Lemmings - on my wishlist for a future revisit for the A8

[Kr0tki]

3 hours ago, ivop said:

Was a bit disappointed that it stopped after 30 levels.

Wha? I haven't played it, but this seemingly in-depth website claims the SNES version has 125 levels.

[+MrFish]

Here are some more color variations.

 

With the blue-green NTSC scheme, I lightened the green a little; the PAL version of it stayed the same.

 

Tommingi beige ntsc.xex

Tommingi beige pal.xex

 

Tommingi blue-beige ntsc.xex

Tommingi blue-beige pal.xex

 

Tommingi blue-green ntsc.xex

Tommingi blue-green pal.xex

 

[ivop]

42 minutes ago, Kr0tki said:

Wha? I haven't played it, but this seemingly in-depth website claims the SNES version has 125 levels.

That's four times the same levels (4*30=120) with different requirements, plus 5 extra levels apparently after that? Not sure. But I understand that 30 different levels was already pretty good on a cartridge.

 

Edit: And I was probably mistaken about previous versions I played (Atari ST, Amiga) BITD having more levels. It's 30 levels at different difficulties. Perhaps I'll replay it at a higher setting.

Edited November 19, 2021 by ivop

[+Philsan]

This version from Homesoft has joystick and mouse control at the same time

 

 

[Kr0tki]

14 minutes ago, ivop said:

That's four times the same levels (4*30=120) with different requirements, plus 5 extra levels apparently after that? Not sure. But I understand that 30 different levels was already pretty good on a cartridge.

 

Edit: And I was probably mistaken about previous versions I played (Atari ST, Amiga) BITD having more levels. It's 30 levels at different difficulties. Perhaps I'll replay it at a higher setting.

While there is some level layout reuse between different difficulties, most of the levels are unique - you cannot simply state it's four times the same levels.

[+MrFish]

28 minutes ago, Philsan said:

This version from Homesoft has joystick and mouse control at the same time.

 

Nice... I should be hacking this version instead...

 

[Beeblebrox]

42 minutes ago, MrFish said:

Here are some more color variations.

 

With the blue-green NTSC scheme, I lighted the green a little; the PAL version of it stayed the same.

 

Tommingi beige ntsc.xex 35.91 kB · 2 downloads

Tommingi beige pal.xex 35.91 kB · 1 download

 

Tommingi blue-beige ntsc.xex 35.91 kB · 2 downloads

Tommingi blue-beige pal.xex 35.91 kB · 1 download

 

Tommingi blue-green ntsc.xex 35.91 kB · 2 downloads

Tommingi blue-green pal.xex 35.91 kB · 2 downloads

 

@MrFish  hey, nice tweaks - thanks. I think I like the beige initially and blue/green the best. Certainly brightens up things visually from the original greyscale:

 

    

 

Next perhaps:

 

(just kiddin)

Edited November 19, 2021 by Beeblebrox

[Kr0tki]

32 minutes ago, Philsan said:

This version from Homesoft has joystick and mouse control at the same time

Huh? All versions have it.

[+Philsan]

7 minutes ago, Kr0tki said:

Huh? All versions have it.

 

12 minutes ago, MrFish said:

 

Nice... I should be hacking this version instead...

 

Sorry, I didn't notice that original version has mouse control.

[+MrFish]

11 minutes ago, Kr0tki said:

Huh? All versions have it.

Good! No rehacking necessary.

 

[ivop]

38 minutes ago, Kr0tki said:

While there is some level layout reuse between different difficulties, most of the levels are unique - you cannot simply state it's four times the same levels.

Okay, I'll replay it after I'm done with Avatar: Legend of Aang on the PS2   Must be mistaken about the difficulty level then?

[+CharlieChaplin]

Well, here is the Tommingi version I have. Think that the only difference to other fileversions (e.g. from Homesoft) is the memory layout which is using $2000-B426, RUN $Bxxx. Other than that, I guess it is still the preview version with just 7 levels, like Krotki pointed out. I do not remember where I got or downloaded this version from.

 

If there are more than 7 levels (I don't think so!), then I simply was not able to test this - while levels 1-3 are easy, I needed approx. 20 tries to solve level 4 and have not solved level 5 yet (with approx. 50 tries). I always end up with 14 Lemmings / Tommingis, while I have to rescue 15 in level 5.

 

@MrFish: Maybe you can create a blue-green PAL and NTSC version from my attached file ? This is the colour combination I like the most.

