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reifsnyderb

Atari 800 XL Remake

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Here is another idea. Since there is no RF modulator, maybe the hole for it can be leveraged for another connector. One option would be to use it for a stereo jack plug. Another, is to use it for video out. Another idea is to use it video connection for enhanced video output from Sophia 2 using a 4 pin TRRS jack (got this idea from the C64’s version of video enhancement) or maybe use a mini hdmi. There was someone here on Atari Age that made a Sophia board that terminated to mini HDMI instead of DVI. The reason I mention this that there see they a lot of people who may use this motherboard in their Atari 800XL case but do not wish to radically modify their case to accommodate the enhancement.

 

 

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3 hours ago, kheller2 said:

Yes you are correct. I was just curious if this was started from scratch or was based on the previous work then modified with all the improvements.  

 

Ah, I got you.

 

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10 hours ago, reifsnyderb said:

That would be cool.  Once the 800XL is working it would be just a matter of making up another board with minor modifications to the schematic.  (The same could be done for the 600XL, too.)  Currently I have access to an Atari 2600, 5200, 800, and 800XL.

I would be happy to donate (or at least lend) a 600XL to help facilitate development of that replacement board.

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7 hours ago, reifsnyderb said:

So the 576 NUC may have the best video then?

 

Edited to add:  After looking at the 576 NUC schematic, it doesn't look like it would support UAV.

 

Edited to add:  After looking some more, the PIC12F1571-I/MS is a microcontroller.  So, let's keep it simple.

My thinking is that you wouldn't need to have UAV if you used the NUC circuit, but to allow UAV to plug in, would just have to have a header exposed, like on 1088XEL that the UAV plugs into.  For that matter, you could make the NUC circuit the same form factor, and have them be interchangeable on the board.

PIC12F1571 is for the VGATE, which already has firmware, and technically isn't needed, however would be nice to have since it cuts off the garbage visible on overscan in some cases.

 

Just checking a few places, looks like DIP and SOIC versions are readily available.  Also the 1572 version can be used as a substitute, the only difference on the datasheet is memory, which the 1572 has 256bytes vs 1571 has 128bytes

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3 hours ago, Mathy said:

Hello reifsnyderb

 

 

Please provide pickup points for bits 0, 1 and 7 too.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

These are used for BIOS, BASIC, and self check.  If they are used for banking, won't there be compatibility issues?

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1 hour ago, adam242 said:

I would be happy to donate (or at least lend) a 600XL to help facilitate development of that replacement board.

Thank you!  After the 800xl board is done I'll check back unless I happen to score a 600xl for cheap on ebay.

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4 minutes ago, wildstar87 said:

My thinking is that you wouldn't need to have UAV if you used the NUC circuit, but to allow UAV to plug in, would just have to have a header exposed, like on 1088XEL that the UAV plugs into.  For that matter, you could make the NUC circuit the same form factor, and have them be interchangeable on the board.

PIC12F1571 is for the VGATE, which already has firmware, and technically isn't needed, however would be nice to have since it cuts off the garbage visible on overscan in some cases.

 

Just checking a few places, looks like DIP and SOIC versions are readily available.  Also the 1572 version can be used as a substitute, the only difference on the datasheet is memory, which the 1572 has 256bytes vs 1571 has 128bytes

I was under the impression the VGATE needed custom firmware loaded.....or is it ready to go as-is?

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2 minutes ago, reifsnyderb said:

I was under the impression the VGATE needed custom firmware loaded.....or is it ready to go as-is?

Yes it needs custom firmware, but it's readily available, can be flashed easily using a Pickit2, or Joy2Pic (another Mytek innovation).

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2 hours ago, scorpio_ny said:

Here is another idea. Since there is no RF modulator, maybe the hole for it can be leveraged for another connector. One option would be to use it for a stereo jack plug. Another, is to use it for video out. Another idea is to use it video connection for enhanced video output from Sophia 2 using a 4 pin TRRS jack (got this idea from the C64’s version of video enhancement) or maybe use a mini hdmi. There was someone here on Atari Age that made a Sophia board that terminated to mini HDMI instead of DVI. The reason I mention this that there see they a lot of people who may use this motherboard in their Atari 800XL case but do not wish to radically modify their case to accommodate the enhancement.

 

 

I'd love to go the HDMI route but there are licensing issues with HDMI.  I started putting a DVI connector there but if someone can direct me to other options that would be great.  Do you have any links to these threads?

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I seem to recall discussion on the HDMI front has to do with the acronym HDMI.... if you use a mini hdmi port, but just send DVI to it, and not label it HDMI, then IIRC it doesn't have an HDMI licensing problem.

