Lemmings - on my wishlist for a future revisit for the A8

[Beeblebrox]

I suspect for many it could be said why make a case for another Lemmings clone for the Atari 8-bit?

 

After all the Brundles is damn good in many ways, and the demo of Tommingi is equally good. The Daitri/Orion developments version of Lemmings, (Lemmingi?), is worth a mention also.

 

Like many in the 1990s I was obsessed with Lemmings. At the time there was nothing else like it in concept. I first played it whenever I went over to my mate's who had the Sega Master system. I then progressed to playing other platform versions over the years.

 

The combination of strategy, timing and juggling multiple characters and elements, with excellent animation and lots of colour had me hooked.

 

Unfortunately one of the horrible things about the Sega Master system version with a game like Lemmings - which requires precision control of a cross hair - is that it is absolutely horrible to control on a joypad, (IMHO)! So when I had the chance to play it with a mouse on subsequent systems it was a whole new experience and joy to play.

 

So as you can imagine BITD when I saw the Brundles was available in the 1990s I eagerly jumped at the chance to buy my copy. Still have it along with the level editor. Lemmings on the Atari 8-bit AND with mouse control!!  I spent a lot of hours BITD playing it I can tell ya.

 

However one of the things I loved about all other platform versions of Lemmings was the individual character animations. I always assumed that it wouldn't be possible for the Atari 8-bit. After all the Brundles animation, although pretty good, is jerky owning to the method employed in the graphics engine/mode used. I totally get why.

 

 

Then around the same time in the mid to late 90's I caught sight of a demo of another Lemmings clone -  Tommingi.

To my utter joy it had excellent animation, true to all other platforms - proving it was entirely possible. No jerky movement.

The main downsides - grayscale graphics, no mouse control and a demo only. A full game was never realised.

 

Interestingly the decision to go Grayscale for Tommingi may have been simply that the developer intended to implment it in the full version. (In the first second of this video the title screen is actually in colour for a split second).

 

 

AFAIK Tommingi is joystick only - please correct me if I am wrong. Again Lemmings games does not play well with a joystick IMHO.

 

One of my absolute top wishlist for game titles on the A8 is to have a definitive Lemmings game which has the following:

 

• Full character animation  - Tommingi proved it can be done and it looks amazing - no jerky movement.
• Full colour, employing the use of DLIs to really bring as much vibrancy into the background and foreground, (taking into account the A8's graphics limitations and being mindful of memory and cpu cycle constraints)
• Mouse control option (well implemented as good mouse control is key to good gameplay)
• A level editor (if at all possible).
• PAL/NTSC versions/detection
• The ability to turn off the music and have just the sound effects. (Much as I love the Brundles - at times the incessant music drove me crazy. (Now someone is gonna point out you can turn the music off heh heh!))

 

... and if at all possible (and for stock 64k A8 versions I suspect it wouldn't be feasible) - digitised sounds effects. (So explosions, creaks as the trapdoor opens, the legendary "let's go"). Perhaps the version could auto-detect the computer's installed RAM and load up the extra features accordingly.

 

....well... this is my wishlist after all.

 

BTW For non fans of Lemmings I apologise for wishing another version upon the scene.

 

However for those who love this genre, those who appreciate The Brundles but wished it had had a few more trademark Lemmings traits, and those who wished Tommingi in all it's animated glory had been completed and released in colour - this post is on your behalf - (he said selflessly  )

 

The reason I decided to post this topic now was mainly because of the following:

 

Since I rejoined the Atari 8-bit scene in spring earlier this year I've seen some amazing original games and ports become reality.

Flob is astoundingly good in every respect.

Final Assault was a wonderful surprise and looks to get even better in future revisions.

Prince of Persia has widely been recognised as the best version of the title on 8-bit and even 16-bit incarnations....which is totally deserved and it is amazing in every respect. Many thought it not possible on the A8.

Albert is fantastic in all its technicolour glory and speed.

 

We have l'Abbaye des Morts in development, as well as the Great Giana sisters.

I regularly boot up Atariblast! and marvel at it.

 

The momentum is building - there is some serious talent in the community creating all of these titles.

