reifsnyderb Posted November 11, 2021 Author Share Posted November 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, wildstar87 said: You might be thinking of the 130XE remake board, I don't think @reifsnyderb got permission AFAIK. UAV footprint measurements could still be useful. Yeah, I didn't get permission. I don't think the footprint is a problem for the UAV as it just plugs in. (I had to re-add the DIP socket back in for it, though. lol) I made sure nothing else conflicts as per the pictures of one installed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 (edited) Hello reifsnyderb 13 minutes ago, reifsnyderb said: Do you have a bigger copy of that memory upgrade print? Also, timing problems are mentioned....were they resolved? I still have to incorporate them into my own site, but in the mean time, you can find them here. Since the upgrade works great on the XEGS, the timing problems are probably due to the way I tried to incorporate the idea into the 800XL and 800XE (read: I probably made a couple of errors by soldering the wires to the wrong places). And as I said, I'd do things different now. Use more modern hardware. And maybe even only switch banks around when the signals that control OS ROM/RAM, BASIC, (Missile Command) and the Selftest are frozen. As is, when I change the status of OS ROM/RAM, BASIC, (Missile Command) or the Selftest, I switch around banks too. I'd probably stop that from happening if I redid the design. Sincerely Mathy Edited November 12, 2021 by Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reifsnyderb Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Mathy said: Hello reifsnyderb I still have to incorporate them into my own site, but in the mean time, you can find them here. Since the upgrade works great on the XEGS, the timing problems are probably due to the way I tried to incorporate the idea into the 800XL and 800XE (read: I probably made a couple of errors by soldering the wires to the wrong places). And as I said, I'd do things different now. Use more modern hardware. And maybe even only switch banks around when the signals that control OS ROM/RAM, BASIC, (Missile Command) and the Selftest are frozen. As is, when I change the status of OS ROM/RAM, BASIC, (Missile Command) or the Selftest, I switch around banks too. I'd probably stop that from happening if I redid the design. Sincerely Mathy I printed it out and will take a look at it. If I were to connect all of the lines I could always change their use with the CPLDs. I'll take a closer look after I finish the current additions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reifsnyderb Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 Updated Pictures.... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam242 Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 (edited) A breakout header pin for PB7 would be appreciated... As well as pins for the console keys (start, select, option, reset). Utilized by the Atarimax Warp OS upgrade, one of my favorites. Edited November 12, 2021 by adam242 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, adam242 said: A breakout header pin for PB7 would be appreciated... As well as pins for the console keys (start, select, option, reset). Utilized by the Atarimax Warp OS upgrade, one of my favorites. and the 1200xl f keys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 30 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: and the 1200xl f keys... Those are already a part of the normal key matrix, which something like the TransKey can already access via Pokey. I guess it could also be hardwired on the 4051 side of things by selecting the appropriate rows and columns, and then feed that to a board header for connecting up the 4 switches. And just like what was done for the 130XE mother board remake, a socket for a TK-II could also be included if someone doesn't mind using a separate PS/2 keyboard (the firmware is in the public domain). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reifsnyderb Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 57 minutes ago, adam242 said: A breakout header pin for PB7 would be appreciated... As well as pins for the console keys (start, select, option, reset). Utilized by the Atarimax Warp OS upgrade, one of my favorites. Is this it? https://www.8bitclassics.com/product/atari-xlxe-ape-warp-os-32-in-1-switchless-upgrade-module/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reifsnyderb Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, mytek said: Those are already a part of the normal key matrix, which something like the TransKey can already access via Pokey. I guess it could also be hardwired on the 4051 side of things by selecting the appropriate rows and columns, and then feed that to a board header for connecting up the 4 switches. And just like what was done for the 130XE mother board remake, a socket for a TK-II could also be included if someone doesn't mind using a separate PS/2 keyboard (the firmware is in the public domain). People keep mentioning the TK-II. I don't understand the need for another keyboard. Is there a reason when the Atari already has a keyboard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam242 Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 48 minutes ago, reifsnyderb said: Is this it? https://www.8bitclassics.com/product/atari-xlxe-ape-warp-os-32-in-1-switchless-upgrade-module/ Yes, exactly. It's native homepage: https://www.atarimax.com/warpos/documentation/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, reifsnyderb said: People keep mentioning the TK-II. I don't understand the need for another keyboard. Is there a reason when the Atari already has a keyboard? Its just an alternative for the built-in one, that tended to be pretty crappy in the XE years. Also having the same layout as your daily driver PC is rather nice when switching back and forth between your Atari and the PC. It can also be rather liberating to have an external keyboard that can be placed on your lap while you recline in your lazy-boy. One last thing is the fact that you can get some very nice NOS keyboards with a great feel off of Ebay for a decent price. Don't forget that these come standard with a numeric keypad already built-in, as well as separate arrow keys and other very useful navigation keys thanks to 1200XL F1-F4 support. Understandably for some this is not gonna be their thing, and they will have nothing to do with it, choosing instead to stick with the full retro experience - which includes the stock built-in Atari keyboard. However adding support really comes down to including a single 18-pin IC socket for the PIC16F1847 chip, and either a 4-pin header to connect a Mini-DIN keyboard connector to, or better yet use a PCB version, by placing a footprint for it on the mother board towards the back or side as was done with this 600XL of mine. Keep in mind that the PS/2 keyboard does not negate the