV will find enough free time to finish Project-M because that 256 colors IRQ driven magic engine is in a class of its own.

Edited by globe
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Just now, globe said:

Let's hope one of these days NRV will find enough free time to finish Project-M because that 256 colors IRQ driven magic engine is in a class of it's own.

@globe Absolutely. That would be amazing, the Project_m engine is amazing to behold. And to have your engine as well, wherever it is going, would be amazing. Like many have said it's just great to see these things running on the A8, and I'd hazzard a guess that these engines can be pushed further from the looks of it, given your continued work, tweaks.  :)

 

What do you reckon to my other suggestion to test keeping the original dithered floor but just experiment with darkening the gradient for it more?  I might work and allow you to keep the floor looking different to the sky/ceiling, but avoid the current situation for some where it's hard to distinguish between walls and floor at times.

 

Also I'd be really intrigued to see how your engine would deal with the scenario of a dark playspace, (ie a level where there was intentional limited light to add mood or another dimension to play?) Also have you entertained the idea of future incarnations of the engine, (maybe utilising 128k), simulating getting into a lift to access different floors, or perhaps sliding doors?  I am thinking of the Numen demo and vector(?) engine example. Giving the illusion you have gotten into a lift, moved to the basement, etc would be cool.:D

 

Just throwing things out here, (you'll have to excuse my exuberance - it's not often you get to see an engine like this on A8s and it's rather exciting:grin:)

 

Great work!!:lust:

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34 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

What do you reckon to my other suggestion to test keeping the original dithered floor but just experiment with darkening the gradient for it more?  I might work and allow you to keep the floor looking different to the sky/ceiling, but avoid the current situation for some where it's hard to distinguish between walls and floor at times.

XEX with half bright dithered floor attached, as always only works in emulator, not on the real HW.

This one actually looks pretty decent I think.

36 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Also I'd be really intrigued to see how your engine would deal with the scenario of a dark playspace, (ie a level where there was intentional limited light to add mood or another dimension to play?) 

If you mean only really dark textures, there would be loss of detail since we only have 16 shades to work with.

If you mean actual (even if faked) local lightning that wouldn't work at all in current engine because the lightning effect of shooting and rpg / bfg are depth only.

There's no code for any local fake lighting and although we talked about level with flashlight nothing besides a few brief notes for future research exists.

43 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Also have you entertained the idea of future incarnations of the engine, (maybe utilising 128k), simulating getting into a lift to access different floors, or perhaps sliding doors? 

Currently sliding doors are possible to do but only inside the map segment (some extra ram would be required obviously), between segments it would require much more ram, rewrite of enemy handling and some clever solution (probably through level design and enemy/item placement) because of the enemy and item limit.

Since 2 PMGs are used for every object and enemy, only 2 at once can be shown.

Also with either kind of door there would be some slight speed penalty in the raycasting part because instead of 2 possible outcomes - we hit the wall / we didn't hit the wall, the door hit part would have to be also handled.

54 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

I am thinking of the Numen demo and vector(?) engine example. Giving the illusion you have gotten into a lift, moved to the basement, etc would be cool.

That should be possible to fake but there won't be the freedom of movement same as in Vector engine because that one is real 3D, not 2.5D like wolf clones.

 

My ''original'' idea from before I even started to write the code was that I'd like to make a game similar to System Shock in some ways.

Like player would find logs on computer terminals with hints for door keypad codes, hack doors and mainframes (some logical mini game) etc., so nothing really groundbreaking or original but with a bit more variety than just shooting everything that moves.

But after things started to materialize and RAM started to vanish really fast I realized that for this version it's not meant to be, so maybe sometimes in the future.

FA FLOOR TEST 2 !!! WON'T RUN ON NORMAL HW ONLY IN EMULATOR !!!.xex

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  1 hour ago, Beeblebrox said:

What do you reckon to my other suggestion to test keeping the original dithered floor but just experiment with darkening the gradient for it more?  I might work and allow you to keep the floor looking different to the sky/ceiling, but avoid the current situation for some where it's hard to distinguish between walls and floor at times.

XEX with half bright dithered floor attached, as always only works in emulator, not on the real HW.

This one actually looks pretty decent I think.

 

@globe  thanks. I'll run this and the main release side by side in a mo. (Dual screens on my laptop setup).

  1 hour ago, Beeblebrox said:

Also I'd be really intrigued to see how your engine would deal with the scenario of a dark playspace, (ie a level where there was intentional limited light to add mood or another dimension to play?) 

If you mean only really dark textures, there would be loss of detail since we only have 16 shades to work with.

If you mean actual (even if faked) local lightning that wouldn't work at all in current engine because the lightning effect of shooting and rpg / bfg are depth only.

There's no code for any local fake lighting and although we talked about level with flashlight nothing besides a few brief notes for future research exists.

 

I see what you mean in both instances. Yes, would be interesting to see how you'd fake the flashlight effect. 