 

We have numerous existing titles that are being revisited and improved already. Why not Lemmings?

 

I think it was a crying shame that Tommingi wasn't fully realised. I'm sure there was a good reason for it BITD. Perhaps the original creator Tomek may still be interested in revisiting it, or passing the code on to another to develop? Who knows.

 

All I know is IMHO if the desire was there we could see a wonderfully colourful fully animated, mouse controlled Lemmings one day on the A8. That's not to put down the Brundles, which is still one of my fav games.

 

It just seems a shame the A8 can clearly do a Lemmings clone with the full animation and we have the modern storage mediums and great compression techniques to load in each level quicly, but it's not as yet been fully realised.

 

Put it this way - taking Prince of Persia as an example. If it had been released without it's amazing full frame character animation, with none of the scene setting animated intro cutscenes and just in-game bleeps for sound effects, it would have been a crying shame.

 

It thankfully wasn't, all concerned went all out on it in every aspect, (visuals, soundfx and gameplay), and every time I load up the game the quality shows. It honestly makes me proud to own and still support the Atari 8-bit.

 

Anyways thanks for reading  - let the replies commence - I fully expect to see a divided response - Lemmings is rather like Marmite (you either love it or hate it!).

 

I'll leave you with a Rastaconverted image of Lemmings from another platform I did earlier this year:

 

BeebleBrox_Lemmingsbeach1.xex

 

(AND BTW I know we can never have these colours as such - (especially given Lemmings screens likely scroll vertically as well as horizontally as you can see in the Tomming's video) - just posting it for fun)...

 

...then again to a degree look at Henry's house, another fav game of mine, (albeit single screen, non scrolling):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Beeblebrox
adding more info

[+CharlieChaplin]

Afaik,

 

there is a full version of Tommingi available (still using greyscales) and it supports an ST or Amiga mouse in port B.

 

Tommingi at Fandal

Tommingi at Homesoft

 

Besides the Brundles and Tommingi there are various Lemmings clones available for the A8, here are some demos (9) and games (5):

Lemmings at Fandal

 

(Note: Lemming does not count as Lemmings clone for me, it only has a similar name.)

 

 

 

[Wrathchild]

A port of this would be nice in the interim.

 

[Beeblebrox]

@CharlieChaplin

 

Thanks for letting me know the Tommingi has a full version of the game available. Great news. I honestly thought it was only ever released as a demo and that the greyscale colours scheme, lack of music and full sfx was indicative of that. I still have the Tommingi demo disk bought in the 90's from M.D. Software.

 

Also great news Tommingi does support mouse. Again I think I tried when I booted the demo disk version earlier this year and it didn't seem to work. I have MouseSTer which works with Brundles. I'll try again with the Homesoft version.

 

As you cite on Fandal's site there are 9 x Lemmings themed demos, (so when we say demos just to confirm for those reading this - these are demos as in the context of being non games, rather than game demos). 

 

Of the actual Lemmings style games - aside Brundles and Tommingi - there apear to be 4 unique ones:

 

 Lemmings prevision

 

Lemmings by Datri:

 

 

Lemmingi:

 

Lemming:

 

Like you say the latter game, Lemming, is an entirely different game, so we can discount that.

 

Lemmings prevision I couldn't get to load in Altirra. However it looks like it might be very similar in it's approach game engine wise as Lemmings by Datri.

 

So Lemmingi I was aware of and actually I was confusing Lemmings by Datri with Lemmingi - thinking they were one in the same game - both of which I now recall I've tried playing in the past.

I found them both very hard to play.

 

Great though it is to have these others, the central point of my original topic post still stands. What with all the recent revisiting and improving of some existing titles in the last few years, as well as the momentum for completely new games, or top notch ports, it would be great to have a final definitive Lemmings that pushes the A8 in the same way PoP, Final Assault, Flob and the others I've mentioned have pushed their respective genres.