Of course there would be no audio, so one would have to pickup audio from the standard monitor DIN5 or something else, and not have it over 'hdmi' (this is no different than using the DVI port provided with a Sophia 2).  Haven't looked at the mini hdmi connector dimension, but might fit in the RF modulator output hole, or the channel 2/3 selector switch hole.

 

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1 hour ago, reifsnyderb said:

I'd love to go the HDMI route but there are licensing issues with HDMI.  I started putting a DVI connector there but if someone can direct me to other options that would be great.  Do you have any links to these threads?

Here is the link I was referring to. I made a mistake... the HDMI went through the hole of the RF channel selector. So.. maybe use the channel select for HDMI (or some other breakout cable for video): 

Atari 600XL NTSC and Sophia 2 HDMI install

And maybe use the RF modulator hole for a stereo jack? Then the monitor port can stay the same except for the other enhancements that was targeted towards that (chroma, VBXE).

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41 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

Here is the link I was referring to. I made a mistake... the HDMI went through the hole of the RF channel selector. So.. maybe use the channel select for HDMI (or some other breakout cable for video): 

Atari 600XL NTSC and Sophia 2 HDMI install

And maybe use the RF modulator hole for a stereo jack? Then the monitor port can stay the same except for the other enhancements that was targeted towards that (chroma, VBXE).

Is HDMI a subset of DVI or am I missing something?

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I added PokeyMAX support along with the existing SimpleStereo support.

 

Also, I added an onboard Sophia DVI connector for those that want to cut holes in their case.  (Count me out on that.)  This may be removed if a better solution is found.

pokeymax_simplestereo.png

sophia_dvi.png

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2 hours ago, reifsnyderb said:

Is HDMI a subset of DVI or am I missing something?

DVI-D is a video standard developed for computers/monitors. HDMI is an extension of DVI-D developed for consumer devices, using the same video signals and adding digital audio, with a new easier to use connector. While resolution has increased over the years I believe most HDMI devices are still compatible with DVI-D video signals.

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11 hours ago, BillC said:

DVI-D is a video standard developed for computers/monitors. HDMI is an extension of DVI-D developed for consumer devices, using the same video signals and adding digital audio, with a new easier to use connector. While resolution has increased over the years I believe most HDMI devices are still compatible with DVI-D video signals.

 

Yes, I believe this is true. That is why you can go from DVI-D to HDMI with a simple adapter and no conversion is needed.

 

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Support has been added for adding a header board for HDMI.  I might add some sort of breakout for it as well.  Also working on onboard SIO2PC.

 

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, bfollowell said:

 

Yes, I believe this is true. That is why you can go from DVI-D to HDMI with a simple adapter and no conversion is needed.

 

That makes sense and is why this works:    

 

 

Thanks!

 

 

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14 hours ago, reifsnyderb said:

I added PokeyMAX support along with the existing SimpleStereo support.

 

In your picture only A4, A5 and A7 are shown. For full usage of all PokeyMAX features please also add A6.

 

It would be great, if you plan to install some additional jacks using the spaces between PBI (left side) to monitor jack etc. - just place a single header row with the amount of pins needed for the jack below and you´re done. Why? For people who have no problems drilling holes for that, they can remove the mainboard everytime without spaghetti wires and the need to remove the jack. It looks really professional if made with patience.

 

My suggestions:

 

- 3.5mm stereo phone jack for stereo output (more great idea would be to connect left & right audio from this jack to the SimpleStereo/PokeyMAX support header)

- 6 pin Mini-DIN for PS/2 keyboard (included with PokeyMAX3 - dito)

- Single 90 degrees angled pushbutton for RNMI to have full 400/800 compatibility and support for OmniMon, BiboMon etc.

 

These would fit nicely next to the DVI out for Sophia2.

 

Another thing: Please expand the socket for BASIC ROM to 28 pins and make it selectable by two switches (two address lines must be changed). See 600XL schematic for details. This enables easy use of 2764 EPROMs to use the BASIC you want (Altirra Basic for example) for those they don´t want an U1MB.

 

See the needed connections for PokeyMAX3 here (PokeyMAX2 is similar, but need less signals)

 

232863359_PMv3WiringDiagram.thumb.png.d937866f243415594c04846e5e4a91a5.png

 

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18 minutes ago, tf_hh said:

 

In your picture only A4, A5 and A7 are shown. For full usage of all PokeyMAX features please also add A6.

 

It would be great, if you plan to install some additional jacks using the spaces between PBI (left side) to monitor jack etc. - just place a single header row with the amount of pins needed for the jack below and you´re done. Why? For people who have no problems drilling holes for that, they can remove the mainboard everytime without spaghetti wires and the need to remove the jack. It looks really professional if made with patience.