 

Note: I was so evil to add a Basic-off switch (segment $0400-0447), a Reset=Coldstart routine ($0244-0244) and a Gr. 2 title ($0600-0668, currently this just displays "LOADING" but can be changed to "TOMMINGI" or "* TOMMINGI *" easily).

 

TOMMINGI.xex

[Beeblebrox]

@MrFish One thing I did notice that as pointed out earlier by Poison, in Brundles you can use the mouse to move the crosshair and use the A8's arrows to move the screen independently of each other simultaneously. In Tommingi the arrow keys move the crosshair as well as the mouse/joystick. However you can't use keyboard arrows and the mouse independantly at the same time in Tommingi - arrows just move the crosshair. Would be great to have the same functionality as in Brundles as using mouse and keyboard really woiuld help the control and gaming experience. Wonder how easy a hack that is in Tommingi?  Just curious. 

 

Really appreciate your efforts btw.

 

Also - may or may not be possible but doesn't hurt to ask - would it be technically possible to have the lower icon panel interface with a different background colour - perhaps using DLIs?

 

So like this (ignoring the black around icons in the mockup - that's just because I used the replace colour function quickly in Irfanview for the original black background):

 

 

I am assuming if you could it would only be the background in this area you could change and not the colours of the other 3 in this area?

Edited November 20, 2021 by Beeblebrox

[+MrFish]

3 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

Also - may or may not be possible but doesn't hurt to ask - would it be technically possible to have the lower icon panel interface with a different background colour - perhaps using DLIs?

Anything's possible -- within the limits of the machine. It might not look too bad; but I'm not interested in going that far with it.

 

Having said that, here's another version, with some more changes.

 

1. Colors adjusted for a better match between PAL/NTSC.

2. Font height shortened by one pixel.

3. Cursor colors and shapes changed.

4. Highlight color changed.

 

 

 

Tommingi (Blue-Green) [PAL] v1.0.xex

 

Tommingi (Blue-Green) [NTSC] v1.0.xex

 

[+MrFish]

10 hours ago, CharlieChaplin said:

Well, here is the Tommingi version I have. Think that the only difference to other fileversions (e.g. from Homesoft) is the memory layout which is using $2000-B426, RUN $Bxxx. Other than that, I guess it is still the preview version with just 7 levels, like Krotki pointed out. I do not remember where I got or downloaded this version from.

 

@MrFish: Maybe you can create a blue-green PAL and NTSC version from my attached file ? This is the colour combination I like the most.

 

Note: I was so evil to add a Basic-off switch (segment $0400-0447), a Reset=Coldstart routine ($0244-0244) and a Gr. 2 title ($0600-0668, currently this just displays "LOADING" but can be changed to "TOMMINGI" or "* TOMMINGI *" easily).

 

So, the memory layout is making it compatible with some DOS, which isn't compatible with the ones I've posted; or it's more about the tweaks you've done that you want to retain?

 

[miker]

10 hours ago, CharlieChaplin said:

Note: I was so evil to add a Basic-off switch (segment $0400-0447), a Reset=Coldstart routine ($0244-0244) and a Gr. 2 title ($0600-0668, currently this just displays "LOADING" but can be changed to "TOMMINGI" or "* TOMMINGI *" easily).

Why it is located like that? Adding this piece you preventing it from loading form tape. Better kick it to address $480 (more safe). And why the heck booting with BASIC turned on by default???  

[Beeblebrox]

2 hours ago, MrFish said:

Anything's possible -- within the limits of the machine. It might not look too bad; but I'm not interested in going that far with it.

 

Having said that, here's another version, with some more changes.

 

1. Colors adjusted for a better match between PAL/NTSC.

2. Font height shortened by one pixel.

3. Cursor colors and shapes changed.

4. Highlight color changed.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, MrFish said:

Tommingi (Blue-Green) [PAL] v1.0.xex 35.91 kB · 1 download

 

Tommingi (Blue-Green) [NTSC] v1.0.xex 35.91 kB · 1 download

 

 

Quote:It might not look too bad; but I'm not interested in going that far with it.

 

@MrFish  Fair do. If it's possible to do then that bodes well for any future colourful screen version of Lemmings.

 

Many thanks for the extra refinements.