 

*****

So a definitive Lemmings that has:

• Full character animation as in Tommingi - no jerky movement. Tommingi is the only one that has done this and also has vertical and horizontal scrolling - it just lacks colour which is one of the fun aspects of a Lemming game. If I am being picky I've noticed it also lacks music and the sound effects are very rudametary.
• Full colour, employing the use of DLIs to really bring as much vibrancy into the background and foreground, (taking into account the A8's graphics limitations and being mindful of memory and cpu cycle constraints). If the latter was done levels with both vertical and horizontal scrolling might not be possible.
• Mouse control option (well implemented as good mouse control is key to good gameplay)
• A level editor (if at all possible).
• PAL/NTSC versions/detection
• The ability to turn off the music and have just the sound effects. (Much as I love the Brundles - at times the incessant music drove me crazy. (Now someone is gonna point out you can turn the music off heh heh!))

 

... and if at all possible (and for stock 64k A8 versions I suspect it wouldn't be feasible) - digitised sounds effects. (So explosions, creaks as the trapdoor opens, the legendary "let's go"). Perhaps the version could auto-detect the computer's installed RAM and load up the extra features accordingly.

 

*****

 

Whilst Brundles comes close in some aspects and Tommingi ticks the boxes moreso - (nailing the animation for example) - it is lacking the glorious colours.

 

Datri's Lemmings and also Lemmingi as far as I can tell are both like the Brundles in many respects, although the latter does it much much better than both - no offence to the creator(s) of Datri's Lemmings or Lemmingi.

 

So my reasoning for posting this topic is in keeping with the spirit and momentum that is amassing on the Atari scene for:

 

• Completely new titles with fantastic production values and gameplay
• Revisiting some existing games and improving them in many ways.
• Creating fantastic ports with fantastic production values and gameplay
   

I suppose in essence I am simply suggesting that Lemmings is one of those games that still has potential to be perfected and is a perfect candidate for "some love" as it were. As in keeping with the 3 points above it would be wonderful to see it have the same treatment as the likes of PoP - which would then ultimately showcase the A8's power yet more and add another amazing game to the A8 catalogue.

 

It's a big ask of course. But maybe there is an A8 coder Lemmings fan who agrees with me.

 

I know many will see this as unnecessary given the other versions of Lemmings listed above - which is why I've outlined the rationale above.  

Also I am not dissing the Brundles or Tommingi at all. I think they are both great. But that isn't the reasoning behind all of this.

 

In the meantime I've just literally loaded the Tommingi.xex from Homesoft into Altirra and managed to get the mouse to work - so I will enjoy the glory of fully animated Lemmings  - albeit in black and white with no music.  (Perhaps in this instance no music is a good thing) 

 

EDIT: I've just booted up the Homesoft Tommingi.XEX version on my 800XL with the MouseSTer adapter and a PC mouse and the mouse control is spot on. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Beeblebrox

[Beeblebrox]

2 minutes ago, Wrathchild said:

A port of this would be nice in the interim.

@Wrathchild  heh heh - I like it - the lemming vertical digging animation is very amusing!

 

[+CharlieChaplin]

Tommingi is not b/w it is grayscale (it has 4 grays: black, white, dark gray, light gray)...otherwise you would name Gr. 9 b/w, while it is grayscale (16 grays).

 

[Beeblebrox]

12 minutes ago, CharlieChaplin said:

Tommingi is not b/w it is greyscale (it has 4 greys: black, white, dark grey, light grey)...otherwise you would name Gr. 9 b/w, while it is greyscale (16 greys).

 

@CharlieChaplin I think I said Greyscale. If I mentioned B+w I meant 4 colour greyscale (lacking in colour) 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Beeblebrox

[+MrFish]

I think the reason Tommingi went without color is because it's a bit hard to make Lemmings look right with only 3 playfield colors. Character mode (Brundles) is what's needed (to get that important 4th playfield color), but with smooth animation of Tommingi. It's doable.

 

Tommingi could be hacked easy enough to have some decent colors though.

 

   

 

[Kr0tki]

3 hours ago, CharlieChaplin said:

Afaik,

 

there is a full version of Tommingi available (still using greyscales) and it supports an ST or Amiga mouse in port B.

 

Tommingi at Fandal

Tommingi at Homesoft

There was never a full version of "Tommingi", only a WIP demo with 7 levels. The most complete version is the two-sided disk release at Atarimania, which contains an actual ending screen, whereas the versions at Fandal and Homesoft simply loop the levels indefinitely.