use of the original stock Atari keyboard - they're both usable. TK-II Info EDIT1: Newest TK-II firmware only requires 4 connections to Pokey (K0, K5, KR1, KR2). All other Kx connections can be skipped. EDIT2: the PIC16F1847-I/P can normally be purchased from Digi-Key, Mouser, or Newark, but currently stock is very low probably due to the world-wide chip shortage. Edited November 12, 2021 by mytek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 It could be useful to include a 28-pin BASIC socket footprint, with 2 jumpers allowing selection of either 2364 ROM(24-pin) or 2764 EPROM(28-pin) configuration. Some versions of the 600XL PCB implemented this, but only used a 24-pin socket on the 28-pin footprint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reifsnyderb Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, BillC said: It could be useful to include a 28-pin BASIC socket footprint, with 2 jumpers allowing selection of either 2364 ROM(24-pin) or 2764 EPROM(28-pin) configuration. Some versions of the 600XL PCB implemented this, but only used a 24-pin socket on the 28-pin footprint. Done! ? CORRECTION: That wouldn't work. I found the problem on review and fixed it below. Edited November 12, 2021 by reifsnyderb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorfdbg Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 Thanks, that's really useful. I kinna hacked a 2764 to 2364 adapter into my XL, but having this from day one without additional work is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reifsnyderb Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 I just reviewed the jumper configuration for the BASIC ROM and found a problem. It's fixed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 44 minutes ago, reifsnyderb said: I just reviewed the jumper configuration for the BASIC ROM and found a problem. It's fixed. Nice ? As for the inclusion of a TK-II socket... I just checked on Octopart and see that there are only a handful of PIC16F1847-I/P chips spread across the various distributors. This is an unprecedented phenomena which I've never seen before. Perhaps someone has figured out how to use these in car electronics, or they already were being used in that application. At any rate, I don't see this chip going the way of the Dodo, but it might be some time before the stocks are replenished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reifsnyderb Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 12 hours ago, mytek said: Its just an alternative for the built-in one, that tended to be pretty crappy in the XE years. Also having the same layout as your daily driver PC is rather nice when switching back and forth between your Atari and the PC. It can also be rather liberating to have an external keyboard that can be placed on your lap while you recline in your lazy-boy. One last thing is the fact that you can get some very nice NOS keyboards with a great feel off of Ebay for a decent price. Don't forget that these come standard with a numeric keypad already built-in, as well as separate arrow keys and other very useful navigation keys thanks to 1200XL F1-F4 support. Understandably for some this is not gonna be their thing, and they will have nothing to do with it, choosing instead to stick with the full retro experience - which includes the stock built-in Atari keyboard. However adding support really comes down to including a single 18-pin IC socket for the PIC16F1847 chip, and either a 4-pin header to connect a Mini-DIN keyboard connector to, or better yet use a PCB version, by placing a footprint for it on the mother board towards the back or side as was done with this 600XL of mine. Keep in mind that the PS/2 keyboard does not negate the use of the original stock Atari keyboard - they're both usable. TK-II Info EDIT1: Newest TK-II firmware only requires 4 connections to Pokey (K0, K5, KR1, KR2). All other Kx connections can be skipped. EDIT2: the PIC16F1847-I/P can normally be purchased from Digi-Key, Mouser, or Newark, but currently stock is very low probably due to the world-wide chip shortage. Do the start, select, and option connections get connected between the resistor and the switch or between the resistor and GTIA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, reifsnyderb said: Do the start, select, and option connections get connected between the resistor and the switch or between the resistor and GTIA? It's best to go between the resistor and GTIA just to better protect the PIC's I/O when switched to output mode and someone were to also press the physical switch at the same time. Although the chances of that happening is pretty low, and I believe the PIC I/O has over current protection incorporated anyway. I've actually done it both ways without encountering any problems, but better safe than sorry. EDIT: BTW the PIC's I/O gets changed to an input when not actively being used to initiate a console switch action, thus floating it on the bus and allowing the Atari's switches to work as well. Edited November 12, 2021 by mytek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reifsnyderb Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 3 hours ago, reifsnyderb said: Do the start, select, and option connections get connected between the resistor and the switch or between the resistor and GTIA? How far is it from the center of your second joystick port to the center of your keyboard port? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reifsnyderb Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 TK-II has been added. The PIC is needed, of course. I plan to add a header to the back left for it as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reifsnyderb Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 Ape Warp + OS Upgrade headers added as well as another TK-II header near where the RF converter was. I think everything is covered now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reifsnyderb Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 Overview picture.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Spancho Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 Can you please cater for a DIN8 socket as monitor port? I am pretty sure that a DIN5 & 8 share the same 5 pins at the same location on the PCB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reifsnyderb Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 Any thoughts on how to fully buffer the PBI? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reifsnyderb Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Spancho said: Can you please cater for a DIN8 socket as monitor port? I am pretty sure that a DIN5 & 8 share the same 5 pins at the same location on the PCB. I am thinking about using more common foot prints for the ports. (Except for the obvious like SIO...) I'll put this on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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