 

My suggestions:

 

- 3.5mm stereo phone jack for stereo output (more great idea would be to connect left & right audio from this jack to the SimpleStereo/PokeyMAX support header)

- 6 pin Mini-DIN for PS/2 keyboard (included with PokeyMAX3 - dito)

- Single 90 degrees angled pushbutton for RNMI to have full 400/800 compatibility and support for OmniMon, BiboMon etc.

 

These would fit nicely next to the DVI out for Sophia2.

 

Another thing: Please expand the socket for BASIC ROM to 28 pins and make it selectable by two switches (two address lines must be changed). See 600XL schematic for details. This enables easy use of 2764 EPROMs to use the BASIC you want (Altirra Basic for example) for those they don´t want an U1MB.

 

See the needed connections for PokeyMAX3 here (PokeyMAX2 is similar, but need less signals)

 

232863359_PMv3WiringDiagram.thumb.png.d937866f243415594c04846e5e4a91a5.png

 

Thanks for catching the A6 pin.  I've added it.

 

A couple questions:

 

1.  To confirm....Do you mean to have left and right audio (L Audio Analog Mixed and R Audio Analog Mixed, above)  ran up to the space between what is normally the RF connector (and possibly DVI) and the monitor jack with a ground on the header as well?

2.  Why is a PS/2 keyboard connector needed when the Atari already has a keyboard?

 

It looks like I should add Pin 11 of the SIO socket to the Simple Stereo/PokeyMAX header as well.

 

Thanks!

 

Brian

 

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On 11/10/2021 at 10:26 AM, wildstar87 said:

Footprint measurements for U1MB could be found on the 1088XEL gerbers.

This will make it a bit easier...

 

1154355765_U1MBDimensions.thumb.png.d99f01b2217243d340f3c2cee9a26dd8.png

 

I extracted this information from my 1088XLD PCB layout after exporting as DXF.

 

1088XLD_inches_main.dxf

1088XLD_mm_main.dxf

 

The standard UAV footprint is also in the DXFs, but if I understand correctly permission was already given to incorporate the UAV circuit, so this likely wouldn't be needed.

 

Looks like a nice project 👍

 

Edited by mytek
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Just now, reifsnyderb said:

Thanks!  Are there any mounting holes for the Ultimate 1MB?

No, and it doesn't require them. Because once it's plugged into the 3 headers, it's very secure. So much so, that it takes some good wiggling to extract it.

 

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Hello reifsnyderb

 

20 hours ago, reifsnyderb said:

These are used for BIOS, BASIC, and self check.  If they are used for banking, won't there be compatibility issues?

 

Not if you multiplex the signal.  I did that on my 1MB (+64kB) XEGS years ago.  When both PB4 and PB5 are high, PB0, PB1, PB6 (in the XEGS) and PB7 control OS ROM/RAM, BASIC, (Missile Command) and the Selftest as usual.  If either PB4 or PB5 or both go low, these signals (that control OS ROM/RAM, BASIC, (Missile Command) and the Selftest) are frozen and are used to switch in additional banks of memory.  Works even with TurboBASIC.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

PS see here: https://mathyvannisselroy.nl/memory_expansion/The slightly different memory.htm  The article was published 20 years ago, today I'd use the same idea but realize it differently.

 

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1 hour ago, mytek said:

The standard UAV footprint is also in the DXFs, but if I understand correctly permission was already given to incorporate the UAV circuit, so this likely wouldn't be needed.

 

Looks like a nice project 👍

 

You might be thinking of the 130XE remake board, I don't think @reifsnyderb got permission AFAIK.  UAV footprint measurements could still be useful.

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10 minutes ago, Mathy said:

Hello reifsnyderb

 

 

Not if you multiplex the signal.  I did that on my 1MB (+64kB) XEGS years ago.  When both PB4 and PB5 are high, PB0, PB1, PB6 (in the XEGS) and PB7 control OS ROM/RAM, BASIC, (Missile Command) and the Selftest as usual.  If either PB4 or PB5 or both go low, these signals (that control OS ROM/RAM, BASIC, (Missile Command) and the Selftest) are frozen and are used to switch in additional banks of memory.  Works even with TurboBASIC.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

PS see here: https://mathyvannisselroy.nl/memory_expansion/The slightly different memory.htm  The article was published 20 years ago, today I'd use the same idea but realize it differently.

 

Do you have a bigger copy of that memory upgrade print?  Also, timing problems are mentioned....were they resolved?

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