 

When "Tommingi" was being previewed in the 1/1994 issue of "Świat Atari", it was supposed to be released in that year's November, with more levels, colour graphics (still 4 colours though) and digitized music by Jakub Husak.

[Beeblebrox]

7 hours ago, Kr0tki said:

There was never a full version of "Tommingi", only a WIP demo with 7 levels. The most complete version is the two-sided disk release at Atarimania, which contains an actual ending screen, whereas the versions at Fandal and Homesoft simply loop the levels indefinitely.

 

When "Tommingi" was being previewed in the 1/1994 issue of "Świat Atari", it was supposed to be released in that year's November, with more levels, colour graphics (still 4 colours though) and digitized music by Jakub Husak.

@Kr0tki  Thanks for further clarifying - I did wonder where I got the idea Tommingi wasn't a full release. (Perhaps I realised back in the 90's when I played it and realised the levels were on a loop).

 

Wow so digitized music was planned in the final release. I wonder if anything exists anywhere? 

 

Anyway - this is both bad and good news. Bad because it's a shame Tommingi wasn't completed. Good news because it means perhaps someone who loves Lemmings and wishes Tommingi had been the full deal would like to revisit and push the Lemmings genre to the max by starting a new project.

 

@MrFish Thanks for the Tommingi colour mock up. I agree hacking Tommingi is a possibility. However it still remains a WIP with limited looped levels, limited Sfx and no music.

 

I still personally think the Lemmings genre would be a great candidate for some love - a new revisit - perhaps borrowing the existing Tommingi code for the working animation (if poss with permission from the original coder). I know that you mean about the 3 colour playfield and I agree.

However I was suggesting that a coder/Lemmings fan with the skills and desire could just maybe pull out of the bag some very clever coding and play to the Atari's strengths when it comes to the colouring. Some DLIs and PMGs utilized in clever ways. I am no expert... just putting it out there.

 

We've seen the likes of Henry's House and Albert use some clever techniques and visual cheats. (I appreciate the platforms in both aforementoned games, (and in particular the enemies as well in Albert), exist on different horizontal planes for the DLI/colouring to work in that instance). I appreciate Henry's house is also a single non scrolling screen.

 

Albert does manage both vertical and horizontal scrolling elements (again I appreciate all elements on different horizontal planes for the DLis to do their thang):

 

 

L'abbayne Des Mortes is using DLIs for the stain glass windows to great effect (again I appreciate single screens, fixed level planes, no scrolling):

 

Rubber ball is quite simple but effective in it's colouring, albeit all on horizontal planes again with DLIs, but with some nice vertical scrolling:

 

However - there is one major difference and IHMO the great thing about Lemmings - which is unique to the game AFAIK. This is that unlike the majority of platformers .....there are no enemies in the game to colorise.

 

Furthermore all the Lemmings are the same colour. The control panel icons are fixed to the lower part of the screen so you could use 2 colour hi res graphics for the panel and colorise them to an extent with DLi and PMGs, (if indeed you wanted to colour them). Final Assault does this in quite a clever way:

 

 

...so does Blinky's scary school:

 

 

So I'd just be advocating being very clever with the backgound coloring and where possible the foreground colouring in the main playfield. 

 

Again what I am advocating here is a new Lemmings which pulls out all the stops in terms of gameplay in the first instance, then animation and visual effects and if possible sound effects. A Lemmings that perhaps borrows the great animation Tommingi which has proved works really well on the A8, and for which the code already exists. Memory contraints would be limiting of course but if you had 64k and 128k+ detection, and you were loading up levels from a storage medium/utilising the excellent compression techniques, etc  - you could be very clever.

 

Ultimately you potentially end up with a definitive Lemmings that showcases the A8 in the same way PoP, Flob and Final Assault does for their genres - and is a joy to play.

 

It's a big ask I know, but I feel now is the time given the momentum as evidenced by all the projects of recent years and especially now. The worst that happen from my pespective is that no-one is interested or has the time, incentives, or it simply can't be done because of the A8's graphical architecture/limitations. Fair enough - I put it out there and asked.   However I am hoping maybe there might be some interest.