I really like the slightly smaller font - definitely easier to read, especially when one if highlighted. The counter number was everso slightly too big for the highlighted box before. It also works better to have a darker highlight frame given the counter number text is bright. Thanks 

 

IMHO I think I probably prefer the thinner crosshairs in the stock version  - but thanks for tweaking. Others may prefer the revised ones. 

 

I've done a side by side comparrison so people can see the subtle differences:

Left old, right new.

[+MrFish]

4 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

IMHO I think I probably prefer the thinner crosshairs in the stock version  - but thanks for tweaking. Others may prefer the revised ones. 

 

I liked the shape of the old crosshair too. It looks fine on the black background; but the problem was that it too easily disappeared when it was over a lot of the terrain graphics -- even when rendered in the new color. It ended up being detrimental to my gameplay. So, my point here was to get something that could standout from the background better.

 

[Beeblebrox]

57 minutes ago, MrFish said:

 

I liked the shape of the old crosshair too. It looks fine on the black background; but the problem was that it too easily disappeared when it was over a lot of the terrain graphics -- even when rendered in the new color. It ended up being detrimental to my gameplay. So, my point here was to get something that could standout from the background better.

 

@MrFish yup, see your point. Will give it a go. 

[+MrFish]

7 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

I really like the slightly smaller font - definitely easier to read, especially when one if highlighted. The counter number was everso slightly too big for the highlighted box before. It also works better to have a darker highlight frame given the counter number text is bright.

The control panel is a bit of a tough design, as he's gone with using the mini overview (left off of Brundles and the other versions).

 

A quick assessment here, the control panel could be configured like this, and take up the exact same amount of space.

 

 

[Beeblebrox]

25 minutes ago, MrFish said:

The control panel is a bit of a tough design, as he's gone with using the mini overview (left off of Brundles and the other versions).

 

A quick assessment here, the control panel could be configured like this, and take up the exact same amount of space.

 

 

@MrFish oo I like it. 

[Beeblebrox]

@MrFish btw the only thing left off all of the A8 Lemmings clones is a fast forward option.

[+CharlieChaplin]

13 hours ago, miker said:

Why it is located like that? Adding this piece you preventing it from loading form tape. Better kick it to address $480 (more safe). And why the heck booting with BASIC turned on by default???  

 

Ermmm well, the file originally was monolithic (just one data segment $2000-B426 and a RUN adress $Bxxx) and afaik, it did NOT switch off Basic automatically, that's why I added the Basic-off switch. I am no programmer and therefore the Basic-off switch was done by Fandal for me (it does several things at once: a) switches off Basic, b) clears RAM under Basic and c) clears zero page), as soon as it has been executed, page 4 is available again. Besides, I am using Atari 800XL with original XL-OS Rev. 2 and there it is standard (as with most XL/XE computers with built-in Atari Basic and standard OS) that if you do not boot with Option key held down, then Basic is on by default (Atari's decision, not mine).

 

Regarding tape loading - it is 2021 (soon 2022) and I do not care that much anymore for loading XEX files from tape, guess there are very few A8 users that are still loading programs from tape. On the other hand, it is very easy to get the monolithic file back again, just remove the three segments $0400-0447 (Init $0400), $0244-0244, $0600-0668 (Init $0600) with e.g. Superpacker. But then you either have to disable Basic manually (e.g. hold down the Option key, disable Basic in U1MB menu, etc.) or use an alternative OS with inverse Basic (Basic = off by default).

 

The Homesoft fileversion of Tommingi is using page 1, so it will most-likely not work with Hias Hi-OS and Pokey divisor zero for example, since Hias Hi-OS also uses page 1 (but I did not test this)...

 

[+CharlieChaplin]

13 hours ago, MrFish said:

 

So, the memory layout is making it compatible with some DOS, which isn't compatible with the ones I've posted; or it's more about the tweaks you've done that you want to retain?

 

 

Yep, this fileversion is monolithic (just one data segment $2000-B426) and DOS 2 friendly (using start adress $2000), meaning it will work under almost every DOS 2.x version. Attached the monolithic fileversion again (same as above, but without Basic-off switch, etc.). The Homesoft version you posted has a start adress of $0B00, so it will overwrite most DOS 2.x versions and must be loaded from a gamedos or bootloader (or 3-sector-DOS). And as said before, the Homesoft version uses page 1...

 

Maybe you can do the same changes/patches with my monolithic and DOS 2 friendly version ?

 

TOMMINGI_monolithic_DOS2friendly.xex

[+MrFish]

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