  1 hour ago, Beeblebrox said:

Also have you entertained the idea of future incarnations of the engine, (maybe utilising 128k), simulating getting into a lift to access different floors, or perhaps sliding doors? 

Currently sliding doors are possible to do but only inside the map segment (some extra ram would be required obviously), between segments it would require much more ram, rewrite of enemy handling and some clever solution (probably through level design and enemy/item placement) because of the enemy and item limit.

Since 2 PMGs are used for every object and enemy, only 2 at once can be shown.

Also with either kind of door there would be some slight speed penalty in the raycasting part because instead of 2 possible outcomes - we hit the wall / we didn't hit the wall, the door hit part would have to be also handled.

 

Really interesting. I see what you mean with a speed penalty. I am sure there are some existing A8 games that fake lift effects or hanger bay door opening type effects, (poss Alt reality, or Rescue of Fractalus). I'll have a look and see. Either way to have clever lift effect illusions might be another nice touch for future revs of the engine, if not this game.

  1 hour ago, Beeblebrox said:

I am thinking of the Numen demo and vector(?) engine example. Giving the illusion you have gotten into a lift, moved to the basement, etc would be cool.

That should be possible to fake but there won't be the freedom of movement same as in Vector engine because that one is real 3D, not 2.5D like wolf clones.

 

Gotcha. Interesting regarding filled Vector engine being real 3D, as opposed to wolf3D clone being 2.5D. Certainly the raycasting and speed achieved from the latter is well worth it. Fluidity is pretty key in these engines. I do remember playing Mecenary for hours BITD and still getting immersed, dispite the rudamentry line vector and slow framerate.

 

My ''original'' idea from before I even started to write the code was that I'd like to make a game similar to System Shock in some ways.

Like player would find logs on computer terminals with hints for door keypad codes, hack doors and mainframes (some logical mini game) etc., so nothing really groundbreaking or original but with a bit more variety than just shooting everything that moves.

But after things started to materialize and RAM started to vanish really fast I realized that for this version it's not meant to be, so maybe sometimes in the future.

 

Gotcha. I vaguely remember playing system shock. You initial plans sound amazing and I am sure at some stage if you want to those elements would be great with this engine. 

 

Excuse my total ignorance but does this engine use DLIs at all in the main playfield?  (Not including the hi res lower half of the screen of course). 

 

Also you mention the enemies are using up the PMGs, (2 x per enemy). Again I am likley totally out of my depth here but what about utilising PM sprite multiplexing for enemies?

 

:party:

Edited by Beeblebrox
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5 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Excuse my total ignorance but does this engine use DLIs at all in the main playfield?  (Not including the hi res lower half of the screen of course). 

Yes. mainly for hscroll trick (making the Gr.9 pixels vertically thicker without the need for copying same line in Display list) and for coloring and repositioning Players and Missiles.

Players only need repositioning because they are also used in lower part of HUD for selected weapon coloring.

Missiles are used in multiple ways. In the middle of screen for weapon cross hairs, shooting effects on the wall when you use first 3 guns, flying projectiles when you (or the last boss) uses bigger guns and in the lower half for coloring the big blocky gun shape.

16 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

what about utilising PM sprite multiplexing for enemies?

If this engine had the option for looking up and down it would be easy to multiplex PMGs with 2 enemies above each other - never overlapping.

Can't imagine multiplexing for enemies standing side by side without annoying flicker.

 

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1 hour ago, globe said:

Yes. mainly for hscroll trick (making the Gr.9 pixels vertically thicker without the need for copying same line in Display list) and for coloring and repositioning Players and Missiles.

Players only need repositioning because they are also used in lower part of HUD for selected weapon coloring.

Missiles are used in multiple ways. In the middle of screen for weapon cross hairs, shooting effects on the wall when you use first 3 guns, flying projectiles when you (or the last boss) uses bigger guns and in the lower half for coloring the big blocky gun shape.

@globe I see. thanks for explaining. I forgot about the cross hairs, projectiles, etc. I guess I was wondering about the use of DLIs to get more colour in order to perhaps change the colour of the floor and/or sky relative to the walls - but if that were remotely possible with this engine it's likely you would have done so I guess. Then there is a hit on the CPU anyway. Again you'll have to excuse my ignorance.:dunce:

Quote

If this engine had the option for looking up and down it would be easy to multiplex PMGs with 2 enemies above each other - never overlapping.

Can't imagine multiplexing for enemies standing side by side without annoying flicker.

 

Ah yes of course, the multiplexing is vertical.  I suppose I was wondering if multiple enemies were onscreen, those aerial based enemies would be in the upper half of screen and those ground based would be lower half of the screen - meaning mean more enemies would be possible on screen? (taking into account CPU and memory constraints of course).