 

Incidentantally, what is quite interesting is this: for anyone who might say we have enough previous versions of Lemmings - I did a search for Tetris games on Fandal. Just on the name Tetris alone there were 10 hits. That isn't including all the other versions of Tetris, (Rolltris, Stack-up, Drop-it, Thetris, Flowers mania, Detonationix, Cytriks, Getris, etc for example). So I searched on Atarimania and to my surprise I found many more.

In the end I counted no less than 45 versions of Tetris in one form or another - 45!!   I could so the same for Breakout/Arkanoid clones, (I reckon we have around at the very least 20+ BTW), and quite a few other genres and get lots of hits.

 

I know technically of course the Tetris model is far simpler to create and the 8-bit platform lends itself to the genre.

 

So that is 45 Tetris clones vs 5 x Lemmings games for the A8, (Where we have a full Lemmings game in terms of The Brundles, Datri lemmings, Lemmingi, and possibily Lemmings prevision(?), and a limited looped level incomplete version in Tommingi).

 

I suppose in some respects perhaps I should just throw down the gauntlet and say that the Atari 8-bit isn't capable of such a version of Lemmings and we should be happy with what we have......

 

............well my answer would be I seem to recall it was said the Atari 8-bit could never do a decent Prince of Persia port with bells and whistles..............or a 3D FPS with 25 frames per second...............hhhmmmm 

 

I'm off to play Flob! 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Beeblebrox

[+MrFish]

21 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Thanks for the Tommingi colour mock up. I agree hacking Tommingi is a possibility. However it still remains a WIP with limited looped levels, limited Sfx and no music.

The reason I brought it up (in spite of the game's incomplete status), is that it would be so simple to change the colors; so, why not? It's worth playing in its current state; so, it would be worth a few more plays if it had some color. 

  

21 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

...well my answer would be I seem to recall it was said the Atari 8-bit could never do Prince of Persia with bells and whistles..............or a 3D FPS with 25 frames per second...............hhhmmmm 

Who ever said those things? Certainly not anyone who knows anything about the Atari 8-bit systems.

 

[Beeblebrox]

2 minutes ago, MrFish said:

The reason I brought it up (in spite of the game's incomplete status), is that it would be so simple to change the colors; so, why not? It's worth playing in its current state; so, it would be worth a few more plays if it had some color. 

I totally agree - I would welcome Tommingi be hacked in it's current state to give it some colour - it is very playable

2 minutes ago, MrFish said:

  

Who ever said those things? Certainly not anyone who knows anything about the Atari 8-bit systems.

 

Indeed, perhaps I saw it outside of Atari circles. (I did read a post earlier this year from a 2009 posted Prince of Persia thread which said as much. I just found it again but I am not gonna name names or link to it.)

 

My point here is I was using the sentence slightly tongue in cheek as part of the gauntlet challenge sentiment....... I think many were pleasantly surprised to see how good PoP turned out running on a stock 128k or how well a 3D FPS like Final Assault running at 25 frames per second can do on 64k running on the A8. This is down to the coders and all involved pulling out all the stops.

 

 

[Kr0tki]

1 hour ago, Beeblebrox said:

Wow so digitized music was planned in the final release. I wonder if anything exists anywhere? 

I doubt any music work has been ever started, but let's ask @jhusak anyway.

[Beeblebrox]

1 minute ago, Kr0tki said:

I doubt any music work has been ever started, but let's ask @jhusak anyway.

@Kr0tki  cool - many thanks

[+MrFish]

23 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Indeed, perhaps I saw it outside of Atari circles. (I did read a post earlier this year from a 2009 posted Prince of Persia thread which said as much. I just found it again but I am not gonna name names or link to it.)

Well, talk is cheap... so people buy a lot of it.

  

23 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

My point here is I was using the sentence slightly tongue in cheek as part of the gauntlet challenge sentiment....... I think many were pleasantly surprised to see how good PoP turned out running on a stock 128k or how well a 3D FPS like Final Assault running at 25 frames per second can do on 64k running on the A8. This is down to the coders and all involved pulling out all the stops.

Really, it's more down to time (we're all working adults), and somebody having enough desire to work on it. Anybody who knows the system has a good idea of what can be done. The Apple II is certainly no graphical marvel; so, it makes perfect sense that the Atari 8-bits can go far beyond the original -- given their overall specs.

 

Anyway... the only reason why many things haven't been done on the Atari 8-bits already is because they died out in the commercial market before their time; it wasn't because they weren't a qualified machine, it was more a matter of technology and  gaming-business mechanics, which Warner was entirely unsuited to manage. Now, things move slowly because of the relatively small programmer pool that are interested in the machine; the following is quite small compared to the C64, Spectrum, etc. But that's what makes it such a fun system: all that untapped potential that's just waiting for someone to unleash.

 

[Beeblebrox]

26 minutes ago, MrFish said:

Well, talk is cheap... so people buy a lot of it.

  

@MrFish very true

Quote

Really, it's more down to time (we're all working adults), and somebody having enough desire to work on it. Anybody who knows the system has a good idea of what can be done. The Apple II is certainly no graphical marvel; so, it makes perfect sense that the Atari 8-bits can go far beyond the original -- given their overall specs.

 

Anyway... the only reason why many things haven't been done on the Atari 8-bits already is because they died out in the commercial market before their time; it wasn't because they weren't a qualified machine, it was more a matter of technology and  gaming-business mechanics, which Warner was entirely unsuited to manage. Now, things move slowly because of the relatively small programmer pool that are interested in the machine; the following is quite small compared to the C64, Spectrum, etc. But that's what makes it such a fun system: all that untapped potential that's just waiting for someone to unleash.

 

Yup I acknowledge the fact it comes down to a coder's interest, desire and incentive earlier in this thread. There may well be a limited pool of coders and talent on the A8 scene, but the talent and willing is clearly there. I wholeheartedly agree re the A8 having lots of untapped potential just waiting for someone to unleash it - which given the momentum on the scene at present with all the WIP titles (ie ADM, Giana sisters), and recently released titles so far this year, (ie Flob, PoP, Final Assault, Albert), is exactly why I posted this topic in the first place.  I think Lemmings is prime candidate.

 

Would be interested to see how many people would want an all bells and whistles revist of Lemmings that really showcases the A8?

Again it might just be me. Fair do. And nothing may come of this, which is the way it is. Doesn't hurt to put a case for it though. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Beeblebrox

[Poison]

The Brundles has the best mouse control on A8. When you boot with space, you can choose ST mouse support. In game, you can move in level left and right by arrow keys and mouse control is independent on other things. You can move with arrows and mouse together  Mouse is very fast and accurate. I like it very much. Very visionary control for 8bit game.

[Beeblebrox]

@Poison  yup, I agree Brundles mouse control is well implemented. I'll try it with arrows too on my wireless keyboard as I have a USB keyboard adapter installed in my driver 800XL.

 

Tommingi's mouse implementation is great too - having just discovered it last night after a tip earlier in this thread. I am gonna play some more Tommingi later this eve.

[Beeblebrox]

Booted up Tommingi.xex on my 800 and started playing using my MouSTer usb mouse adapter in port 2. Really responsive.

 

Weirdly though, I got to level 5 and all of a sudden the crosshair ceased to be visable... it just disappeared! 

Moving the mouse to the edges of the playfield caused the screen to move.

Very strange:

 

I will see if the same occurs running this same XEX version on my 800XL at some point. This is the first time I've had this behaviour. I've never had any issues with the MouSTer or the mouse in question.

 

Interestingly I also noticed with Tommingi that the Lemming release rate defaults to the max, although I didn't notice it slowed the release rate down when I did hit minus at any stage. Perhaps it was never enabled.

 

Whilst I had my 800 running I tried the following Lemming clones and all 3 x appeared not to support mouse control, hence I was stuck with the joystick in each case - which was rather unfortunate.

 

Lemmingi - tbh it was IMHO still pretty much unplayable with a joystick. I tried the info option at boot and unfortunately my polish is non existant so couldn't work out if there was a mouse toggle option. The general Lemming movement is quite speedy, and worse I also struggled to see the control panel and counter readouts as well as main playfield on account of everything being green and smaller:

 

Datri Lemmings and also Lemming prevision - these games appear to be running the same engine as it were and look almost identical, with the main difference that Datri Lemmings has a snowy/Christmas theme.