Of course the immediate issue there is the cross hairs are fixed centrally and there would be no way to aim at lower or higher placed enemies on screen. :ponder:;)

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain, really appreciated.:D

Edited by Beeblebrox
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@globe apologies BTW - my last comment about multiplexing was based on my misreading what you said about the engine not being able to look up and down. Hence my comments which ultimately repeat what you said. My bad.:D

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@globe

 

Ok I ran the test 2 half light level dithered floor version alongside the full game lighter dithered version. (Both in Altirra of course).

 

Generally I think the floor works better at the darker half levels bnetween the two.:thumbsup:

 

Test 2 half light dithered version on left, full game release (as it stands currently), on Right:

 

image.thumb.png.3c504f35db32354e0521e7d5ffbaa349.png

 

image.thumb.png.1ac6ce330451136086811a28528ee638.png

 

Next if you could generate Parquet or Herringbone style flooring, and some detailed Roman mosaics.. that would be great! ;):lol::D

 

Seriously though, I think the possible addition of the new textures you are working on as posted early (#134), combined with the half light dithered flooring is going to be very effective/interesting should they ever find their way into potential future revisions.

 

Also here is the comparrison between the non-dithered test 1 version alongside the test 2 half light dithered version;

 (Test 1 non dithered floor on left, test 2 half light dithered on right):

 

image.thumb.png.ed0a96b529ec0e42a537e83f52505d52.png

 

image.thumb.png.b5b3a7e1753c3880337338e468caa2e5.png

 

Generally between the test 1 non dithered flooring and the test 2 half light dithered flooring I am a bit torn.

 

I find the non dithered version allows me to see more clearly and navigate more easily as I can gauge my bearings better. (Especially when up close to walls or in narrower passages).

However the half dithered version isn't far behind in that respect and I can't help it - I prefer the floor and sky not to look the same, (eg horizontal lines).

 

Be interested to know what others think.:)

 

One thing I guess you could do if space was freed up somehow or you were running the engine in 128k for possible future revisions, is to have a configuration menu. That way players could simply choose to have dithered or non dithered flooring, and maybe it's entirely possible that the light levels could be adjustable. Then people could fine tune them.

 

BTW I know I jested earlier re the parquet flooring heh heh... however I am curious to know - is the floor dither pattern something else you tried different effects with during development? For example would a diagonal floor dither pattern yield better results visually, if it were of course feasible? I know by the very nature of the engine, Hscrol, and graphics mode it has to run in horizontal gradients. However the dither itself could presumably run in a diagonal direction, rather than the "castle turret/tooth" type pattern? Just throwing it out there. I am sure you had thought of all of this during development.:D

 

Also as a bit of player feedback in terms of colour schemes I have noticed the blue coloured areas are easier on the eye for navigating than say orange or pink for example. Whenever I've gone into the orange sections I find my eyes have to adjust all over again. Other players might not have the same experience.

 

Which reminds me... I must book that opticians appointment... I am in need of a new pair of specs:grin:;):

 

image.png.70049c12ad6381b830c03ebd472b3084.png

 

thanks

 

 

Edited by Beeblebrox
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@globe  Interestingly, following my earlier post regarding elevator/lift effects in games, whilst I didn't find anything at present to illustrate that, I did come across this video of a 1994 Apogee DOS 2.5D FPS called Blake Stone. (This one passed me by back in the day although I read it was released a week before the release of some game called "DOOM".... so maybe it was overshadowed. :grin:;)

 

Damn those soundcard tunes and sampled sound effects take me back!:music:

 

Anyway having just watched a bit of the blake stone gameplay video what is interesting is that some of the wall textures are tied in with either horizontal or vertical patterns running through them. I know we can't directly compare as this is obviously running at a higher resolution, speed, loads more colours, etc etc. But if you were to take away from it the same idea of carrying the main repeated wall textures with these continuous horizontal or vertical patterns, I wonder if it would help visually for players to gauge bearings.

 

So the likes of these, obviously in the lower resolution, 16 shades of the same colour, etc with the occasional other textures acting as visual cues:

 

image.png.753e83a916c8d54efee5459cd16dabd3.png   image.png.35c05904d1228d3fda48b0e8b1a3f808.png  image.png.8837eeda5ba32e41265fc9ab8ff8067d.png

 

 

 

 

What also caught my eye was the health heart rate monitor - Niiiice! :D:

image.png.e627f0d7096b8266c0f56f04cd638264.png

 

(red line running through is courtesy of YouTube btw) 

 

Obviously all of this is more memory, but just saying for future revisions of the engine with 128k, or higher. 

 

Edited by Beeblebrox
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the floor discussion reminds me our discussion when talking about floor/ceiling in the SNES Wolf part...
 


we never were satisfied actually with the floor itself... but I would prefer the dithered one as the "non dithered" one looks more "static" and "raster like"?

regarding the textures that needed a lot of tweaking so scaling down and up got no pixel mess in terms of details...

 

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