Better clarity with the control panel. No jerky animation. I personally still struggled with the joystick control but they are more playable than Lemmingi (IMHO).

 

               

 

In fact the main issue for all three games above - aside the apparent lack of mouse control - is that the characters are a little too small for my liking.  Assigning roles to them - being so small - you can quite make out things.

 

Finally I booted up the Brundles and played a few levels just for fun. Given it is a 3 x ATR game, it was a good opportunity to test my 800's new Incognito installation complete with ATR swap key. Worked a treat!

 

Using the arrow keys as well as the mouse is nice.  Thanks @Poison for pointing it out earlier. Brundles is easier to play because actually the character graphics mode and jerky animation gives you a little more time to react.

 

Tommingi is still the better overall for me IMHO given it is very responsive to control with the mouse, fun to play, easy to see everything because character and the playfield are bigger, and has the early makings of a true Lemmings clone for all the reasons I mentioned in earlier posts. It's also the only one with true to original Lemming animation. This is all despite the game it not being complete with colour, music, more than the basic soundfx and of course a full compliment of levels.

 

Brundles is still great fun though... although I now can't get the music out of my head. 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Beeblebrox

[Kr0tki]

6 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

Interestingly I also noticed with Tommingi that the Lemming release rate defaults to the max, although I didn't notice it slowed the release rate down when I did hit minus at any stage. Perhaps it was never enabled.

Release rate in "Tommingi" is implemented inversely compared to the Amiga original, in that the minus button increases the rate; so "0" means the highest release rate.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Kr0tki

[800XLNZ]

You guys are operating at a very high level, which bodes well for our beloved Atari 8 bit computer.

 

Carry on your sterling investigations.

[Beeblebrox]

On 11/16/2021 at 12:58 AM, Kr0tki said:

There was never a full version of "Tommingi", only a WIP demo with 7 levels. The most complete version is the two-sided disk release at Atarimania, which contains an actual ending screen, whereas the versions at Fandal and Homesoft simply loop the levels indefinitely.

 

When "Tommingi" was being previewed in the 1/1994 issue of "Świat Atari", it was supposed to be released in that year's November, with more levels, colour graphics (still 4 colours though) and digitized music by Jakub Husak.

@Kr0tki  thanks for sharing the magazine link. My Polish language skills are non-existent but it's fantastic to see the article in print (albeit digital ), and a glipse of Tommingi as it was intended at the time  It's quite a beefy article.

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Beeblebrox

[ivop]

On 11/15/2021 at 8:09 PM, Beeblebrox said:

Unfortunately one of the horrible things about the Sega Master system version with a game like Lemmings - which requires precision control of a cross hair - is that it is absolutely horrible to control on a joypad, (IMHO)! So when I had the chance to play it with a mouse on subsequent systems it was a whole new experience and joy to play.

This year I have completed the SNES version, and I was actually surprised how well the controller worked Was a bit disappointed that it stopped after 30 levels.

[+MrFish]

On 11/15/2021 at 6:59 PM, MrFish said:

I think the reason Tommingi went without color is because it's a bit hard to make Lemmings look right with only 3 playfield colors. Character mode (Brundles) is what's needed (to get that important 4th playfield color), but with smooth animation of Tommingi. It's doable.

 

Tommingi could be hacked easy enough to have some decent colors though.

 

   

 

 

Here's the green & blue color scheme.

 

Tommingi ntsc.xex

 

Tommingi pal.xex

 

 

[Kr0tki]

3 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

My Polish language skills are non-existent

Well, you are not missing much. What I quoted is about as much valuable information as there is in the whole article - the rest is one half a blatant self-serving autopromotion, another half a manual on how to play Lemmings. "Świat Atari" was literally the publishing arm of Mirage Software, with the company's founder being the magazine's editor-in-chief. Mirage tended to use the magazine for drumming up the hype for the games they released, and this article is no exception.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Kr0tki